DS Forums

 
 

Dragon's Den


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 30-09-2012, 22:40
Inspiration
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 53,385
I also didn't like the way they tried to make the dad feel that he was killing his son's future by not agreeing to bend over for them. They tore him apart for not being willing to negotiate, but I didn't see them doing any either. The second offer was exactly the same as the one that had been turned down.
Negotiations became impossible the moment they stated (rather firmly) that they weren't willing to budge from the 10% they asked for when they walked in. From that moment onwards it was end of pitch because the Dragons were never going to drop to 10%. There was no point in any other offers being made. Even the best products taken into the Den typically involve a bit of give and take with the %.

Perhaps they felt strongly about the 10% and decided they wouldn't budge. Their choice. But I think Peter was trying to make them realise that it's not always about owning 90% of a company, it's about the company making money. 90% of nothing is nothing. 50% of a million pound company is £500,000. That was the point he was trying to make to them.
Inspiration is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 30-09-2012, 22:41
MrSuper
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 9,323
Had to laugh at the father and son and Duncan asking that they wouldn't even negotiate from 11% to 11.5%?
MrSuper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-09-2012, 23:14
jende
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: London/Kent
Posts: 21,085
Had to laugh at the father and son and Duncan asking that they wouldn't even negotiate from 11% to 11.5%?
I actualluy cringed when he said that and was thinking 'nooo, so not the thing to say'!!! I was imagining the son thinking 'just shut up dad!'
jende is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 12:27
Stansfield
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 5,982
Had to laugh at the father and son and Duncan asking that they wouldn't even negotiate from 11% to 11.5%?
The beginning of the end, of them two.
From dads body language (and a dragon picked up and commented on it) I wonder if he really did want/intend to accept any investment and just saw the programme as a bit of free publicity for his product and company ?
10 minute ad methinks....they must be, , raking it in, this morning/afternoon.
I've just noticed people walk down the stairs this year...
It's the new thing, this year.
Ridiculous.

I liked the Final Fling Funerals....
Stansfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 13:22
SXTony
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,200
Negotiations became impossible the moment they stated (rather firmly) that they weren't willing to budge from the 10% they asked for when they walked in. From that moment onwards it was end of pitch because the Dragons were never going to drop to 10%. There was no point in any other offers being made. Even the best products taken into the Den typically involve a bit of give and take with the %.

Perhaps they felt strongly about the 10% and decided they wouldn't budge. Their choice. But I think Peter was trying to make them realise that it's not always about owning 90% of a company, it's about the company making money. 90% of nothing is nothing. 50% of a million pound company is £500,000. That was the point he was trying to make to them.
Fair point that they shot themselves in the foot a bit, but still the second offer wasn't any sweeter than the first, that's not negotiating either. What was the point of offering the same again if the dad had already stated that he wouldn't get anywhere near that?

I can't remember the last time that proper negotiations happened in the den. You know the sort of negotiations where one side increases and the other comes down so that they meet somewhere in the middle. It's always "I want 40%" end of story. Perhaps 2 dragons may be interested and bring the equity down a tad, but normally they team up and still want the 40% or more, even, as having 2 dragons on board is so much better.
SXTony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 14:20
heiker
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,684
Amazing that some people appear on the programme who don't ever appear to have watched it. They don't seem to realise that the first offer is nothing more than that. Other offers can come from other dragons. Doh !!!!!
heiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 14:20
HHGTTG
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: South London
Posts: 5,105
Crystal Rose, that name rings a bell.
You're proabably thinking of Crystal Meth.
HHGTTG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 14:24
heiker
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,684
Negotiations became impossible the moment they stated (rather firmly) that they weren't willing to budge from the 10% they asked for when they walked in. From that moment onwards it was end of pitch because the Dragons were never going to drop to 10%. There was no point in any other offers being made. Even the best products taken into the Den typically involve a bit of give and take with the %.

Perhaps they felt strongly about the 10% and decided they wouldn't budge. Their choice. But I think Peter was trying to make them realise that it's not always about owning 90% of a company, it's about the company making money. 90% of nothing is nothing. 50% of a million pound company is £500,000. That was the point he was trying to make to them.
Very true but I still think that the dragons were being exceptionally greedy last night almost to the point of them mugging the two guys for a substantial slice of what looks like being a very safe bet.
heiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 15:32
Shrike
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 11,472
...Perhaps they felt strongly about the 10% and decided they wouldn't budge. Their choice. But I think Peter was trying to make them realise that it's not always about owning 90% of a company, it's about the company making money. 90% of nothing is nothing. 50% of a million pound company is £500,000. That was the point he was trying to make to them.
Trouble is that at 50% the applicants will feel they are very much working for the dragons. Most people who strive to set up a company do so as they don't want to work for someone else - many would rather be their own boss on a minimal income than answer to someone else for a comfy lifestyle.
I think the proble with the wheelbarrow is that it was clearly a one-off idea - allbeit a very good one. I didn't get the feeling those two would come up with any more products - unlike the car-park kid or even the walking stick lady, both those two gave the impression of having a future of new products to work with.
Shrike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 16:06
Calibans Dream
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,721
Yes I think last night's show clearly exposes that they are more interested in vacuuming up any person full of ideas than invest in a product.

In other words they want to buy up anyone who might be a threat to them.
Calibans Dream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 16:32
Inspiration
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 53,385
I can't remember the last time that proper negotiations happened in the den. You know the sort of negotiations where one side increases and the other comes down so that they meet somewhere in the middle. It's always "I want 40%" end of story.
I feel a bit sad admitting to this but I've watched every single episode of Dragons Den since the start.. and there are very often negotiations where the pitchers move the % down and even bag the help of two dragons when at first they only had one. So there is room for negotiation in the den if handled right. If the product is good enough, the pitch is good and the people pitching give off the right impression.. then you can quite easily trigger a bidding war where the % drops down and down as more Dragons make offers and counter offers to try and get the deal.

I didn't get the feeling those two would come up with any more products - unlike the car-park kid or even the walking stick lady, both those two gave the impression of having a future of new products to work with.
Exactly which is why I think Peter was trying to get the son to realise that this was perhaps a one off chance to make a large sum of money and leave it at that rather than a long term business that required 90% control over it.

In other words they want to buy up anyone who might be a threat to them.
I very much doubt they're doing that. Peter spends far too much time encouraging young entrepreneurs to have an issue with anyone being a 'threat' to him. The Dragons have all made their money.
Inspiration is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 17:48
Inspiration
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 53,385
Duncan has been taken ill today.

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/new...ck/?ref=twtrec

Hope he makes a speedy recovery.
Inspiration is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 18:40
best boy
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 478
Can't believe that the Dragons didn't pick up many fundamental flaws in that 'wheelbarrow' nonsense.

Have they got a patent? If not, how hard would it be for anyone to copy a very simple idea.

Are all wheelbarrows exactly the same shape? If not, their idea would be too loose/tight to work. Better a bag with the bottom the shape of the base of a wheelbarrow.

It's fine to show grass clippings being loaded. What about bricks, sand etc? This would be more than the design limit of the wheelbarrow and could lead to collapse. Also, such heavy material flattening the sides of their 'bag' wouldn't be very good, would it?

Like so many shows, DD started off well but is now tired and stuck in the old, predictable format. Bannatyne:

"I'll give you a fiver in return for 99.9% of your company."
best boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 19:06
KidPoker
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Winnersville
Posts: 4,058
Apparently Duncan has had a heart attack.
KidPoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 19:08
grps3
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,735
the show has lost its shine for me....used to be unmissable , now its just junk
sadly i declare myself out

cant stand that female troll thing with shoulder pads that sits next to duncan
grps3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 19:18
hyperstarsponge
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: North East
Posts: 12,253
I feel that it needs a format change to survive now or be axed
hyperstarsponge is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 19:26
kiteflyer
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,039
Apparently Duncan has had a heart attack.
A suspected heart attack according to news reports

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2012-...-heart-attack/
kiteflyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 19:29
hyperstarsponge
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: North East
Posts: 12,253
BBC does a edit of the show next week to show the fact he had a heart attack
hyperstarsponge is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 19:32
hyperstarsponge
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: North East
Posts: 12,253
Post duplicate
hyperstarsponge is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2012, 07:37
roddydogs
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,346
Get some of that plastic tarpaulin material and make your own!
Why use a "Skirt" that could let leaves go down the side, just put a big bag on the wheelbarrow to start with!!, then you've only got to lift the bag in to your car to dump them only suitable for leaves & cuttings anyway, daft idea.
I should imagine DD will be pulled re Duncan if hes really ill.
roddydogs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2012, 08:27
heiker
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,684
the show has lost its shine for me....used to be unmissable , now its just junk
sadly i declare myself out

cant stand that female troll thing with shoulder pads that sits next to duncan
Me neither...recoiling in horror

Why would any woman wish to dress like that
heiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2012, 10:00
Inspiration
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 53,385
I think she looks great.
Inspiration is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2012, 13:09
walterwhite
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 21,720
Can't believe that the Dragons didn't pick up many fundamental flaws in that 'wheelbarrow' nonsense.

Have they got a patent? If not, how hard would it be for anyone to copy a very simple idea.

Are all wheelbarrows exactly the same shape? If not, their idea would be too loose/tight to work. Better a bag with the bottom the shape of the base of a wheelbarrow.

It's fine to show grass clippings being loaded. What about bricks, sand etc? This would be more than the design limit of the wheelbarrow and could lead to collapse. Also, such heavy material flattening the sides of their 'bag' wouldn't be very good, would it?

Like so many shows, DD started off well but is now tired and stuck in the old, predictable format. Bannatyne:

"I'll give you a fiver in return for 99.9% of your company."
It is heavily edited. How do you know they didn't ask all those questions?
walterwhite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2012, 20:56
googleking
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: West London
Posts: 14,776
I should imagine DD will be pulled re Duncan if hes really ill.
Why should it be? It's not like dragons haven't been replaced before!
googleking is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2012, 23:01
thetvking
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 330
I used to watch for the "business" angle. Now I class it more as a comedy show. The producers know how to pick and edit for effect.

I have found BBC3's bee your own boss better to see new business people. Although they are all young(under 25 i think). They get the chaff out of the way very swiftly.
thetvking is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
 
Reply




 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:10.