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NFC Have you tried it yet?
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fletchem
19-09-2012
Originally Posted by carnivalist:
“What are "location-based switching" and "tags"?”

Tags are stickers (or key fobs) with passive RFID chips in them which can be programmed and read by NFC-enabled phones.

Using phone-based NFC software, I can set up a list of tasks and then assign them (write them) to a tag. Then, whenever my phone passes near the tag the phone carries out the list of commands - such as wireless off, bluetooth on etc. I put the tags in certain locations, like in my car, my hallway and my office. The tags are a little pricey at the moment, but will fall in price as they become more ubiquitous. You can buy them all over the place - I got mine from Amazon. HERE is a listing.
kidspud
19-09-2012
Originally Posted by fletchem:
“Tags are stickers (or key fobs) with passive RFID chips in them which can be programmed and read by NFC-enabled phones.

Using phone-based NFC software, I can set up a list of tasks and then assign them (write them) to a tag. Then, whenever my phone passes near the tag the phone carries out the list of commands - such as wireless off, bluetooth on etc. I put the tags in certain locations, like in my car, my hallway and my office. The tags are a little pricey at the moment, but will fall in price as they become more ubiquitous. You can buy them all over the place - I got mine from Amazon. HERE is a listing.”

Can you clarify something for me. When you say near the tag, how near do you need to be? It is like Oyster cards or is it several metres?
Izak
19-09-2012
I don't personally fancy paying for stuff through NFC so doubt I would use it, even if i had a phone that supported it.

To me it just sounds like a different type of Bluetooth.
Red Arrow
19-09-2012
Originally Posted by kidspud:
“Can you clarify something for me. When you say near the tag, how near do you need to be? It is like Oyster cards or is it several metres?”

Like an Oyster card, the phone has to pass a tag within a few cm's.
kidspud
19-09-2012
Originally Posted by Red Arrow:
“Like an Oyster card, the phone has to pass a tag within a few cm's.”

Thanks, that is what I thought. If that is the case surely bluetooth or geofence would be a better way of location based settings.
whoever,hey
19-09-2012
Originally Posted by kidspud:
“Thanks, that is what I thought. If that is the case surely bluetooth or geofence would be a better way of location based settings.”

Bluetooth needs security protocols and has much longer handshake times.
Geofence isn't very location accurate.
call100
20-09-2012
Originally Posted by welwynrose:
“What if you don't have a mobile phone”

It's not restricted to just phones....
kidspud
20-09-2012
Originally Posted by whoever,hey:
“Bluetooth needs security protocols and has much longer handshake times.
Geofence isn't very location accurate.”

I have no technical knowledge, but handshake times cannot be that long. My blackberry connects to my car in seconds.

I agree geofence is not that accurate, but NFC seems almost too accurate. I would have to walk to a specific place in my office to get my phone to register. My office site is over 3 acres in size!!!!
brangdon
20-09-2012
Originally Posted by noise747:
“don't matter do it?”

Details matter if you are doing a rational risk analysis. Stealing from the phone (or card) is a different risk to someone stealing the phone itself.

Quote:
“If they steal the phone they got access to it and no doubt someone will come up with a way of reading the chip and any data on it .”

And if someone steals your wallet they'll have access to all the cash and cards in that, too. Probably the phone itself will be worth more than the credit on it. At least with a phone you have the option of a remote wipe.

Originally Posted by dslrocks:
“There's a fatal flaw - smartphone battery life is bad enough as it is, with many phones lasting less than a day, if you use the features. If you ditched your wallet, you'd be stranded as the battery would be dead. I can fast see that scenario happening.”

No. It just doesn't work like that. The NFC is powered from the scanner, via induction. That's why the NFC chips in cards work even though the card doesn't have its own battery. The chips in phones are the same. They'll continue to work even when the phone's battery is dead.
wilt
20-09-2012
Originally Posted by brangdon:
“No. It just doesn't work like that. The NFC is powered from the scanner, via induction. That's why the NFC chips in cards work even though the card doesn't have its own battery. The chips in phones are the same. They'll continue to work even when the phone's battery is dead.”

There is a slight difference though - in order to process the payment via the phone, the NFC chip needs to interact with the phone software - this needs the phone to be turned on.
noise747
20-09-2012
Originally Posted by brangdon:
“Details matter if you are doing a rational risk analysis. Stealing from the phone (or card) is a different risk to someone stealing the phone itself.
”

Maybe, but it is still a insecure system

Quote:
“And if someone steals your wallet they'll have access to all the cash and cards in that, too. Probably the phone itself will be worth more than the credit on it. At least with a phone you have the option of a remote wipe.”

i normally only carry the amount of cash I need, plus a little bit more, at the start of the week I will take cash from the machine and then take it home and the card. so I don't normally have my card in my wallet apart from that day where I withdraw cash.

Sure i could lose my wallet on that day, but it is unlikely.

No doubt you are right about the phone being worth more than the credit. Still it will not worry me, the phone I got now don't have a NFc chip on and when i get another phone next year that one won't either.

Still got another 2 years before the bank change my debit card and to be honest I can't see that being a NFC card. i think NFC is failing as a payment system before it really got a grip
whoever,hey
20-09-2012
Originally Posted by noise747:
“Maybe, but it is still a insecure system



i normally only carry the amount of cash I need, plus a little bit more, at the start of the week I will take cash from the machine and then take it home and the card. so I don't normally have my card in my wallet apart from that day where I withdraw cash.

Sure i could lose my wallet on that day, but it is unlikely.

No doubt you are right about the phone being worth more than the credit. Still it will not worry me, the phone I got now don't have a NFc chip on and when i get another phone next year that one won't either.

Still got another 2 years before the bank change my debit card and to be honest I can't see that being a NFC card. i think NFC is failing as a payment system before it really got a grip”

You are clearly not the market for NFC then. Its like joining a discussion about the best credit card when you dont use them.
alanwarwic
03-08-2013
Surprisingly I used it for the first time this week.

There was a symbol stuck on top of the payment machine at my local LIDL..
They ave supposedly rolled it out 100%. For me, preferable to chip and pin, and with no need to remove the card from my wallet.
cnbcwatcher
04-08-2013
No but I'm not sure if my phone supports it.
kidspud
04-08-2013
Originally Posted by alanwarwic:
“Surprisingly I used it for the first time this week.

There was a symbol stuck on top of the payment machine at my local LIDL..
They ave supposedly rolled it out 100%. For me, preferable to chip and pin, and with no need to remove the card from my wallet.”

Did you pay with a card, or did you use your phone?
noise747
04-08-2013
Originally Posted by whoever,hey:
“You are clearly not the market for NFC then. Its like joining a discussion about the best credit card when you dont use them. ”

No, but they will still try and force it onto us, how many people now got a NFC card and have no choice in the matter?
neo_wales
04-08-2013
Originally Posted by noise747:
“No, but they will still try and force it onto us, how many people now got a NFC card and have no choice in the matter?”

You don't have to use it if you don't want so if and when you get a card just don't set up the NFC part, easy really.
Stiggles
04-08-2013
Originally Posted by noise747:
“No, but they will still try and force it onto us, how many people now got a NFC card and have no choice in the matter?”

What's your issue with this?

Either use it or don't

It's perfectly simple....
alanwarwic
04-08-2013
Quite obviously there, my card was at low risk of being skimmed and the PIN video recorded. I'll find NFC more convenient and safe doing more irregular purchases.

I don't have NFC on a phone but quite obviously there, it already has many current uses, as usual unacknowledged by some 'cause Apple do not do it'. It is probably far too non proprietary for Apple, just like USB

And yes, I guess it will be added to/used in conjunction with bluetooth as a security layer.
neo_wales
04-08-2013
Its just another way of paying for goods and has a low limit so convenient really.
noise747
04-08-2013
Originally Posted by neo_wales:
“You don't have to use it if you don't want so if and when you get a card just don't set up the NFC part, easy really.”

Originally Posted by Stiggles:
“What's your issue with this?

Either use it or don't

It's perfectly simple....”

From what I been told by people who have a NFc card, it is already set up when you receive it, you just need to do a purchase using chip and pin to activate it and it is done.

The Co-op for instance is now giving these cards out and will not allow people to go back to a non-NFC card and will not disable the NFC part.

So even if you don't use it as a NFC card, it is still enabled. so I will say it again, people are being forced to have these cards. Some banks will replace them with a normal chip and pin card, but many won't.

As I said thankfully, the Halifax don't seem to be in a rush to give push NFC onto debit cards at least.
Stiggles
04-08-2013
Originally Posted by noise747:
“From what I been told by people who have a NFc card, it is already set up when you receive it, you just need to do a purchase using chip and pin to activate it and it is done.

The Co-op for instance is now giving these cards out and will not allow people to go back to a non-NFC card and will not disable the NFC part.

So even if you don't use it as a NFC card, it is still enabled. so I will say it again, people are being forced to have these cards. Some banks will replace them with a normal chip and pin card, but many won't.

As I said thankfully, the Halifax don't seem to be in a rush to give push NFC onto debit cards at least.”

Jesus christ!!...

And i will say it once again to you. Now please pay attention.....

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO USE THE NFC PART...

Just put your card in like normal.

Not all cards from all banks are activated right away. If it scares you so much, go to a bank who don't activate them by default..

I'm surprised you have got this far in life so far with your frankly ludicrous fear of change....
kidspud
04-08-2013
Originally Posted by alanwarwic:
“Quite obviously there, my card was at low risk of being skimmed and the PIN video recorded. I'll find NFC more convenient and safe doing more irregular purchases.

I don't have NFC on a phone but quite obviously there, it already has many current uses, as usual unacknowledged by some 'cause Apple do not do it'. It is probably far too non proprietary for Apple, just like USB

And yes, I guess it will be added to/used in conjunction with bluetooth as a security layer.”

I would imagine that if you used your card in a reputable shop, it had as much risk of being skimmed as it did the nfc being read and stored.

Not sure what your comment about apple and USB means. I only have an iPad and that uses USB.

What security layer will nfc add? Does nfc have any security features?
alanwarwic
04-08-2013
Originally Posted by kidspud:
“I only have an iPad and that uses USB.”

The iPad also uses some bluetooth. You forgot the word 'some'.

What I do recall was that NFC became a much wider and slightly polarised topic of interest when it was realized the iPhone 5 was not going to adopt NFC, at the time even getting a write up in the Guardian.
noise747
05-08-2013
Originally Posted by Stiggles:
“Jesus christ!!...

And i will say it once again to you. Now please pay attention.....

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO USE THE NFC PART...”

and I will say it again, it is still on the card, which means if you lose the card it can be picked up and used without a pin. sure the banks will cover it for a while, but how long will that last and do you know how long it takes for you to get your money back?

Quote:
“
Just put your card in like normal.

Not all cards from all banks are activated right away. If it scares you so much, go to a bank who don't activate them by default..”

Why should I change my bank, with whom I have been with for years?

Quote:
“I'm surprised you have got this far in life so far with your frankly ludicrous fear of change....”

some changes are not needed, it is just a way for the banks to make even more money nothing is done to make it easier for us that is for sure.

Still, i doubt the Halifax will start putting out NFC debits cards for a few years, my card expires next year, so it will be another normal debit card.

Saying that I don't use it that often only to order online, I normally pay by cash, less hassle.
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