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NFC Have you tried it yet?
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neo_wales
13-08-2013
Originally Posted by tdenson:
“Talk about the tail wagging the dog. a spare battery is a darn sight bigger than a credit card !”

Depends on the battery really. I travel more than most people on DS so having a battery with me is more habit than usage to be honest.

Its easier than carrying a charger with you.
kidspud
13-08-2013
Originally Posted by neo_wales:
“Depends on the battery really. I travel more than most people on DS so having a battery with me is more habit than usage to be honest.

Its easier than carrying a charger with you.”

Well, I'm not sure how much you travel but I'm all over the place and carry at least my phone and either my iPad or my laptop so there is never a concept of not carrying a charger (which consists of a single slim iPad charger and 2 USB cables). Even with a spare battery that could give me 2 days use, I would still need a charger.

Carrying a spare battery is just not accepted and not common, and if that is an answer to making nfc payments on phones useful, then I think the functionality should be ditched.
neo_wales
13-08-2013
Originally Posted by kidspud:
“Well, I'm not sure how much you travel but I'm all over the place and carry at least my phone and either my iPad or my laptop so there is never a concept of not carrying a charger (which consists of a single slim iPad charger and 2 USB cables). Even with a spare battery that could give me 2 days use, I would still need a charger.

Carrying a spare battery is just not accepted and not common, and if that is an answer to making nfc payments on phones useful, then I think the functionality should be ditched.”

lol, are you having a bad day So you carry a phone, ipad or laptop and a charger, good for you, I just on a day to day basis carry a phone and spare battery, a perfectly good concept for my needs although in all honesty the spare battery is seldom needed, its the Boy Scout in me, 'Be Prepared' As to carrying a spare battery being common? You carry a charger I choose the 'slimmer' option of a battery. Thankfully I'm now very comfortably retired and have no need to carry a mobile office with me My son, daughter, wife and many friends (predominately professional people) carry a spare battery so the idea is hardly unused.
kidspud
13-08-2013
Originally Posted by neo_wales:
“lol, are you having a bad day So you carry a phone, ipad or laptop and a charger, good for you, I just on a day to day basis carry a phone and spare battery, a perfectly good concept for my needs although in all honesty the spare battery is seldom needed, its the Boy Scout in me, 'Be Prepared' As to carrying a spare battery being common? You carry a charger I choose the 'slimmer' option of a battery. Thankfully I'm now very comfortably retired and have no need to carry a mobile office with me My son, daughter, wife and many friends (predominately professional people) carry a spare battery so the idea is hardly unused.”

No, I'm having a great day, the sun is out and I've just had a nice breakfast.

This discussion was in the context of nfc. I cannot see a great selling point for the use of nfc payment being "don't worry if you run out of power, just carry a spare battery"

And when you said travelling, I assumed you meant more than just days out. I never carry a charger in those circumstances.

Unless a smartphone can bring true additional functionality then one of those nfc stickers that go on the back of the phone would be just as useful.
psionic
13-08-2013
Originally Posted by noise747:
“That is true, the spending limit is only £15 or is it £20 now? so yes you also need to carry a card or cash.”

In the case of my bank, the maximum single transaction is £20. Every now and again it may ask for a PIN - especially if numerous payments are being made in short succession. You're also 100% covered if your card is lost/stolen and misused.
kidspud
13-08-2013
Originally Posted by psionic:
“In the case of my bank, the maximum single transaction is £20. Every now and again it may ask for a PIN - especially if numerous payments are being made in short succession. You're also 100% covered if your card is lost/stolen and misused.”

I think £20 is the limit at all uk banks now. I don't think that is enough.
neo_wales
13-08-2013
Originally Posted by kidspud:
“No, I'm having a great day, the sun is out and I've just had a nice breakfast.

This discussion was in the context of nfc. I cannot see a great selling point for the use of nfc payment being "don't worry if you run out of power, just carry a spare battery"

And when you said travelling, I assumed you meant more than just days out. I never carry a charger in those circumstances.

Unless a smartphone can bring true additional functionality then one of those nfc stickers that go on the back of the phone would be just as useful.”

I thought the context was NFC and not just phone based NFC.

Never assume anything, I started carrying a spare battery many years ago. Even when I was nursing the spare would be useful, when still a keen hill walker it was a safety issue too. I took three batteries with me when I went out to 'scout' for a retirement home in Gran Canaria, very handy too and less bulky than a charger and leads and it meant I could be active on a phone for a week or more without concern for battery life.

If your phone goes dead on you (mine won't) then just use your card.

Hope you enjoyed your breakfast; my young grandson is coming shortly and we'll be having kippers and poached eggs
kidspud
13-08-2013
Originally Posted by neo_wales:
“I thought the context was NFC and not just phone based NFC.

Never assume anything, I started carrying a spare battery many years ago. Even when I was nursing the spare would be useful, when still a keen hill walker it was a safety issue too. I took three batteries with me when I went out to 'scout' for a retirement home in Gran Canaria, very handy too and less bulky than a charger and leads and it meant I could be active on a phone for a week or more without concern for battery life.

If your phone goes dead on you (mine won't) then just use your card.

Hope you enjoyed your breakfast; my young grandson is coming shortly and we'll be having kippers and poached eggs ”

Eggs benedict.
paulbrock
13-08-2013
spare batteries are an old (and increasingly unsupported) way of keeping topped up.

powerpacks are the way forward. For something the size of my phone, I can charge up my phone twice and still have enough to charge my tablet up full too.
noise747
13-08-2013
Originally Posted by psionic:
“In the case of my bank, the maximum single transaction is £20. Every now and again it may ask for a PIN - especially if numerous payments are being made in short succession. You're also 100% covered if your card is lost/stolen and misused.”

Originally Posted by kidspud:
“I think £20 is the limit at all uk banks now. I don't think that is enough.”

I think it is more than enough to be honest, I expect it will be put up to £100 soon, or maybe the banks are a bit worried about it being that high as it is not secure enough and they will end up paying to much.


Anyway, as for carrying batteries and chargers, I don't travel that much, if I do travel it is normally only a few miles away. I normally take my phone, Kobo, charger and two usb cables if I am going to be away for more than a couple of days. the Kobo will last for weeks on a charge, so not really a problem, but the cable is so light i may as well take it.

I also take my camcorder, charger for that, extra SD cards and my Still camera as well.

But since I would take my wallet with me as well, that would have a card in anyway, be it chip and pin or NFC, so why would it be quicker to use a phone?
tdenson
13-08-2013
Originally Posted by neo_wales:
“lol, are you having a bad day So you carry a phone, ipad or laptop and a charger, good for you, I just on a day to day basis carry a phone and spare battery, a perfectly good concept for my needs although in all honesty the spare battery is seldom needed, its the Boy Scout in me, 'Be Prepared' As to carrying a spare battery being common? You carry a charger I choose the 'slimmer' option of a battery. Thankfully I'm now very comfortably retired and have no need to carry a mobile office with me My son, daughter, wife and many friends (predominately professional people) carry a spare battery so the idea is hardly unused.”

I travel a fair bit (about 25,000 miles a year) but happen to have two phones, both of which are sealed batteries (HTC One and iPhone 5). On the odd occasion that I am out for the day away from my car I will carry a USB battery pack in my bag in case I am caught short. Seems a much better approach for the odd occasion than letting my choice of phone depend upon whether it has a replaceable battery. It's also quicker to plug in a USB cable than swap a battery.
Oh, and by the way, I don't know a single person among my circle of friends and colleagues who carry a spare battery.
tdenson
13-08-2013
Originally Posted by kidspud:
“Unless a smartphone can bring true additional functionality then one of those nfc stickers that go on the back of the phone would be just as useful.”

This is the point I keep making. I have a Barclaycard contactless card stuck to the back of my phone and I am starting to use it quite frequently. However, I am still waiting for anyone on this thread to explain to me what I can use NFC in my HTC One for, other than private techie things like switching profiles at a location - although even here I haven't found a compelling enough application that has made me want to get the tags I bought out of their wrapping and work out how to use them. But when it comes to the big wide world it seems that there just isn't anything you can use an NFC phone for.
kidspud
13-08-2013
Originally Posted by paulbrock:
“spare batteries are an old (and increasingly unsupported) way of keeping topped up.

powerpacks are the way forward. For something the size of my phone, I can charge up my phone twice and still have enough to charge my tablet up full too. ”

Originally Posted by tdenson:
“I travel a fair bit (about 25,000 miles a year) but happen to have two phones, both of which are sealed batteries (HTC One and iPhone 5). On the odd occasion that I am out for the day away from my car I will carry a USB battery pack in my bag in case I am caught short. Seems a much better approach for the odd occasion than letting my choice of phone depend upon whether it has a replaceable battery. It's also quicker to plug in a USB cable than swap a battery.
Oh, and by the way, I don't know a single person among my circle of friends and colleagues who carry a spare battery.”

Unfortunately my powermonkey has now died, so I'll have to look out for a new charger pack.

Any you would recommend (iPad mini & galaxy ace 2) are the devices I would use it on.
neo_wales
13-08-2013
I got a 50,000mAh power bank off ebay which has two USB outputs, one rated at 2.1A and this will charge your tablet or iPad a couple of times easily and your phone a lot of times if you have no easy access to mains power. I use mine to power a small portable ham radio rig. These are not lightweight but thats the price you pay if you want extra power.
neo_wales
13-08-2013
Originally Posted by tdenson:
“I travel a fair bit (about 25,000 miles a year) but happen to have two phones, both of which are sealed batteries (HTC One and iPhone 5). On the odd occasion that I am out for the day away from my car I will carry a USB battery pack in my bag in case I am caught short. Seems a much better approach for the odd occasion than letting my choice of phone depend upon whether it has a replaceable battery. It's also quicker to plug in a USB cable than swap a battery.
Oh, and by the way, I don't know a single person among my circle of friends and colleagues who carry a spare battery.”

Thank you for sharing, I'll sleep easy tonight knowing this
alanwarwic
16-08-2013
I think we may hope Apple never did see a use for it.

When Apple do something they first try to stop others.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/08...t_application/

" patents are as much about preventing others from creating products as they are for creating products."

If they get away with owning yet another syphilis like patent, then everyone else doing gift by bonk would have to maybe charge 1p.
So, any bets on what Apple will rename 'smart tags' to for something more iGlitzy?
swordman
16-08-2013
I think too many loopholes in that to be granted .. although stranger things have happened
moox
16-08-2013
Originally Posted by tdenson:
“This is the point I keep making. I have a Barclaycard contactless card stuck to the back of my phone and I am starting to use it quite frequently. However, I am still waiting for anyone on this thread to explain to me what I can use NFC in my HTC One for, other than private techie things like switching profiles at a location - although even here I haven't found a compelling enough application that has made me want to get the tags I bought out of their wrapping and work out how to use them. But when it comes to the big wide world it seems that there just isn't anything you can use an NFC phone for.”

You can read your Oyster card, or public transport ITSO card, or the RFID chip on your passport. Not exactly riveting uses but they are there.
IslandNiles
16-08-2013
A bit of NFC news re the Moto X here:

http://www.engadget.com/2013/08/16/moto-x-skip/
brangdon
16-08-2013
Originally Posted by noise747:
“Back to NFC and phones. what happens if your battery dies or if you got no signal?”

It should continue working.

Quote:
“I know that a normal NFC card don't need power or a signal, but that is because the terminal send the info, but do NFc on a phone need power?”

No. The terminal should be able to power the chip the same way.

I don't have one, but that's how I understand it works.

Originally Posted by kidspud:
“Unless a smartphone can bring true additional functionality then one of those nfc stickers that go on the back of the phone would be just as useful.”

Having a user interface ought to help, if only for configuring it. You should also be able to get a history of transaction.

One of the aims is to support things like loyalty schemes, which would presumably involve some UI. For example, I currently use a pre-paid bus card, which I could get rid of if my phone did the job.

All of that said, personally I think RFD belongs in a wristwatch or a ring rather than a phone. Preferably the watch, so it can have a bit of UI there too. (Specifically I'd want it to vibrate for every transaction, even small ones, and to vibrate if it gets too far away from my phone, and unlock my phone automatically when it is held in my hand.)
IslandNiles
16-08-2013
Originally Posted by brangdon:
“One of the aims is to support things like loyalty schemes, which would presumably involve some UI. For example, I currently use a pre-paid bus card, which I could get rid of if my phone did the job.”

I agree, which is why it seems strange that Google Wallet has just removed NFC support for gift and loyalty cards.
kidspud
16-08-2013
Originally Posted by brangdon:
“It should continue working.

No. The terminal should be able to power the chip the same way.

I don't have one, but that's how I understand it works.

Having a user interface ought to help, if only for configuring it. You should also be able to get a history of transaction.

One of the aims is to support things like loyalty schemes, which would presumably involve some UI. For example, I currently use a pre-paid bus card, which I could get rid of if my phone did the job.”

Nfc for payment on a phone requires the phone to be powered.

I can see a history of my transactions without the need for nfc, tha is what online banking is for.

I also already use a loyaly/payment card on my phone without nfc (Starbucks)
brangdon
16-08-2013
Originally Posted by kidspud:
“Nfc for payment on a phone requires the phone to be powered.”

No, it doesn't, for at least some phones, eg, some Blackberrys. That article says that all the NFC Blackberry phones support NFC payments when the battery is so dead the UI gets disabled, and some phones continue to to support it when the battery is completely dead. More generally, we know NFC in cards works without a battery, so there's no technical reason it shouldn't work without battery in a phone, either.
paulbrock
17-08-2013
here's a reason to have NFC
http://www.nfcworld.com/2013/07/24/3...-phone-owners/
paulbrock
17-08-2013
Originally Posted by kidspud:
“Nfc for payment on a phone requires the phone to be powered. ”

EE's solution apparently doesn't require the phone to be on either.

http://www.nfcworld.com/2013/07/03/3...nts-in-the-uk/

Quote:
“The network is pushing the convenience of mobile payments, pointing out that "it doesn't even matter if your phone's switched off, Cash on Tap will still work."”

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