Agree completely whilst what she is doing for the gay community promoting inclusivity and a positive attitude is great she kind of forced the point a little and became a bit where here etc and trying more to aim at the pink pound if anything and it was all a little uninspiring and cringe. And also whilst she promotes anti-bullying and inclusivity some of her loyal monsters shoot her in the foot by going entirely against those principles and makes her look like a hypocrite and its incredibly damaging to her credibility.

She needs to stop the stunts and the desperate attempts at shock tactics and relevancy i mean Joe Calderon at the MTV's is agreat example it was painful to watch she needs to bring it right back to basics and make a decent album with great video's to back it up

the last i heard, she was `inspired` by whitney houston on that track, but the clichés were there like you say. it probably will remain a `fan anthem` about tolerance and self acceptance.:yawn: with the irony being, that some of those fans need to have a bit more tolerance and be more accepting of other female artists that are not called lady gaga.:sleep:

..Like I said in time we will see what is what, btw do you remember Dido? she was getting the same rave reviews as Adele and the same media coverage...where is she now?

Also how many pop/rnb Rihanna-like princesses have there been in the last decade...remember Christian Milian? Ashanti? me neither.

At Least Gaga has a mystique and presence to stand the test of time, but like I said lets wait a few years to see who is right.

True and Alanis Morissette had staggering sales to and whilst never repeated is stilla solid presence 17 years on

And Rihanna is completely different to Ashanti and Christina Millian they had breif moderate success Rihann has had staggering success since 2009 whether she continues to have success she has had enough hits and tours to be remembered.

And as for mystique she has none she is old hat we know how she operates announce an album hype it up and come out in a whacky costume spewing some nonsense about the plight of a her minority of the moment her music is good and she ahs talent but she has beome a parody of herself and increasingly pretentious. She ha smillions of followers on social network where is the mystique when she is tweeting every abstract thought and haircut

I think the problem facing artists such as Dido, and Adele, is simply that they've done so well with one album, that everyone expects the next one to surpass it in quality. When the next album doesn't live up to the unrealistic expectations people have built up, they are very quick to write them off as an artist and we never hear from the again. Leona Lewis is another good example. Following on from 'Bleeding Love' everyone was expecting something so good that whatever she had produced would never have lived up the expectations people had built up, and she then become declared a flop. Artists need to find that fine line where they can stay popular without being too good. I think Rihanna does it well. She's very popular with my generation but she never releases anything of outstanding quality meaning that people never build up these unrealistic expectations. Although in Rihanna's case it does help that she releases new music so often that people don't have a chance to build up the expectations in the first place.

Its only Rihanna's outrageous personal life that has kept her in the media glare otherwise she would have been swept under the carpet by 2010, her songs do nothing to really reflect originality or growth and once people become tired of her media facade her sales in turn will decline rapidly.

Gaga to her credit is always looking to grow as an artist and entertain a wide range of musical paths, some of which is completely separate to cheesy dance pop.

Rihanna can't be that clueless given her popularity, sales, radio airplay; I could go on. And I don't think Adele should be written off just yet; wait and see what her next album brings.

You kind of push what I said earlier about Gaga fans though. Instead of coming into this thread and having a mature discussion, bringing up relevant points to backup your argument, you just come in, insult two other artists (both of whom have outsold Gaga, with one of them proving her longevity thus far having been around for longer than Gaga) and tell us that Gaga is the only current artist out there who could still be around in years to come. If that is your belief then back it up with some evidence, or an argument (and I don't mean a row) which leans us to a point where we can understand why you hold that belief. It's not enough just to enter a thread, slate everyone else mentioned and claim Gaga supreme; we need to know WHY you think that so that we can decide whether we agree or not, then comment on the points you have made.

Can I just say btw that Rihanna's last album didn't outsell Gaga's. Talk That Talk has sold the same as Born This Way in the UK (900,000) and three million copies less worldwide (TTT - 3m, BTW - 6m).

You clearly didn't pay attention to my early posts it seems, take a brief look at musical history in the past 10-15 years..how many Rihannas/Adeles have been churned out and how many are now still in the media spot-light? The next Rihanna and Adele is just around the corner whereas Gaga is both unique sonically & visually and btw I'm not even a Gaga fan.

I'm just not a naive idiot enough to believe Rihanna/Adele have long-term staying power.

When I say outsold, I am not referring to specific albums. I am also talking about singles, especially where Rihanna is concerned. Anyone remember the summer of 'Umbrella'?

But that is counter balancing my point and doesn't account for the fact she can sell out a WW tour and shift at least 3M albums people do not just buy her music for the sole purpose she was in heat last week her music may not be genre defining but its at least catchy and cpatures the public conciousness.

And actually Gaga's music is heavily steepid in 80's europop, Glam rock and electro or piano based power ballads a path she ahs yet to deviate from she is still stuck in the Pop anthem Concept album of sort wacky costume overly pretentious video which is her problme no actual growth and the same old tactics.

And Gaga is in as much a precarious position as any other as we are yet to see concrete evidence she is as versatile, different and special than any other.

Rihanna is in it for the long haul, just watch. As for Adele, I think she'll be fine. She is already massive enough to hold her own in the future.

As for this thread, can we really say until ARTPOP is released? She hasn't had new material for well over a year now, so she's on a bit of a downer. I think ARTPOP will bring a more general sound to it, which will bring up radio play, general fans etc.

I would class myself as Little Monster, just because I am a big fan, but I do wish she would tone that down. I'm sure people who are just casual music lovers will be intimidated by the stans in the fanbase. Their are quite a few crazies, not all or the majority, but enough to make things uncomfortable. I'd like to see less advertising through LM.com and more of a public message given out. I want it like the Fame Monster again. Keep the Little Monster tag, but very clearly redefine what that means, which should be more than just liking Gaga's songs.

But yes, the crazies don;t seem to get that they are the cause of quite a lot of the unfair criticism thrown at Gaga, especially on here.


PS. She is not my Mother, so I shall not be calling her it. That's one thing I hate, people calling her mummy. Queen is already a big statement to be throwing about like it is, Mother is too culty.

Firstly, I am not a naive idiot. Secondly, I never said that either of them have the power to make it for years to come. I did point out that Rihanna has already had more successful years than Gaga, so to say Rihanna won't have longevity beyond Gaga is unfair; if the Gaga train crashed next year then Rihanna would have already made it longer.

Finally, I wouldn't call Gaga original. Remember; I am a casual fan here. I am not here to slate; I am just here to give opinions, and on occasion fact. Barely anything Gaga has done has been original, either in sound or visually. Infact, She relies too heavily on shock value, and that gets boring very quickly. I am not denying her work is good, or that she may have longevity, I am just asking you not to slate every other artist on the planet and act like Gaga is the only one who can be successful; that is simply not true. I think a lot is riding on her next album. She has to keep casual fans interested to keep the sales up. Hopefully she will stop relying so much on the shock value and rely more on the music she creates; we know that she can create good music. She simply needs to move on and make that the focus; not acting bizarre all the time. Madonna relied heavily on shock value too, for a time, but she moved on and produced works such as Ray Of Light and Confessions On A Dancefloor, which were acclaimed not because she was kissing a black Jesus in the music videos, but because the music she released was amazing. Gaga can, and hopefully will do the same thing.But as you say, only time will tell. Lets hope that in five years time we are sat here discussing how brilliant her next album will be.

Rihanna should kiss the toes of Britney's then management for turning down Umbrella.

Rihanna is a singles artist with little talent, direction or involvement in the music her label produces for her. Hanging out at writing camps and having atrocious live vocals doesn't make a legend. Rihanna is overexposed. I like some of her songs but she could do with a good break.

Lady Gaga is already at the album/touring artist part of her music career, which is impressive. BTW isn't a bad album, the single choices were poor, though.

Exactly im coming from the same angle as a casual fan and therefore have a little less of a biased opportunity. Gaga has this idea that we have this perception of her and that we expect it so rather than creating music that holds its own without th need for shock tactics and stunts she will become a novelty and its wasting the potential she has and showed us not to compare her to anyone but at this point in her career Madonna had just released True blue like a virgin and was on to Like a prayer a move into more adult territory and critical acclaim will we say the same of ARTPOP ?

Whether Lady Gaga is out there to shock or not shock is irrelevant, she is clearly doing something with her image that has not been seen from a very popular female artist since the 80s.

Also musically she as I said is continuing to grow, the dance-pop Lady Gaga of 2008 is not the same Neo-Gothic Heavy Rock Lady Gaga of the last album, she is a process of continual change sonically & visually much like that other artist you mentioned who has enjoyed decades of success.

Rihanna has not shown any growth in her sound or her overall package, she remains in the limelight due to her non-musically related activities..most notably with that cretin of a boyfriend.

that`s right, slate every other female artist popular in the music business to avoid question.

Precisely Hav_mor91; she needs to stop trying to shock people and produce the type of music people know she can.

And Charles, the whole point I am making in that post is that the shock fact is completely relevant. Gaga seems to feel that she has to shock people to stay current and keep her in the spotlight. Truth is, it puts people off; it's not cool anymore. She should be focusing more on producing the high quality music that people know she can; shocking was a great tactic to get known but most of us have heard of her by now. She needs to stop trying to shock people all the time and produce the high quality music. That alone will keep her in the spotlight, keeping her current and popular. Artists such have Adele have highlighted the fact that as long as your music can hold it's own, people will buy your work. Gaga is at a stage in her career now where she doesn't need to shock anymore and she should be focusing more on the quality of her sound than anything else; that is what will keep people interested.

Plenty of postars ahve done what gaga has done wih her image Alison Goldfrapp, Christina Aguilera, Bjork, Bat For Lashes just a few examples and even before that Katy Perry had begun her own process which pre-dates gaga's arrival on the scene just because someone isn't in your face doesn't mean Gaga was the only one or has been.

And as for Neo-Goth heavy metal on BTW its a continuation of the glam rock stylings and electro on her earlier albums heavily still steeped in Dance Pop i am not doubting her talent just saying she isn't as brilliantly talented as people make her out to be she has yet to have a truly defining and groundbreaking album.which is where she needs tofocus her energy and make people appreciate what talent she ha srather than shaving the back of her head.

Agree 100%

Why thank you

It's not dfficult to see though it was almost certai in 2009 that she would be the dominant female and yet people like Katy Perry who have kept things simpl may not have sold much have been more successful says all it needs too simplicty goo music, and a solid campaign.

Sometimes it feels like she's trying a little bit too hard to create a legacy for herself/to fashion herself into pop culture.

The ironic thing is a lot of the time, her tunes are strong enough by themselves to do that, all the effort she's making sort of overcooks the whole thing.

Going back to what the OP was saying, putting aside that their post was a total fail on the O2 front, yes I do think her popularity has decreased.

However even with that decrease, Born This Way's WW sales and WW year end chart position speak for themselves; she's also on a tour that is going to out gross her last with half as many dates; adding that to the fact that tour will again become one of the biggest tours of all time (Rihanna for example has yet to do that once, never mid twice); and she's still biggest bitch in current music WW whose name isn't Adele.

I also don't think that decline in popularity is quite as big as some like to make out anyway. According to my research that I was sad enough to do a few months ago using year end charts - The Fame and The Fame Monster both have sold 8m copies each, Born This Way has sold 6m copies. There's a decrease yes no doubt but only one of 2m, and that's far less of a decrease in sales than what the other Queen of current music Rihanna experiences between Loud and Talk That Talk for example; and far less than what some people would like to make out.

Just to say, that is still a decrease of one quarter; which considering it's really only the second album, is quite a lot. Add the fact that TFM as an era sold 16m copies, you could say this era is down 10m copies. We already know there won't be a 'deluxe' edition of BTW; she is moving on, so when you look at it like that, it is one hell of a fall. But I really do think it all comes down to ARTPOP. I think BTW missed the mark for a LOT of people; hopefully she can reign it back with AP. I think MOST artists have, and expect a decline after releasing an album as popular as TF/TFM was. It's tough to keep that momentum going.