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Doc Martin (Part 14 Spoilers)


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Old 24-10-2012, 16:24
NewPark
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I absolutely agree the "Big Boy" line to Mark was mean and gratuitous.
I wonder what anybody thinks about the idea that men sometimes speak to each other in a teasing fashion that strikes us as women (most of here,I think) as overly-mean and too direct?

I heard it as a mean comment but also as a bit of male-speak, and not really unique to the Doc Martins of this world
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Old 24-10-2012, 17:05
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I wonder what anybody thinks about the idea that men sometimes speak to each other in a teasing fashion that strikes us as women (most of here,I think) as overly-mean and too direct?

I heard it as a mean comment but also as a bit of male-speak, and not really unique to the Doc Martins of this world
No question that there is locker room talk and bravado all the time.

BUT, in this case, DM knew how vulnerable Mark felt. Locker room banter works when it's two guys giving and getting in equal measure. In this case, DM, who we haven't seen participate in much male bonding, suddenly hits Mark where it counts, so to speak.

I think the writer went for the quick joke instead of paying attention to the character delivering it.
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Old 24-10-2012, 18:15
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No question that there is locker room talk and bravado all the time.

BUT, in this case, DM knew how vulnerable Mark felt. Locker room banter works when it's two guys giving and getting in equal measure. In this case, DM, who we haven't seen participate in much male bonding, suddenly hits Mark where it counts, so to speak.

I think the writer went for the quick joke instead of paying attention to the character delivering it.
Yes, I think you're right. Not a big guy for male bonding, is he.
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Old 24-10-2012, 19:57
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I agree.

Here's my problem. I thought the Doc Martin I saw in Series 1, even though I hated any episode with Elaine, had charm, disdain, vulnerability, arrogance, humor, lack of humor -- was, in short, a complex individual and I cared about seeing how he adapted and grew -- and developed a relationship with Louisa. Same with Series 2 -- and even better because Elaine was gone.

Then, if I am right, Dominic Minghella left and the Doc Martin character became shriller, the relationship with Louisa and the village much less nuanced.

But if I am correct, Dominic Minghella would never have gotten DM and LG together -- so I am left with the relationship going nowhere or the Doc Martin character morphing into something less interesting.

Dare I hope that in Series 6 they find their way back to a balance? That the powers that be realize that constantly writing roadblocks and disasters for a couple ultimately leaves the viewer thinking not "will they-won't they" -- but instead "who cares."
But, as you know, they still aren't together! So what is missing is Dominic Minghella's writing. Not every one of his episodes are fantastic but they somehow bring out some part of DM that we admire, or like or wish for Louisa.

I think NewParks post above is spot on. MC ability to draw every emotion from us the viewer is amazing. Just those almost tears when he was talking to AJ after LG broke up with him! I really felt sorry for him, despite the fact that he brought it all upon himself!

Others have written great episodes getting empathy from the viewer for DM so I am sure they can get back to that great vibe we had in in s1-s.
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Old 24-10-2012, 20:06
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Right on, book fan. Exactly how I process this. I also found the Doc and S5 overall sad and stuck, resigned to his fate. How joyless! How depressing! It also seemed to me overall this series also was literally darker in terms of how it was shot - mirroring the melancholy. I hope BP recognizes its mistake and remedies it in S6. We could use the skillfull Minghella writing, a plot that shows growth and hope without compromising the characters, and acting that uses the whole keyboard without just pounding on the lower keys.
Well said. Wish I had seen it before I posted the above post written in the middle of the night but only just posted!
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Old 24-10-2012, 21:25
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I want to preface this by saying that I have not been able to watch any DM for a couple of months, and I haven't watched S5 for even longer than that, so I am writing from memory here.

I liked Louisa's character a lot in series 4. She made a lot of mistakes, but always managed to pull herself up and keep going. The Doc didn't invite her in, she figured out a plan B and went to the pub. The Head Master didn't really want to hire her, she didn't back down and she got the job. She didn't have a place to live, she found the old man's house. She couldn't afford the repairs, she reached out to Al. She stood up to Edith a little bit, even when she was vulnerable as her patient. She swallowed her pride and reached out to Martin when she needed medical advice. She stood up to him when he questioned her abilities. She was strong and vulnerable at the same time, I guess you could say her character was more nuanced. We didn't see much of that in series 5. I'm not talking about her mistakes at the school, I can accept that aspect of her character - that she was overwhelmed going back to work.
.

I hated the way the Doc treated Louisa in series 4, but underneath it, when he was in private or with Joan, I saw the vulnerability and caring. I liked the Doc in S5, too, in the first few episodes. He was trying to sort things out in his mind about his childhood, his father and his future. But I have the same type of problem with that as I have with Louisa's character in that series. I am not sure that all that angst had to dictate so much of his character. He's been independent of his family for a long time. I think they dragged it out a few episodes too long, and we didn't see any progress in his coming to grips with these issues until the very end of the series. But I think on the whole, S5 was kinder to the Doc than it was to Louisa. They let her turn shrill, incompetent, and infantilized her, while they had him become distant and withdrawn and sometimes mean. On the whole, what they did with the Doc's character bugged me less than what they did with Louisa.
DCMCFAN, I hope you are doing OK and whatever is keeping you from watching DM is not too much of a hindrance in other areas as well.

I agree that S5 actually treated Louisa worse than DM. There's a certain sense in which sometimes I thought that the seeming withdrawness of DM was his way of trying to restrain himself as he recognized that Louisa was not yet quite herself and that he didn't know how to proceed without provoking her, yet at the same time, all of his buttons were being pushed by the chaos of living with a newborn.

But they sure didn't present her as the same woman she was in S4.
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Old 24-10-2012, 22:08
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I absolutely agree the "Big Boy" line to Mark was mean and gratuitous.
Mean or not, recall that the "meds" Mylow bought to , ahem, improve certain physical aspects was named... Big Boy.

The teasing was that, just teasing. And, yes, guys do that sort of thing all the time, but with affection.
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Old 25-10-2012, 04:38
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Mean or not, recall that the "meds" Mylow bought to , ahem, improve certain physical aspects was named... Big Boy.

The teasing was that, just teasing. And, yes, guys do that sort of thing all the time, but with affection.
I disagree on this about the teasing. First off, DM is Mark's doctor and Mark shared his concerns with DM in a doctor/patient relationship. There was simply no right for DM to take that serious insecurity shared in private and throw it back at Mark as a joke. That destroys the doc/patient relationship--(it's terrible if one cannot share with the doc in town at risk of him making fun of one's condition later; that is a real ethics breach). And remember, the two of them aren't joking friends; they aren't friends at all. There's no affection, there's no slapping each other on the back, and heading for the pub for a pint.

I doubt any man in a shower is going to laugh loud and hard when others tease him about his obviously small penis.

After all, did we think it was a joke and a half when that teen with the small breasts was being teased by her friends for having small, undeveloped breasts? And, they were supposedly her friends! No, I would imagine most of us felt it was simply being extremely mean and nasty to her.

No matter the gender, some things simply hurt and are wrong to say. I feel DM's "Big Boy" sarcasm was one of those lines.
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Old 25-10-2012, 04:42
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I disagree on this about the teasing. First off, DM is Mark's doctor and Mark shared his concerns with DM in a doctor/patient relationship. There was simply no right for DM to take that serious insecurity shared in private and throw it back at Mark as a joke. That destroys the doc/patient relationship--(it's terrible if one cannot share with the doc in town at risk of him making fun of one's condition later; that is a real ethics breach). And remember, the two of them aren't joking friends; they aren't friends at all. There's no affection, there's no slapping each other on the back, and heading for the pub for a pint.

I doubt any man in a shower is going to laugh loud and hard when others tease him about his obviously small penis.

After all, did we think it was a joke and a half when that teen with the small breasts was being teased by her friends for having small, undeveloped breasts? And, they were supposedly her friends! No, I would imagine most of us felt it was simply being extremely mean and nasty to her.

No matter the gender, some things simply hurt and are wrong to say. I feel DM's "Big Boy" sarcasm was one of those lines.
Don't you dare attack Our Doc, Mona!
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Old 25-10-2012, 05:43
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Mean or not, recall that the "meds" Mylow bought to , ahem, improve certain physical aspects was named... Big Boy.

The teasing was that, just teasing. And, yes, guys do that sort of thing all the time, but with affection.
I agree. DM responded to Mark's 'issue' appropriately during the first conversation in the surgery. It seems like the 'big boy' comment was only him teasing about the product and it's name. By then Mark found out that he'd been gullible to think that these pills were a miracle drug.
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Old 25-10-2012, 06:05
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Mean or not, recall that the "meds" Mylow bought to , ahem, improve certain physical aspects was named... Big Boy.

The teasing was that, just teasing. And, yes, guys do that sort of thing all the time, but with affection.
Totally agree

And remember how DM was right behind Mark with his zero sperm count diagnosis when Julie announced he was the father of her expected baby...

and yet

DM was trying to hold Mark back from having her out of the house ASAP when she experienced pain and the truth all came out

There IS a caring guy deep ( very deep ) down inside there

Leave my Doc alone...
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Old 25-10-2012, 12:50
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Totally agree

And remember how DM was right behind Mark with his zero sperm count diagnosis when Julie announced he was the father of her expected baby...

and yet

DM was trying to hold Mark back from having her out of the house ASAP when she experienced pain and the truth all came out

There IS a caring guy deep ( very deep ) down inside there

Leave my Doc alone...
Also, when they were riding in Mark's car, didn't the Doc tell him that the pills were just mult-vitamins, and that they wouldn't help his condition? He was pretty nice when he told him that, I think. But I could be remembering wrong.
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Old 25-10-2012, 14:07
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New poll up on www.docmartinonline.net - Why does Martin assume that Louisa is trying to influence the outcome of her interview for headteacher when she compliments him in season 2, episode 2?
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Old 25-10-2012, 15:49
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Mean or not, recall that the "meds" Mylow bought to , ahem, improve certain physical aspects was named... Big Boy.

The teasing was that, just teasing. And, yes, guys do that sort of thing all the time, but with affection.
Well it is nice to here a mans point if view on this subject.
Also maybe DM and Mark are friends in a way. DM calls him "Mark" but calls JP "Penhale". Although this could be due to the ratcheting up of the grumpiness factor in series 3, maybe, but he does seem a bit friendlier towards Mark.
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Old 25-10-2012, 16:13
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The powers that be at our local station that runs DM have decided (after running all of series 1 and one ep of series 2 to jump to series 4. So very, very annoying and new comers to the show will be completely confused.
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Old 25-10-2012, 16:25
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The powers that be at our local station that runs DM have decided (after running all of series 1 and one ep of series 2 to jump to series 4. So very, very annoying and new comers to the show will be completely confused.
How very strange! One wonders how these decisions get made. Have you communicated your dismay to them?
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Old 25-10-2012, 16:28
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Forgive the off-topic please, but a friend told me about this BBC program the other day and I have been watching it online at PBS. It's another program that garners 10 million plus viewers in England and will have a second season in 2013. I have a particular weakness for London's East End, but even without that, this series is wonderful, imo at least. I thought some of you might be interested in it. It's set in the 1950's.
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Old 25-10-2012, 17:26
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Thank you, D.M.N., for the link to the press release. It's a mixture of good news/worrisome news, isn't it? For example, they state that "all regular members of the cast" are returning, yet every regular is specifically mentioned except for Selina Cadell. Ack! Since Mrs. T. was left in quite a precarious position at the end of S5, and we've talked here about how or if the character can continue after what happened, I wonder (and worry).

I'm just back in town after a short vacation and I see that I have a lot of catching up to do, as well as watching this week's rewatch episode. I hope tonight to end up with a free evening to do just this.

 

 
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Old 25-10-2012, 17:51
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Mean or not, recall that the "meds" Mylow bought to , ahem, improve certain physical aspects was named... Big Boy.

The teasing was that, just teasing. And, yes, guys do that sort of thing all the time, but with affection.
Thanks for the clarification, Rob. I've always thought Doc's comment to Mark was simply teasing, and didn't apply so much to Mark's physical features as it did to his gullibility in believing he could buy "Big Boy" pills off the internet that would truly make a difference.
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Old 25-10-2012, 18:29
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Forgive the off-topic please, but a friend told me about this BBC program the other day and I have been watching it online at PBS. It's another program that garners 10 million plus viewers in England and will have a second season in 2013. I have a particular weakness for London's East End, but even without that, this series is wonderful, imo at least. I thought some of you might be interested in it. It's set in the 1950's.
Tom Goodman-Hill has been in both DM and Call the Midwife. He played expectant dad David Jones and in DM played Bert Large's competitor.

I agree that CTM is a great show!
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Old 25-10-2012, 19:53
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Forgive the off-topic please, but a friend told me about this BBC program the other day and I have been watching it online at PBS. It's another program that garners 10 million plus viewers in England and will have a second season in 2013. I have a particular weakness for London's East End, but even without that, this series is wonderful, imo at least. I thought some of you might be interested in it. It's set in the 1950's.
I was in New York City yesterday and saw The Heiress with Dan Stevens, (which is now in previews) at a matinee. This play is a winner. Dan Stevens (Downton Abbey) is every bit as handsome on stage, and his acting is subperb. I happened to sit next to a woman from Scotland, who mentioned to me if I have been seeing The Midwives on PBS and I said I have. She said she was a midwife in Scotland, and the series is so true to what she went through. I then mentioned to her about William and Mary, which is also on another pbs station and she said she had not seen it. She never heard of Julie Graham, which surprised me as she is Scottish. Unfortunately, W&M is winding up with only 2 episodes to go and I don't know if they will run it again.

Incidentally, for all you young people on this forum, The Heiress was a 1949 film starring Olivia deHaviland (won Oscar for her role) and Montgomery Clift
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Old 25-10-2012, 20:00
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How very strange! One wonders how these decisions get made. Have you communicated your dismay to them?
I will if I get time but as I have them on my computer it will not be a high priority and I am flat out at the moment.
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Old 25-10-2012, 20:03
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Forgive the off-topic please, but a friend told me about this BBC program the other day and I have been watching it online at PBS. It's another program that garners 10 million plus viewers in England and will have a second season in 2013. I have a particular weakness for London's East End, but even without that, this series is wonderful, imo at least. I thought some of you might be interested in it. It's set in the 1950's.
It has just started here. I didn't bother watching it as I was totally disinterested on Downton Abbey and thought it was the same sort of thing. But I will give it a chance, now that you've recommended it. Thank you
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Old 25-10-2012, 20:16
marchrand
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Tom Goodman-Hill has been in both DM and Call the Midwife. He played expectant dad David Jones and in DM played Bert Large's competitor.

I agree that CTM is a great show!
I have gotten hooked on Call the Midwives. I think with Miranda Hart coming on board it really added the comedy touch. Wouldn't you love to see Martin Clunes and Miranda Hart in a one-off tv comedy show? I don't think they would get anything done, one outdoing the other.
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Old 25-10-2012, 20:47
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It has just started here. I didn't bother watching it as I was totally disinterested on Downton Abbey and thought it was the same sort of thing. But I will give it a chance, now that you've recommended it. Thank you
whatever you think of it, I'm sure you will agree that it is so NOT Downton Abbey;
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