[Sambda]

Broadcasters and film-makers should really not give into these threats - it just lets the protesters know that their threats have worked. It's why we generally don't say yes to deals withn terrorists - in the long run it creates worse problems.

I see on the TV at the moment, burning of US flags by Muslims over some film or other (not the one mentioned in this thread).

[phylo_roadking]

...all because a rumour was started in Cairo that a film made in the U.S. defames the prophet - and the mass protests spread form there to Libya tonight and a U.S. diplomat has been killed.

Now - IF that rumour turns out NOT to be true...will we hear any apologies? Will anyone be brought to trial for murder?

I'll bet the answer turns out to have two letters, not three...

That's the problem with dogma - it's never wrong. It CAN'T ever be wrong...it can't ever be SEEN to be wrong.

[Voynich]

You're talking about this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19562692

Unbelievable.

[Fio Montoya]

Originally Posted by Grabid Rannies

Religions are benign peaceful institutions. You must deservedly die if you can't live with that.

Well put

[Goodfair]

From academic point of view, this movie has nothing to add.
Holland depended on Patricia Crone's Book:"Meccan Trade and the Rise of Islam". It was known that it was full of errors that had been discussed by Prof. Amal Arroobi.here

[What name??]

Originally Posted by rose-wh

No one likes their religion being criticized, it's akin to their family being attacked

No it's not. When people's family are attacked a person is harmed but when someone's religion is criticicized they usually (obvioulsy that doesn't apply to some bigots who move straight onto threatening those who have brains out of fear about the whole concept) are made to think. I know living with criticism and having to think is a very very hard for some people to accept but it is actually better than living with bigotry and threats of violence.

[Miss_Jones_982]

Shame on Channel 4 for backing down over this. They should ignore the nutters, not give in to them. What sort of message is it sending out?

[Charles II]

Originally Posted by Miss_Jones_982

Shame on Channel 4 for backing down over this. They should ignore the nutters, not give in to them. What sort of message is it sending out?

..Actually it sends out a good message about the true Islam, the same "religion of peace" that will arrest you in Saudi Arabia if you're caught praying to another God. The same religion of peace that forbids any non-Muslim from entering their sanctified holy ground and yet has no problems turning Bethlehem & Nazareth into mud heaps.

[SpeedOfLight]

Originally Posted by Miss_Jones_982

Shame on Channel 4 for backing down over this. They should ignore the nutters, not give in to them. What sort of message is it sending out?

So you would rather they put innocent lives at risk?

[What name??]

Originally Posted by SpeedOfLight

So you would rather they put innocent lives at risk?

Free speech and the ability to transmit knowledge openly is important enough to risk standing up to bigots for. I would rather the bigots were arrested and further bigots were inhibited from threatening other people rather than that they were obeyed and encouraged to continue because their methods are judged to be successful.

Channel 4 are sending out a disgaceful message by giving into the threats rather than standing up to them.

[Miss_Jones_982]

^^^ I just don't see why these people should be allowed to curb our freedom of speech.

And I hope the police are investigating whoever it is making these threats, and making the appropriate arrests.

[SpeedOfLight]

I can't help but think this is a marketing win for C4, the producers and the presenter. The programme was aired as scheduled. It's also available on 4OD, plus will no doubt be available in some form or other indefinitely. The only place it was not shown was at this private meeting. Obviously not really a big deal for C4. They aren't the moral or religious police and did the right thing - security wise.

I do wonder how some of you would feel if it was your family members being put at risk.

[SpeedOfLight]

Originally Posted by Miss_Jones_982

^^^ I just don't see why these people should be allowed to curb our freedom of speech.

And I hope the police are investigating whoever it is making these threats, and making the appropriate arrests.

So other than typing about it on an Internet forum, what exactly are you doing to protect our freedom of speech? You do also understand that in the UK, there is no such thing as true freedom of speech?

[juliancarswell]

Originally Posted by SpeedOfLight

So you would rather they put innocent lives at risk?

So what is the alternative?
Muslim states are already pressing the United Nations to ban the defaming of religions; that is, to help criminalize criticism of Islam. I have no doubt Christianity will happily reap the benefit of this.
These people who make these threats are bullies and have learned the lesson well that, if you threaten violence or even civil unrest, Governments and corporations here in the west will quickly fold like a pack of cards..
If you fold everytime they threaten you the only alternative is to never say or do anything that has any remote chance of offending them. Bearing in mind that they have an offenceometer set with a hair trigger, that means never talking about let alone even mildly challenging the religion of peace.
Ch4 should hang their heads in shame.

[SpeedOfLight]

Originally Posted by juliancarswell

So what is the alternative?
Muslim states are already pressing the United Nations to ban the defaming of religions; that is, to help criminalize criticism of Islam. I have no doubt Christianity will happily reap the benefit of this.
These people who make these threats are bullies and have learned the lesson well that, if you threaten violence or even civil unrest, Governments and corporations here in the west will quickly fold like a pack of cards..
If you fold everytime they threaten you the only alternative is to never say or do anything that has any remote chance of offending them. Bearing in mind that they have an offenceometer set with a hair trigger, that means never talking about let alone even mildly challenging the religion of peace.
Ch4 should hang their heads in shame.

The alternative? Well that's not for CH4 to implement. It's a TV company not a government.

Hang their heads? For making sure no one got hurt. Oh okay.

[rose-wh]

Can the police actually trace the Twitter user?

[rose-wh]

Originally Posted by phylo_roadking

...all because a rumour was started in Cairo that a film made in the U.S. defames the prophet - and the mass protests spread form there to Libya tonight and a U.S. diplomat has been killed.

Now - IF that rumour turns out NOT to be true...will we hear any apologies? Will anyone be brought to trial for murder?

I'll bet the answer turns out to have two letters, not three...

That's the problem with dogma - it's never wrong. It CAN'T ever be wrong...it can't ever be SEEN to be wrong.

It wasn't a rumor
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000....html?mod=e2tw

ETA The US ambassador and three other embassy officials were killed

[Miss_Jones_982]

Originally Posted by rose-wh

Can the police actually trace the Twitter user?

I think so, as they arrested that person who was tweeting offensive things to Tom Daley...

[johnF1971]

Originally Posted by Grabid Rannies

Religions are benign peaceful institutions. You must deservedly die if you can't live with that.

Yes indeed!

It's a pity many muslims don't see the irony of their threatening and aggressive behaviour whenever they or their "religion of peace" are mildly criticised or questioned.

[CatWolf]

wont someone think of the peaceful muslims?

[bspace]

one does wonder why so many police resources were recently devoted to tracing a couple of twitter users for the highly dangerous offence of trolling

but when we have death threats, there appears to be inactivity

[rose-wh]

Originally Posted by Miss_Jones_982

I think so, as they arrested that person who was tweeting offensive things to Tom Daley...

Of course, thanks.

[juliancarswell]

Originally Posted by bspace

one does wonder why so many police resources were recently devoted to tracing a couple of twitter users for the highly dangerous offence of trolling

but when we have death threats, there appears to be inactivity

Possibly because to arrest and process them will lead to more threats and violence. Yet again the authorities looking the other way.

Nick Cohen of The Guardian bravely sums it up better than I could.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lffXO_LLWo

[Richard46]

Originally Posted by Goodfair

From academic point of view, this movie has nothing to add.
Holland depended on Patricia Crone's Book:"Meccan Trade and the Rise of Islam". It was known that it was full of errors that had been discussed by Prof. Amal Arroobi.here

Started reading that; it is not written from an academic perspective but a religious one. Her statement here,,

"She trespassed all limits when
she criticized Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)".

,,is not compatible with an academic approach it is an expression of blind faith. If that is what passes for academic rigor in Islamic studies then we do have problems.

[phylo_roadking]

It wasn't a rumor

Twelve hours has indeed clarified things more.

However....

An open question now -

Does it make murder right?