It's bearable, that's all, I think the show is now entering its twilight years and you're right the stunts aren't working. TXF continues to do well, but it's just not the juggernaut it was a few years ago.

Most shows would kill for being flat at nearly 9m; including The Voice by the end of it's run. I think the Merlin clash and the 22.20 finish will hurt the show next week, though. They really needed to try and ensure it finished by 10pm IMO.

I wonder whether they'll consider switching the whole show to Sunday nights? Obviously, the biggest problem (which they've had with Dancing on Ice) is that they've got nothing to hold up on Saturday nights opposite Strictly. I guess they could try the likes of You've Been Framed, The Chase, Take Me Out and...maybe something akin to Benidorm...and see what happens.

Its like any show, XFactor has played all their trump cards already in years gone by and repeatign these trump cards dont have the same affect as they did first or second time around. In Big Brother when the 'Secret Bedsit' was first introduced, it was a massive thing. The second time they did it in the form of House Next Door, it was still quite a big thing but not as massive a deal. The third or fourth time they did it in whatever form, it just didnt mean that big of a deal because that trump card had already been used before and it was repetitive. Same goes for bringing in new contestants mid-series, when that first happened it was a huge thing but by the third or fourth series they did that, it was no biggy.

Its the same with the soaps. First time there was a big Who's The Daddy/Who's She Having an Affair with storyline, it would grip the nation. Even 10 years ago when the Who Shot Phil storyline happened, it was quite a new type of Who Dunnit which the soaps here hadnt done before and was huge. Now something like that doesnt have anywehear near as much of an impact [unless its a live episode which will soon lose its novelty], not just because of multichannel tv getting bigger but because it's the same old thing. The Will They Get Married on the Wedding Day storyline has been done so much, it's now almost the norm for that to be the wedding day storyline most times and so it's no longer very effective.

Downton Abbey and Doctor Who have been using up their stunts, whcih is a bad thing especially for the former which is only 3 series old. How many times has the Daleks been brought back in the last 7 years? I bet the ratings first time Daleks were shown post 2005 it was massive but this series it didnt make a big impact, it's a stunt already done and didnt create the same buzz as it did a few years ago. Downton abbey recently had a major character propose to someone on Christmas Day, a lovely storyline, but something which they cant really repeat again in the future with other characters to the same impact. They even had a Will They or Wont They Get Married on the Wedding Day storyline already! If they try that again, next series or series 5/6/7, it just isnt going to get people talking as much as it did a couple weeks ago.

Indeed, in the nineties ITV sometimes had drama seven days a week and it was doing brilliantly. We need as much drama on this channel as we can get. But it is perhaps true to say that there are too many new dramas starting at the same time, it's like back in 2008 when they launched The Palace and Honest and that all at the same time, and indeed when they launched all the Saturday night LE shows on the same night in the last few summers. They desperately need more returning titles.


Yes. Also I must point out Liverpool are on ITV4 at 8pm which will surely get a million or so given they did alright at six o'clock last week.


This is bloody rubbish scheduling which'll just hit Corrie, mess viewers around and have absolutely no effect on the Beeb. There is no need for that Sunday episode, and Strictly has been up against Corrie before and done alright so that's a waste of an episode. Then the next week we have an episode on Thursday, a month after they dropped it from that slot! Why are ITV doing this?! WHEN is Coronation Street on!?

What would have been far better for ITV and, I know nobody at that channel cares about them, the viewers is doing an hour-long Corrie on Wednesday at eight which would have propped up Emmerdale, made it seem a special night (Mr and Mrs can go swivel, shove that anywhere at any time) and avoided using the Thursday slot which ITV have SAID it isn't in anymore. What a stupid channel, scheduled by a moron.


No bloody chance, I'm saying, there's no way they'd announce it that early, especially when Tony Gardner was tweeting it'd be in the slot The Paradise took just a few weeks ago. I know last year they announced that McIntyre show was going to be on Christmas Day months in advance and I poo-pooed it but that show, when it was broadcast, had clearly been intended for Christmas Day when it was commissioned and produced because it was mentioned all the way through. No such requirement here.


"I mustn't make the show too Christmassy for when it's repeated in the summer, so only the opening titles will be festooned with tinsel" - Mike Yarwood, 1980. And even the Khan repeats aren't unusual, back in 2000 the second series of The Peter Principle was shoved to Mondays at 10.40 mid-run because it was dying, but they still kept the repeats on Tuesdays at 11pm. And the second series of Dinnerladies was shown at 9.30 on Thursdays in 1999 and then repeated on Saturdays at exactly the same time. And that was in December.


Well, I'm glad we got that sorted, it was clearly wrong and it was a bit rubbish it was never spotted. You only had to watch episode one of Comedy World Cup to see it was never going to get that. Broadcast raised an eyebrow at it but never bothered to check it. In fact I'm disappointed about Broadcast's inability to check the ratings, the other week the repeat of the women's cricket at midnight on Sky Sports got in the multichannel chart, when of course it was the overrunning US Open tennis.


Heh, I like that. And the Comedy World Cup scheduling is atrocious, and never more so than last night, because if the point of scheduling it after Doctor Who is to pull in Whovians, why start it five minutes before the end of Who, especially that of all episodes. No, it's alright, I can't be bothered seeing two regular characters leave, I'd rather see the old Doctor Who read an autocue. Ludicrous.

In Broadcast...
* BBC1's entertainment commissioners are going to stop telling producers and independent companies which specific slots they want things for and instead just let them pitch any show for any slot in the hope they'll come up with something new
* William Hurt is going to star in a big one-off drama for BBC2 about the Challenger disaster
* C4 have commissioned Child Genius, a new show testing Britain's brainiest kids, which according to C4 will "crack the tone for a 9pm competittive format"
* C4 have also commissioned a hidden camera factual show which will watch how the public react to people being rude and racist and so on, which will have a "celebratory" tone with the punters being good samaritans. Sounds a bit like That's Life.
* Doesn't look like Big Fat Gypsy Weddings is coming back.
* The makers of the overrated Horrible Histories are doing a similar show about record breakers
* Whitechapel has been recommissioned

It's the same for all shows; the trick is finding a new stunt which works to replace the old one. I think The X Factor nearly had it right last year as sending four home in week one created debate but they shouldn't have ditched the public vote; that was dire and backfired massively IMO.

Dancing on Ice tried to revamp the panel (a reasonable process considering how unpopular Jason had come) and added an individual skill week, which most fans had been clammering for, but neither did anything for ratings.

Strictly Come Dancing and I'm A Celebrity... rely on stunt casting and both have had hits and misses throughout their series. Strictly look to have it spot on this series and it sounds as though there are quite a few half decent contestants dance wise.

I think The X Factor need to stick to the basics; allow the decline and just settle as being a decent 8m show instead of chasing extra viewers and maybe alienating the ones they have left in the process. They mustn't lose anymore, though.

Dancing on ice has tried to revamp its panel almost every year since it started, so it was nothing new. Also individual skills is the same thing as the Required Elements they had every year beforehand, just with a different name. The whole show is stale. When it first started, it was exciting because you could see these celebrities possibly injuring themselves, something which hadnt really been seen on tv much before. The Headbanger was a big thing when it was first introduced too. But now if a celeb injures themselves, it doesnt matter, weve seen it all too many times before. And the Headbanger, which used to be a big ratings stunt, has been done quite often and is not that spectacular anymore. Also seeing the final contestants doing Bolero every year is boring now :yawn:

I bet people will get bored of celebs eating cockroaches on Im a Celeb in the next few years. Theres only so many different ways the tasks can be made for what is essentially celebs eating insects. Production values has improved in recent years but that can only extend the lifespan of something for so long and eventually it will look tired. I predict 10-20% drop in Im a Celeb ratings this year.

In response to Steve Williams excellent post about ITV, for all the station has some good drama, this isn't a patch on what they had in the nineties when you could have Heartbeat and Band of Gold in the same schedule and the soaps were only on three times a week. It seems ITV is overly dependent on Coronation St and seems to treat it as a god, when in reality it's not that big a deal any more.

Not been paying much attention so think I missed Take Me Out jumping in next week. That'll be an interesting one to watch, should manage 4m against Strictly.


8-10 is pretty much 'perfect' X Factor time.
The main danger is when their before 8; bit like Strictly going pre-7, its worse than going on later.

10 would be a better finish, but we get a bit too excited about averages. ITV might just want to get another ad break to sell in there.


I've been wondering this. Run on Sundays then go Saturday/Sunday for the Lives.
Looking at their Sunday schedule, a lot of things like The Chase could go on Saturday.

The Chase/Take Me Out/Jonathan Ross. And something else in between or before The Chase.

It would eventually be on Saturdays though; and theres a danger of 'leaving them open' to BBC One to try something in its slot for those first few weeks. Making sure X Factor enjoys the majority of the PR and no other show sneaks in their is a big priority for them.

It would help the earlier shows though; maybe build a bit more excitement; keeping that audience for the Saturday shift.



I was terrified she'd found some audience that wasn't being engaged with on Saturday nights!
Insteads she just ruining David Tennant to an audience of 0.6m, just so MPD can 'excite' 0.9m on a Friday night

I wonder how many people record MPD, I do. Insufferable otherwise.
I don't know what I would do in a universe where Jay Hunt is competent, with X Factor falling, Who getting half decent lead ins, - shes the only constant left

But Opportunity Knocks and New Faces lasted years with what was basically the same old format which begs the questions why they're hunting for the next big stunt and why viewers are tiring of shows which are basically the same year after year. Does the audience have less of an attention span now or is it the added competition that is allowing people to slip away when they get a tiny bit bored with a show instead of giving it time to develop?


I'm A Celebrity... relies as much on stunt casting and Ant and Dec as it does on the tasks; hence it depends on the personalities in the camp whether it floats or sinks.

Op Knocks ran for 17 years on ITV and 3 years on BBC One. New Faces ran for 5 years in the seventies and 3 years in the eighties. Ratings for Op Knocks at its height would make TXF look like a flop. New Faces wasn't as huge, but was seen as a trendier show and the panel format has obviously been an influence on Cowell. However, neither of these shows seemed to be as overhyped as TXF.
I'm not an XF hater, as I appreciate it has helped ITV from going under in the late noughties and some of the singers are good, but I just don't see why it has to be hyped so much on TV and in the press.

Opportunity Knocks and New Faces were shown at a time when there were only 3 channels, 1 of which was a niche channel. They were good shows but when theres only a couple channels, its easier to get bigger ratings and so lasted for many years. I dont think shows these days should be compared to shows back then, tv is so much different now. I bet if Op Knocks was shown now, they would have to refresh the format every so often to make viewers stick with it in a tv industry which is much more competitive now.

yes it was a mistake, Sky announced this massive deal between them, and HBO, giving the impression that only Sky was going to be able to air HBO programming in the UK.

It turns out that if we actually looked at the contract, there was a massive great big hole in it.


yes TXF should be doing better than it is, at this stage, I truely hope that this series is the first step to people no longer watching. If ratings do no increase this season, I expect alot of people to not bother returning next year.



I fear for Casualty, its really not as bad as the ratings suggest. Its making Red or Black? look successful

other ratings:

Like most of the season Doctor Who rated ok last night, ratings unable to hit any highs, much like the show generally. I hope Merlin can do better.

Is C4 airing the Irish version of Come Dine With Me? then again im so not in the habit of even looking at C4 on a Saturday night.

Low night for C5, Miami normally rates better, but in that slot and its the final season, so a drop off is to be expected.


TBH im thinking of running a book, on when C4 do the decent thing and put Hollyoaks out of its misery.

Kirkwood failed at EE, no reason to think he can revive Hollyoaks.

So what both of you are saying is practically every show (possibly even the soaps though even they are seeing a decline) has a shelf life and increased competition means that they have to either push the boundaries or accept a downfall sooner rather than later?

If that's the case then the television landscape is going to change quicker and quicker as the years go on. Will we see any new shows get through a decade in the future (not many shows do now, to be fair, but a few do)?

I think it depends on the kind of show. If its something like Countryfile or Antiques Roadshow, which is just there and doesnt need any publicity, it doesnt need to push the boundaries. If it's a show which gets lots of press coverage and is part of the national conversation, they dont have to push the boundaries but at least try to freshen themselves up every few years and use publicity stunts but that will only last for so long because eventually those stunts will get repetitive. For some shows like XFactor it did this successfully for 8 or 9 series, other shows might only manage 5 series of doing it. But they have to be careful not to push the boundaries so much which brings into question the integrity of the show because it will result in the bubble bursting.

Didn't we find out the New Years day scheduling of Sherlock just as early last year?


Sound suspiciously like ABC's 'What would you do?' series.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primeti...ould_You_Do%3F

Surely this a 'Sarah Lancashire' thing?

They brought The Paradise forward to get in ahead of ITV's period shop drama Mr Selfridge.

This would have meant having too Sarah Lancashire dramas running the same time on the same channel, so they shifted Halifax to the new year.

CSI: Miami hasn't budged from low 1's all season. At least it's consistent! And it regularly beats the competition on BBC Two and C4. Frankly they seem to have bigger problems elsewhere, notably Mondays, Thursdays and Fridays. Only nearly half the week.

What a difference a week makes for C4! I'm glad we got that one cleared up. I'm sure they won't mind too much that their ratings last weekend were reported to be much higher than they actually were, though, as it helped temporarily mask the fact that Baggage, Comedy World Cup, and to a lesser extent Million Pound Drop, are drastically underperforming. Whilst the latter might have a lot of "highly educated young females" watching, I refuse to believe C4 are setting the bar so low now that Total People figures below 1m are acceptable for a live shiny floor primetime entertainment show, especially one that used to do much more.

It was of its time, but its influence shows in programmes like BGT. BGT's dancing dogs, singing grannies and spinning plates all owe something to Hughie Green. Bet he's smiling down on BGT now, itself a megaforce in today's more competitive television market. Also Mr Cowell in his teens must have thought, I'd love a show like this.

I think The X Factor 'pushing the boundaries' in terms of the joke act was a pure accident. In series 6 the group section was dire outside Miss Frank and Kandy Rain so Louis took a punt on Jedward on personality and nationality and it worked...so they went with Wagner the year after which was an even greater success. I thin Goldie would have been a step too far for the show so it was a blessing in disguise than she withdrew although the ratings said otherwise.

Maybe The X Factor needs to fade slightly into the background and hope that the Cult of Cowell connection can keep it at a decent level. As long as it doesn't fall below 7m I don't think Simon will touch it, and as long as it doesn't fall below 5m ITV won't want to see it go - and it's a long way off that at the moment.

Indeed, but I guess they like to have Being Liverpool as a part of their male-skewing Friday-night line-up: Heroes of the Skies, Eddie Stobart, late crime thriller. These three are all fairly old-skewing, and while football interests (some) men of all ages, you'd think they'd be after the younger male demos for Being Liverpool and they're likely to be elsewhere on a Friday night, as you say.


Fascinating insight into viewing during the wee hours of the morning. We hardly ever get these figures.

I wonder how much ITV charges the teleshopping operator for access to 100,000 viewers at 1am on a Sunday morning. I suppose if only a quarter of those people buy anything, it's worth it.

Small audiences but healthy shares for two programmes in the Sign Zone early on Saturday morning, particularly Rip Off Britain. I expect the bulk of these largely hard-of-hearing viewers recorded and watched later that day.

The BBC News simulcast from 4.25-6am on Saturday had a decent share. The Countdown and DOND repeats from 4am on Saturday failed to crack the top 100, as did the classic film A Clockwork Orange on ITV1 from 2.40am, after a 2-hour teleshopping window.

If its a question of X Factors comparative decline, for me it was the loss of the definitive panel off the back of the gloriously OTT and hugely successful 2010 series.Cowells ambitions in America dragged not just him but Cheryl Cole away to be partially estranged from the show-and even more curiously the loss of the seemingly now fully estranged Danni Minogue.
The new panel may or may not be worthy, but its clear there is nowhere near the same feel and buzz surrounding them than the near hero worship which existed before. ITV and Cowell have somehow contrived to weaken X Factor at its very peak.

Hello Fudd, all shows have a shelf life except possibly the soaps, but what's to say Coronation St could end eventually if the up and coming generation don't take to it. Also IAC is ten years old now and the format is looking stale and the pool of zelebs is drying up and, for all ratings are still healthy, it's likely people will say, not this again. Again does it have to be in a jungle, the contestants could be sent to a savannah?

I've just seen a trailer of Challenge for the new Sky Living series Show Us Your Wardrobe, presented by two young females. It appears to be part Trinny & Susannah, part How To Look Good Naked.

This, Fudd, is part of the problem with television today - there is, and has been, too much of it and it's very difficult to come up with a new idea that's going to make a big impact.


I think if I was an ITV executive and X Factor slipped below 7m, I'd be a bit concerned, especially if Strictly's ratings are holding up better. True, even if TXF fell to, say, 6.8m it would probably still be rating better than anything that might replace it, but it does have a very big budget and, as an independent production, its money-making oppprtunities for ITV must be limited, so it might start to be unprofitable for them at this level.

But I don't see it dropping that low for a good few years yet.

there is some commercail money in Show Us Your Wardrobe

http://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/news/c...046445.article


this is an example of advertising funded TV shows, being far too safe, and dull.

The kind of show ITV2 would have shown a few years ago. Actually, Charnham, do you think ITV2 is becoming a bit better than it was in, say, 2008 when it was still dominated by zeleb reality shows and endless Corrie repeats?