G4 are differant from the music we teens are used to listen to, this is probably why many find it hard to accept them, however this does not mean they ae no good or do not have the x factor. I think they have just as much chance of winning as steve does, because lets face it there isnt much music like steves out at the moment either is there! Also look at Il Divo, they are very similar to G4 and are taking europe by storm.... maybe similar things may be awaiting g4??

It's vibrato.

Opera singers still do project to a large audience with no amplification, it wasn't just in the old days, and vibrato has less to do with vocal projection and more to do with what makes a voice 'operatic', if you get my meaning! Part and parcel of the style that is opera.



True, but Freddie (although classically trained) was NOT an opera singer! G4 did sing BR in a far more operatic style than Queen but, at the end of the day, that's what G4 do. Present non-opera in an operatic style.



Thanks, kippery, I've found someone who agrees with me This is what I meant when I said previously that people need to stop expecting what G4 do to sound like the original. Their arrangements are their own, not meant to be 'better' or 'worse' that the original versions, just different. G4 vocalised quite a lot of what was originally the instrumental, they were absolutely not trying to reproduce Queen's version.



I guess that is down to opinion, at the end of the day, but now I understand what you mean, so thanks for explaining it! I guess people either 'get on' with an operatic voice or they don't. G4 are like Marmite

That's an incredibly nasty thing to say about marmite

The main problem I have with G4 is the lack of any discernable feeling or emotion in any of the songs they've covered so far, but maybe that's down to the technicality of their singing.
Personally, I'd rather listen to someone who maybe isn't a tecnically superb singer, but who sounds as if they mean what they're singing and has the ability to move me.

Thanks Spellbound although I think you may have realised that when I opined "bears absolutely no comparison" I actually meant "bears absolutely no FAVOURABLE comparison"....!!

I love Marmite by the way.

Out of interest I believe tremolo is amplification modulation (AM) and vibrato is pitch (frequency) modulation (FM). If Jon's operatic voice is FM, I am not sure I know what AM sounds like.....can you point me to any examples?

Tune into Radio4 (FM) and Talk Sport (AM) - you'll soon see the difference

I was quite stunned to read Spellbound's account of G4's talents, showmanship et al. I began to think I was the only opera-loving person with a totally opposite view....that is until I read Kippery's reply.....with which I am in total agreement.

I have been an opera fan for years and have seen some fine productions and heard some fine operatic voices. I am also a fan of many different types of music from rock to musical theatre etc. I find G4's sound very hard and quite shrill at times with the blonde guy forcing much of his vocals. For me, any vocalist or group, however talented, must bypass the ear and reach the heart. G4 do not do that for me, not one little bit, so, alongside my criteria , they fail as performers and musical communicators!

Of course, this is all a matter of taste I guess - my wife thinks, like Spellbound, they do blend well. And she usually has the last word...!!

I believe *Eileen* is an opera lover with similar views on G4...

Yep you are right, I've just read Heartfelts last post and his middle paragraph is exactly how I feel about Jonathons voice and G4 in general.

Couldn't have put it better myself

Can't say I'm a classical music buff but have seen a few operas and been trained in classical music as part of a music course.
I can't agree more there is no softness in there voice, they cannot convey feeling or emotion. They sang O holy night like they were singing a marching anthem rather than a gentle hymn.

I'm not musical person, but from my science! background I'd of said vibrato (amplitude modulated - ie, volume) is when you hold the note but the volume goes up and down - very operatic in my notional view of opera.

Tremolo (frequency modulated, ie - pitch) is where you hold the volume but 'wobble' between notes.

I'd have thought Whitney Houston was good at both. Used to drive me quackers.

Didn't listen for such things in G4s performance.

G4 performed best last week. Their rendition of Oh Holy Night and Bohemian Rhapsody was outstanding.

Other way around

http://www.vibroworld.com/magnatone/vibrato.html

Thanks for that but after some research I gather it's actually the other way around, and usually both effects are present ...

" The primary contributors to the quality or timbre of the sound of a musical instrument are harmonic content, attack and decay, and vibrato. The ordinary definition of vibrato is "periodic changes in the pitch of the tone", and the term tremolo is used to indicate periodic changes in the amplitude or loudness of the tone. So vibrato could be called FM (frequency modulation) and tremolo could be called AM (amplitude modulation) of the tone. Actually, in the voice or the sound of a musical instrument both are usually present to some extent.

The term vibrato for the singing voice is more commonly used to describe the variations in the voice during a sustained note. When analyzed, it is found that both the pitch and amplitude change periodically so that both vibrato and tremolo are present. The presence of vibrato, within limits, adds richness and expression to the voice. It is often the case that the amount of vibrato increases as a given note is sustained, and many singers use variations of vibrato for expression in singing. Excessive vibrato gives an impression of instability to the tone, so control of the amount of vibrato is a matter of practice and musical judgement.

If the precise harmonic content of a sustained voice sound is reproduced and sounded, the ear can easily distinguish the sound without the vibrato. Stanley suggests that a good vibrato rate for the singing voice is about 6 pulses per second, and that the average pitch variation is about a semitone accompanied by about 3 decibels of intensity variation. The amount of vibrato tends to increase with loudness, reaching about a full tone for very loud vocalization (fortissimo)."


So thanks to Stanley then....respect due......

i agree with the O Holy Night comment

munta you got there first !

Must check out "Vibroworld" though...sounds a bit kinky...

i wonder if i can buy a xmas present there

Not at all, heartfelt. I have spoken to many people who enjoy opera but don't like G4, and I'm not necessarily suprised, what G4 do at the moment is not 'opera'!

I am a lover of opera, yes, but I would have to say my main passion is the classical voice - everything about it, not just opera. I have also seen, heard and sung with many international opera stars and agree that the lads of G4 cannot be compared, they are far too young for a start.

I have also worked with literally hundreds of classical singers of around the same age as the lads of G4, and have also heard a good few male quartets and sextets, and it is on this I base my evaluation. Singers do not graduate from the Guildhall and head straight for a principal contract with the Royal Opera House, the voice has to be allowed to develop with age.

With ref to the blending, I would agree that some of this has been 'lost' through production. The backing tracks, amplification etc masks it somewhat. Perhaps this is partly due to sound technicalities on the show, perhaps in part because G4 are new to singing with microphones. Hearing them sing acapella at the start of X Factor and more recently on daytime tv leaves me in no doubt that these four voices do indeed blend beautifully.

Some of the production HAS been awful. Much of the time last week you couldn't hear the other 3 apart from a vague humming sound which could equally have been on the backing track for all we know !

I agree with this Spellbound
As I have said before I loved G4 at first it was so natural
and sort of raw .but now its gone for me

Maybe Simon thinks the same ? as he loved them too at first
hopefully any album made will let them do it their way

I know, and it drives me nuts I've also notced that whoever the camera zooms in on happens to suddenly be the loudest. A bit of a poor show really.

Yet when G4 sing elsewhere they don't have this problem. Even singing with mics on Entertainment Today the blending was fab. If ET can get it right, why can't XF?

annanotherthing....the daft audience doesn't help ...at one point they almost seemed to be starting a "clap-along" to BR and were applauding over the ending...

LOL I know! I was cursing them to shut up and let me listen, but then, the second time around, they did....wonder if they got told to shut up a bit

I don't think the audience's enthusiasm is a problem, but there should definitely be less emphasis on it from a production POV.

They say confession is good for the soul, Spellbound, so my soul is going to get a boost now!

I must admit to having commented on the production values of the prog. and that the 'sound' of G4 was probably being distorted by very poor 'microphone balance'. It is also true that for them, and other contestants, their reprise when they had to sing again has often been better (perhaps the technicians have scarpered to their cubby holes for a quick swig).

Lol personally I reckon they should stay there

well, ive just heard one of the songs they r going to cover tomorrow is 'Creep' by Radiohead.

That's a superb song - when Radiohead do it.
When G4 do it - it will be ridiculous, crass and facile.