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Old 04-02-2013, 14:29
dmbesotted
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Clydesdales -

What a great spot this was

http://screen.yahoo.com/brotherhood-...173010089.html
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Old 04-02-2013, 14:29
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My thought when I read and posted it was that MC has said playing DM as this 'vile' character has been liberating. It has allowed him to be outside the persona that made him famous (or infamous) and outside his own need to be liked.

Re Aspergers: I also do not want to think of this diagnosis when I see DM. There are enough chinks in the armour to show that there is a humanistic side to the character. I always feel that his relationship with the villagers has to do with his immersion in education and medicine and their nearly total lack of respect (?) for that and unwillingness/inability to follow simple medical directions.

I am in the non-Asperber's point of view, as well. For one thing, if he doesn't have Asperger's who he is is much more complex and fascinating to me. The emotional damage he suffered in his life which turned him so inside interests me more than he is on the Autistic Spectrum. Also, he has much more capacity for self-analysis and change, of course, not being Asperger's, and can grow here and there to salvage his relationship with Louisa and continue to be the best dad he can be.

I want the to see his own mind and emotions and not his diagnosed mind and emotions.
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Old 04-02-2013, 14:30
mmDerdekea
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Mona,
Jack Lothian's contact details are on this website:

http://www.curtisbrown.co.uk/jack-lothian//works/

He is also on twitter if you have access to that.
I work better in person, actually! (And, no, definitely not on twitter).

I'm sure many fans have contacted him already, don't you think?
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Old 04-02-2013, 14:54
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I am in the non-Asperber's point of view, as well. For one thing, if he doesn't have Asperger's who he is is much more complex and fascinating to me. The emotional damage he suffered in his life which turned him so inside interests me more than he is on the Autistic Spectrum. Also, he has much more capacity for self-analysis and change, of course, not being Asperger's, and can grow here and there to salvage his relationship with Louisa and continue to be the best dad he can be.

I want the to see his own mind and emotions and not his diagnosed mind and emotions.
Actually, I think what is noteworthy is that an Aspergers site devoted time to the character and his behavior. And at least in their mind, based on DSM criteria, DM is easily slotted.

I like your last comment here. I prefer to think he's just crabby and frustrated and that his vile parenting had the most effect.
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Old 04-02-2013, 14:54
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I work better in person, actually! (And, no, definitely not on twitter).

I'm sure many fans have contacted him already, don't you think?
ACtually, someone from the forum has contacted him, as S5 was airing and he said something like he hoped the ending would be satisfactory. He was responsive -- and I can't remember who it was who contacted him or how. I think he might have a blog?
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Old 04-02-2013, 15:07
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ACtually, someone from the forum has contacted him, as S5 was airing and he said something like he hoped the ending would be satisfactory. He was responsive -- and I can't remember who it was who contacted him or how. I think he might have a blog?
He contacted me via YouTube after I uploaded Boho with a Shotgun. He was anxious to read what fans thought about the episode and to also correct me about the title. Born vs. Boho.
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Old 04-02-2013, 15:17
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I am in the non-Asperber's point of view, as well. For one thing, if he doesn't have Asperger's who he is is much more complex and fascinating to me. The emotional damage he suffered in his life which turned him so inside interests me more than he is on the Autistic Spectrum. Also, he has much more capacity for self-analysis and change, of course, not being Asperger's, and can grow here and there to salvage his relationship with Louisa and continue to be the best dad he can be.

I want the to see his own mind and emotions and not his diagnosed mind and emotions.
As Dominic Minghella put it, "in real life, there is rarely the clarity of diagnosis." That may not apply to physical medicine, but psychiatric diagnosis rarely has physical markers (e.g. a blood test) and for all the effort that has gone into systematizing diagnostic criteria in the various DSM manuals, diagnosing a psychiatric condition is almost as much art as science. Some conditions become over-diagnosed, for a variety of reasons. ADHD (imo) is in this category (and DM was quite right not to apply that label to the misbehaving child in his practice). And possibly Asperger's as well.

Practitioners vary widely in their experience, skill, and willingness to apply diagnostic labels. Where one might apply a bipolar label as soon as there is evidence of a first manic episode, another might wait a year or more to see what further develops (appropriately medicating the manic episode, hopefully).

There is a lot of variation among people on the Autism Spectrum (the new DSM will apparently do away with the AsPerger's diagnosis and fold it into the Autism spectrum category, much to the unhappiness of the Asperger's community) and even more important, a diagnosis of Asperger's does not necessarily go a long way towards understanding a person's emotions, motivations, or even fully their developmental history.

But Minghella does say both things: that he deliberately gave DM "signs" of Asperger's, modeled after people close to him, but that he then left it ambiguous so that wouldn't become the focus of the character. i guess now the most interesting thing to me is why he made that original choice. Certainly far more people than just those on the blog recently cited have made the Asperger's connection, as it was deliberately put out there, it seems.
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Old 04-02-2013, 15:51
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Martin Clunes has said explicitly (somewhere) that he is NOT playing DM as someone with Asperger's.

Or not intentionally, anyway. It was a surprise to him when people complimented him for portraying a person with Asperger's so well. Which makes me wonder, a bit, about the communication between him and Dominic M.

Perhaps we can interpret the Asperger's diagnosis by the odious Oakwood and DM's scorn, as MC's rebuttal to this notion? How can anyone think DM is such when the diagnosis is delivered by such a buffoon?
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Old 04-02-2013, 16:26
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The big question..

Which came first - DM thinking about leaving the practice or Edith?

On film, he meets Edith before he speaks to Chris Parsons, however, Edith has not yet paid her visit to the surgery and made all of her snide comments. So, did his initial meeting with Edith solidify his already present thoughts or did it put the thought into his mind.
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Old 04-02-2013, 16:49
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Martin Clunes has said explicitly (somewhere) that he is NOT playing DM as someone with Asperger's.

Or not intentionally, anyway. It was a surprise to him when people complimented him for portraying a person with Asperger's so well. Which makes me wonder, a bit, about the communication between him and Dominic M.

Perhaps we can interpret the Asperger's diagnosis by the odious Oakwood and DM's scorn, as MC's rebuttal to this notion? How can anyone think DM is such when the diagnosis is delivered by such a buffoon?
There was an interview (which I can't pinpoint right now) in which MC said something about Asperger's along the lines that he didn't want "to diagnose" DM because that would be too easy and he wanted to avoid possibly "fixing" him, I think.
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Old 04-02-2013, 16:52
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The big question..

Which came first - DM thinking about leaving the practice or Edith?

On film, he meets Edith before he speaks to Chris Parsons, however, Edith has not yet paid her visit to the surgery and made all of her snide comments. So, did his initial meeting with Edith solidify his already present thoughts or did it put the thought into his mind.
I think he's been considering it ever since Louisa left. There's nothing left for him in Portwenn. Surely he's grieving and often grieving people want to get away from reminders. Of course, that adds another question. When exactly did Louisa leave? Right after the failed wedding? A couple of months later? Obviously it was before she knew she might be pregnant. Well, maybe not. Certainly before there were any outward signs.
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Old 04-02-2013, 17:34
dmbesotted
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The big question..

Which came first - DM thinking about leaving the practice or Edith?

On film, he meets Edith before he speaks to Chris Parsons, however, Edith has not yet paid her visit to the surgery and made all of her snide comments. So, did his initial meeting with Edith solidify his already present thoughts or did it put the thought into his mind.
OOOps, Edith does pay her 1st snarky visit to the surgery before the discussion with Chris Parsons.

I still have the same question though. Another major ambiguity.
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Old 04-02-2013, 17:34
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I think he's been considering it ever since Louisa left. There's nothing left for him in Portwenn. Surely he's grieving and often grieving people want to get away from reminders. Of course, that adds another question. When exactly did Louisa leave? Right after the failed wedding? A couple of months later? Obviously it was before she knew she might be pregnant. Well, maybe not. Certainly before there were any outward signs.
Remember, the opening of this episode features him half-running down the street with a bag of dripping "parts" which he seems to be using in order to overcome his phobia.

So I think he was already thinking of leaving before he encountered Edith. And no wonder, poor man.
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Old 04-02-2013, 18:50
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I think leaving it to the viewer's imagination sounds right. Any good story or piece of literature begs the question of the reader/viewer: "How does this relate to you, the reader/viewer?" That's why we love to talk about this series so much!

To me, I don't care which it is, AS or not, or whether it is a combination of both. Either way there is still a compelling story being told and even more compelling possibilities for stories to come, I think.

But I do shy away from the Asperger's diagnosis because putting a label on Doc worries me that it becomes the story of the syndrome, not the story of people having to figure out life and love. That might be part of Dominic's point, as well.
I think this is closest to my POV. Thank you.
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Old 04-02-2013, 18:55
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I love the question! (Questions brought up on this forum always help me to take another close look and formulate a response that I enjoy putting into words, rather than just going with the feeling I got.)

The look I would describe as "guarded" and a bit of "taking the measure of" and "polite".

Guarded-- even as he came through the door into his office after her as he saw the look on her face in the waiting room regarding the turmoil there. Oh, and maybe a bit chagrined because she saw it.
More guarded--due to "do they pay you in chickens" followed by
Taking the measure of the situation-- in his mind: "so that's how she's going to be"
Polite, but guarded-- "just passing?"
Polite, but with a bit of intimacy--"I see you still like impractical footwear"
More guarded, taking the measure of--"What were you doing in Truro?"
Guarded, but polite inquiry with a bit of intimacy--"Married?"
Professional demeanor--"Isn't it customary to write a letter...."
More bigtime guarded--"Are you trying to diagnose me?"

I do love Edith's line about "Then I couldn't poke around in your underwear drawer." reflecting a bit of intimacy from their previous relationship, perhaps, just like his footwear remark. Just brilliant how those two small references set the stage regarding their previous relationship!

And at the end after she leaves, he seems a bit chagrined or perhaps even a bit embarrassed about the interaction and/or maybe about his situation.
Yes excellent "show don't tell" writing that respects the viewer's intelligence while allowing them to create a back story themselves.
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Old 04-02-2013, 19:07
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Doc Martin writers

I was surprised to see a rather youngish looking Jack Lothian - my mind's eye had him more mature

I found this when looking for info on Richard Stoneman. It is not about Doc Martin but has similarities to some comments by Dominic Minghella.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama/sorted/ep...3_writer.shtml
I find this fascinating and don't think we'll get a more comprehensive reply from anyone.
Dominic Minghella has written the overall series architecture.
The writers go with that yo write an episode perhaps saying they're in a pub.
Producers say it has to be a party. Writer of ep does another draft.
All the important people (in DMs case it sounds as if they let the major actors like MC and CC who supposedly know their characters) brainstorm over the dialogue to ensure humour and character continuity. writer goes back and redrafts. Checked again and voila you have an ep.

Possibly this is where some of the over the top behaviours have snuck in because so many people have input and the producers ultimately override the writers (unless the writers are stubborn) and a few inconsistencies get past.
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Old 04-02-2013, 19:12
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I think you are determined that he not have Asperger's for the completely sensible reason that once that is explicit, then all or almost all of his behavior gets dismissed or summed up as, oh well, that's an Asperger's for you.

Which would make watching and discussing the series much less fun, as well as unfair to DM and to those who actually are on this spectrum.

I do think that Louisa is capable sooner or later of seeing that the very qualities she loves in him --- see speech in taxi -- are ones that also frustrate her and that she is going to need to coach him in how to respond to her as well as apply large doses of tolerance.
Yes. Great. I hope LG gets her series 1 & 2 sense of humour back too.
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Old 04-02-2013, 19:20
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I work better in person, actually! (And, no, definitely not on twitter).

I'm sure many fans have contacted him already, don't you think?
Mad other also contacted him on twitter regarding the Buddha which he said he knew nothing about (leads me to believe, now, that is either the producers or props people).

Lothian seems very ameniable to contact. He likes feedback on his writing - although he was obviously upset by the response to the finale of s3!!

Anyone on twitter is fair game! You'd just have to gauge their response.

How were you intending to get a face to face interview with him? That might be a challenge as it would be time consuming for him whereas email or twitter can be responded to in odd spare moments at his own convenience.
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Old 04-02-2013, 22:32
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I think he's been considering it ever since Louisa left. There's nothing left for him in Portwenn. Surely he's grieving and often grieving people want to get away from reminders. Of course, that adds another question. When exactly did Louisa leave? Right after the failed wedding? A couple of months later? Obviously it was before she knew she might be pregnant. Well, maybe not. Certainly before there were any outward signs.
I dont think he cared one way or the other about Edith enough that she could have influenced his decision. Remember that he was working on the phobia at the beginning of the first episode. He had managed quite well as a GP with the phobia and had Pauline in place to handle most of the blood issues. Once Louisa left he had no desire to stay in Portwenn. Even having AJ there couldn't overcome the lump in his throat any time he saw a dark haired ponytail swinging anywhere near the school.

As far as when Louisa left, here's an interesting theory. I have been reading the old forum posts and looking at the ones now from when they were filming S4. About the only thing they knew for sure at that point was that Louisa was pregnant. One theory put out there was that she informed him of the pregnancy in her note to him that she tried to leave on the wedding day. Their thought was that she decided when up on the hill and having the conversation about Martin being the godfather. She figured if he didn't want to be a godfather (her interpretation), then how could he be a father?

This has made me think. We know that she didn't reveal the pregnancy in the letter, but wasn't it about 3 1/2 - 4 weeks from the engagement night to the wedding? So, wouldn't that have been enough time for her to realize that her period was late and take a test? (I think you can take those tests that early?). Maybe she found out the night before the wedding or even that morning - that could explain her kind of being all over the place emotionally. So during the godfather discussion maybe she decided that he wouldn't make a good father so she bailed out of the wedding and left pretty quickly for London to make decisions about her life? Just a theory
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Old 04-02-2013, 22:32
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Must admit, I stuggle to think what exactly Dominic Minghella is (or should be) credited with !! What did he do?? Wasnt he (just) a writer initially? IMO he is a bit creepy and trying at living off the name!! x Personally dont rate him x
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Old 04-02-2013, 22:56
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I dont think he cared one way or the other about Edith enough that she could have influenced his decision. Remember that he was working on the phobia at the beginning of the first episode. He had managed quite well as a GP with the phobia and had Pauline in place to handle most of the blood issues. Once Louisa left he had no desire to stay in Portwenn. Even having AJ there couldn't overcome the lump in his throat any time he saw a dark haired ponytail swinging anywhere near the school.

As far as when Louisa left, here's an interesting theory. I have been reading the old forum posts and looking at the ones now from when they were filming S4. About the only thing they knew for sure at that point was that Louisa was pregnant. One theory put out there was that she informed him of the pregnancy in her note to him that she tried to leave on the wedding day. Their thought was that she decided when up on the hill and having the conversation about Martin being the godfather. She figured if he didn't want to be a godfather (her interpretation), then how could he be a father?

This has made me think. We know that she didn't reveal the pregnancy in the letter, but wasn't it about 3 1/2 - 4 weeks from the engagement night to the wedding? So, wouldn't that have been enough time for her to realize that her period was late and take a test? (I think you can take those tests that early?). Maybe she found out the night before the wedding or even that morning - that could explain her kind of being all over the place emotionally. So during the godfather discussion maybe she decided that he wouldn't make a good father so she bailed out of the wedding and left pretty quickly for London to make decisions about her life? Just a theory
In support of your theory, ShopGirl, remember that the time she really lost her temper at her friends sitting on the patio was when they started joking about DM being a father -- Pauline saying, essentially, "him warm and caring ..right!"

I can't imagine that she wrote that she was pregnant in the letter. But maybe she knew or strongly suspected when she left town?
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Old 04-02-2013, 23:38
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Must admit, I stuggle to think what exactly Dominic Minghella is (or should be) credited with !! What did he do?? Wasnt he (just) a writer initially? IMO he is a bit creepy and trying at living off the name!! x Personally dont rate him x
Why ever in the world would you make such remarks? especially if you've been reading this forum!
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Old 04-02-2013, 23:49
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Yes excellent "show don't tell" writing that respects the viewer's intelligence while allowing them to create a back story themselves.
Xactly!!! Thanks, and I like your ""show don't tell" writing" naming.

I found it quite a fun exercise to keep looking and stopping at literally almost second to second shots to see the expressions and figure out how it translated, at least to me.

Sometimes in watching the fan videos on YT, I've seen things that I didn't really see in the original viewing (or many subsequent viewings, either). Of course, some of the slow motion work or still shots used in them helped in that respect also. So much fun!!
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Old 05-02-2013, 00:08
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I bet MC would Love this Clydesdale Super Bowl commercial!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPG7P...e_gdata_player
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Old 05-02-2013, 00:11
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Why ever in the world would you make such remarks? especially if you've been reading this forum!
The fact that I have very much been reading this forum made me make such a remark !! because I, personally, dont rate the guy and think he is a bit of a phoney and living off his name!!!! IMO!! cant in my wildest dreams imagine why anyone would credit him with anything to with the sucess of DM!! What did he do???
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