[johnnymc]

Is that quite important to the fabric of the show or don't you mind when time is rewritten or forgotten or changed or pulled out of shape by whatever producer?does doctor who need some sort of reality or grounding for it to work? It is sci fi after all and things can be moved around more easily or explained away.

[ea91]

Yes.

[kyllerbuzcut]

Usually things can be explained with a couple of minutes thought anyway. Especially as it is sci fi like you say. It makes it a whole lot easier.

When there are massive howlers in a TV programme though it can really put you off. Like if you've been watching any of the Spartacus series'. If suddenly next week there's an episode and someone has a digital watch on then that'd be hard to explain away

I can't really think of any massive howlers recently on Doctor Who. (There are a few small ones like Rory's bade in series 5 but that can be explained within the context of the show. That whole series turned out to be about time vanishing all over the place, disappearing through cracks.)

Even potential huge catastrophe's, like the main actor not being in it have an excuse and a way out in this show. Like when The Doctor suddenly regenerated, to be played by Sylvester McCoy. They didn't even need the previous actor to be there. ( yeah I know the scene ended up looking pretty crap, but they tried).


So yeah- I would say it has to have overall continuity. It's a time and space sci fi show about a humanoid alien who travels around with human friends and 'accidentally' ends up finding baddies everywhere they go. Like you can't suddenly have one of the companions, e.g have Rory decide he is going to become a pimp and start selling crack on the side to children. Every planet they go to he has to go find some children and recover the crack cocaine he's hidden around the tardis to sell them it.

But little plot points that can be explained, even if you don't know HOW to explain it, you just know there has to be an answer there somewhere, are perfectly fine. Like at the moment, the same actress looks like she might be playing 2 different characters in the same series. But there are plenty of theories out there to what this really means etc.

[silentNate]

If you truly understood how time and dimensions worked you'd be too busy crying tears at the wonderment to realise that all is possible in a multi-universe

[johnnymc]

I just wondered because fans of the show seem to get fairly hung up on the detail of the programme or errors in the script whether doctor who, more than other shows, needs a continuity or it upsets or even looses the audience. And it seems interesting than some things can be pretty much changed for example the doctor can now it seems regenerate into a woman but other fundamentals cannot eg he is a time lord

[JohnnyForget]

Ever since 1963 continuity was established in one story, and then contradicted in another. Doctor Who is a mass of contradictions and anomalies, but half the fun of being a Doctor Who fan is trying to come up with explanations, however crazy or fanciful, to resolve all those contradictions and anomalies.

[Shoppy]

Originally Posted by JohnnyForget

Ever since 1963 continuity was established in one story, and then contradicted in another. Doctor Who is a mass of contradictions and anomalies, but half the fun of being a Doctor Who fan is trying to come up with explanations, however crazy or fanciful, to resolve all those contradictions and anomalies.

Like for instance...

The Doctor, being a Time-sensitive being, is aware of changes in timelines.
An event early in the classic series can be ret-conned later in the classic series so that it didn't happen (the various Dalek invasions of Earth for instance) but the Doctor, like the audience, will have memories of how it originally happened.

This means it can't be considered a continuity error if the Doctor references both versions of history in new series dialogue, he's simply looking on the wrong shelf in the memory cupboard.

You could also explain the Doctor's physical age being reduced to 900 by the start of the new series (even though the Seventh Doctor was at one point 953) by saying that the Time War probably resulted in bits being deleted from his past and the freyed ends being joined up like a broken piece of string.

Wibbly wobbly etc....

[Sniffle774]

Originally Posted by Shoppy

Like for instance...

The Doctor, being a Time-sensitive being, is aware of changes in timelines.
An event early in the classic series can be ret-conned later in the classic series so that it didn't happen (the various Dalek invasions of Earth for instance) but the Doctor, like the audience, will have memories of how it originally happened.

This means it can't be considered a continuity error if the Doctor references both versions of history in new series dialogue, he's simply looking on the wrong shelf in the memory cupboard.

You could also explain the Doctor's physical age being reduced to 900 by the start of the new series (even though the Seventh Doctor was at one point 953) by saying that the Time War probably resulted in bits being deleted from his past and the freyed ends being joined up like a broken piece of string.

Wibbly wobbly etc....

LOVE that theory.

[James Frederick]

Originally Posted by Shoppy

You could also explain the Doctor's physical age being reduced to 900 by the start of the new series (even though the Seventh Doctor was at one point 953) by saying that the Time War probably resulted in bits being deleted from his past and the freyed ends being joined up like a broken piece of string.

I just put that down to like humans once we reach a certain age we lie and knock a few years off and so do Time Lords

[kyllerbuzcut]

I like that shoppy. I think that's an excellent description of how it works.

[tscchope]

This is the Doctor's own timeline that would have to ber altered. The Time War was just as likely to have added years as taken them off.A simpler explanation is that the Docotr think he'll get more attractive female companions if he says he's only 900 than if they think h's closer to a thousand. Fot there to a nan screen explanation 11 would have to meet someone who knew 7, like Ace.

Invasions of Earth by the Daleks in 2150 and 2250 did happen as attested to by the presence of the companions. Different face on the Doctor explained simply that the Doctor wants to confuse the Daleks and is done by using regeneration energy to change the faceand look , but isn't perfect or permanent.

Earth attained interstellar travel in the late 22nd century. There were no ships in orbit in 2367 nor any battlestations for if the Daleks did make another attack. Likewise one would expect Earth to detect a ship the size of Canada when it was further than 6 hours away. One would also expect the designers of a ship with an automatic go home command to come equipped with a stop command ,too.

Contrary to what gaiman thinks male timelords cannot become female or viceversa. I imagine Academy classes on Gallifrey dealt with regeneration. Remembering thast would have made Matt Smith's regeneration different and less cringe inducing. The Tardis doesn't regenerate with the Doctor, it can change its shape or internal structure at will. Arton energy is harmeless, merely denotes travelling in time. Being conceived on a Tardis does not make one part timelord any more than being conceived in a car makes the baby part combustion engine. The vortex energy is shielded from travellers in the Tardis.

Time is not wibbly wobbly and for God's sake leave such babytalk to babies!

[allen_who]

Nah course there is no continuity at all

It's just a good vehicle for story telling, that 's it - end off!

Lot's of stories contradict other stories time and events. But it really doesn't matter at all

[nebogipfel]

Originally Posted by tscchope

This is the Doctor's own timeline that would have to ber altered. The Time War was just as likely to have added years as taken them off.A simpler explanation is that the Docotr think he'll get more attractive female companions if he says he's only 900 than if they think h's closer to a thousand. Fot there to a nan screen explanation 11 would have to meet someone who knew 7, like Ace.

Invasions of Earth by the Daleks in 2150 and 2250 did happen as attested to by the presence of the companions. Different face on the Doctor explained simply that the Doctor wants to confuse the Daleks and is done by using regeneration energy to change the faceand look , but isn't perfect or permanent.

Earth attained interstellar travel in the late 22nd century. There were no ships in orbit in 2367 nor any battlestations for if the Daleks did make another attack. Likewise one would expect Earth to detect a ship the size of Canada when it was further than 6 hours away. One would also expect the designers of a ship with an automatic go home command to come equipped with a stop command ,too.

Contrary to what gaiman thinks male timelords cannot become female or viceversa. I imagine Academy classes on Gallifrey dealt with regeneration. Remembering thast would have made Matt Smith's regeneration different and less cringe inducing. The Tardis doesn't regenerate with the Doctor, it can change its shape or internal structure at will. Arton energy is harmeless, merely denotes travelling in time. Being conceived on a Tardis does not make one part timelord any more than being conceived in a car makes the baby part combustion engine. The vortex energy is shielded from travellers in the Tardis.

Time is not wibbly wobbly and for God's sake leave such babytalk to babies!

Thank heavens we have a real life Time Lord on the forum to put the makers of the show right on these matters. Although, that can't be right because you said you had to "imagine" what the Acadamy may or may not have taught. Possibly in much the same way the writers "imagine" what they want to put in their stories. Contradicting themselves and each other frequently over the years.

[MinkytheDog]

Continuity in DW is important simply because time is a character in the show and is not linear. If a character in a scene in Eastenders suddenly has different earrings than they were wearing a minute before, it's an obvious gaff - but in DW, that same thing could have a specific meaning such as showing that there's been a gap or jump in time.

Don't forget that it's only down to continuity that the "Doctor" has a "blue police box" called the "TARDIS" every week. None of those things are real and any of them could be changed by any writer at any time. I can't imagine too many people brushing that aside or saying "use your imagination".

I have a good imagination and can easily come up with ways to explain away any gaff or continuity error - but I'm effectively paying someone else to write the stories and I think it's reasonable to ask that they do that job well. If I wanted to "imagine" great chunks of a story, I'd just shut my eyes and not bother with watching the TV.

If we had watched a story in which it was categorically shown and stated that every single Cyberman in the universe has exploded and there are absolutely definitely none left, I don't think it's right to show one walking down the high street in Padstow a fortnight later with no explanation. Yes, I could sit here thinking up excuses for that gaff - like saying that perhaps that one was hiding in the biscuit aisle at Tescos and the Jaffa cakes just happen to have absorbed all of the radiation that killed the others - but I'd far rather that was explained in the show.

[kyllerbuzcut]

That's just ridiculous. Jaffa cakes cannot absorb that sort of radiation. it would have had to be the jammy dodgers obviously :P

[Gogfumble]

Continuity does not bother me in one little bit as long as the story or resolution to a story isn't so far fetched that it is ridiculous. And I can only think of one instance (in New Who) where the resolution has been so far fetched and that is Love and Monsters. Which really is more of a story fault than a continuity one.

[MinkytheDog]

Originally Posted by kyllerbuzcut

That's just ridiculous. Jaffa cakes cannot absorb that sort of radiation. it would have had to be the jammy dodgers obviously :P

Every time someone mentions jammy dodgers, I assume the Daily Mail has had another rant about people on benefits

[sovietusername]

In an infinite universe, not only is anything possible, but everything must be possible. There is a world populated by super intelligent rice krispies. There's a world where God is real (and he's best friends with Buddha and Thor). There's a world where Dr Who is real . And there's worlds, where every passing moment, every second of existence, bears absolutely no relation whatsoever to what came before it.

[garbage456]

would be nice but not really required

[Tom Tit]

Originally Posted by johnnymc

Is that quite important to the fabric of the show or don't you mind when time is rewritten or forgotten or changed or pulled out of shape by whatever producer?does doctor who need some sort of reality or grounding for it to work? It is sci fi after all and things can be moved around more easily or explained away.

Okay, this is one of my pet hates: "It's Sci-Fi, so it doesn't have to make sense". Wrong. If any genre does have to have a consistent, internal logic it is science fiction ie. fiction based upon scientific concepts. What you are thinking of as Science Fiction is Science Fantasy (which Doctor Who is a more proper example of than science fiction).

I get sick of people who have never read a book, but have seen Star Trek and think that is the sum total of 'Sci-Fi' content. It is far more diverse than people flying around the Universe in spaceships. That is just one (rather dull, generally) trope of the genre.

As Doctor Who is Science fantasy (fantasy being the genre that can be driven more by whimsy than logic), and story driven, then I think it can (and always has) wear it's continuity very lightly. Nothing wrong with that.

Originally Posted by sovietusername

In an infinite universe, not only is anything possible, but everything must be possible. There is a world populated by super intelligent rice krispies. There's a world where God is real (and he's best friends with Buddha and Thor). There's a world where Dr Who is real . And there's worlds, where every passing moment, every second of existence, bears absolutely no relation whatsoever to what came before it.

The universe isn't infinite.

[kyllerbuzcut]

That recent Star Trek film of a few years ago is a good example of how bad continuity and bad, unexplainable, plot holes can totally damage a film/story.

[James Frederick]

Originally Posted by kyllerbuzcut

That recent Star Trek film of a few years ago is a good example of how bad continuity and bad, unexplainable, plot holes can totally damage a film/story.

That was explained that it was an alternate universe not the one we know

[kyllerbuzcut]

Originally Posted by James Frederick

That was explained that it was an alternate universe not the one we know

That was about the only thing that did make some sort of sense in the movie.

How about Spock just waiting a couple of miles from a federation outpost, for days it seems, to sit and wait to watch his planet get blown up? He only thought about going there to do something about it when Kirk arrived. Plus he had to show Kirk the way, so obviously knew exactly where it was.

Also the big badass spaceship waiting around for 20 years for Kirk and crew to grow up before they thought about resuming their anger driven revenge mission. No one else in the galaxy even noticing they were there. Those are just some I can think of right now. There were more than that.