[roger_50]

Originally Posted by ferg

Why should everything strive to be the same kind of thing though, I can't think of any BBC or ITV dramas that you'd be able to guess who wrote or directed just by the way it feels, rather than it's subject matter.

I never said everything should strive to be the same.

But if a deliberate style impacts on the potential quality of the story-telling, then it's still a negative against the show - regardless of whether it's intentional or not.

There are ways of having a certain style and still telling the story brilliantly - but with Poliakoff I feel he's never worked out how to do that. All in my opinion of course.

[ferg]

I think we basically agree it's just that I like that he sticks to his style over content, most negative reviews tend to be 'why can't this change' but I like that we get to see it this way again and again.

[Jo09]

Originally Posted by BellaRosa

I will have to watch last nights again as I thought it was very flat.

It was obvious that it was Julian as the killer and not sure they said why he did it?

As it was Julian why did Louis have to still be on the run?

The weird looking people that kept being shown... there was no explaination for them?

All very confusing but admit I was trying to do 2 things at once for the first 15 mins

This.

[TiffanyThorne]

I was engrossed by the final episode. The cast, especially John Grossman and Tom Hughes, gave outstanding performances. John Goodman's Mr Masterson didn't do much in the first couple of episodes aside from spending money lavishly and being mysterious. Given his taciturnness, his grief over Julian was all the more moving. Julian's coming apart was extremely unnerving, especially his behavior at Donaldson's house. Odd that Donaldson called the cops when Lewis sought sanctuary at his house and called Masterson when Julian wanted to hide out. I appreciated how the last episode left the viewer to work out answers to some of the questions the previous episodes raised. Lady Cremone's assumption that Lewis had to be the culprit was shocking. it was very effective how we saw her begin to puzzle Masterson's motivations behind his actions. I was wondering why Pamela was so intent on helping Lewis escape, whether it was out of guilt over her brother being the real murderer, or simply out of affection and friendship.

The ending was a little too wish fufilling, with everybody back at the hotel and back being friends. The manager assumed like so many others that the brining in a black band brought in violence and scandal and he couldn't wait to kick the band members out . Surely he wouldn't be so welcoming to engage them again, even if Lewis was revealed to be innocent, and surely Carla and the band wouldn't be so happy to perform there again after the hotel treated them like criminals. I should say everybody was back at the hotel and the newspaper where they were before, except Masterson, Julian, and Lewis. Why did Lewis ring from France to say he was taking a boat to the US? I suppose he was joining his previous manager who hopefully escaped legal difficulties (perhaps by staying out of Chicago he was able to escape the rape charge). Why at the end was he alone far away from the friends who stood by him?

But then again so many other questions the show raised lingered in my mind.The optimism of the earlier episodes had gone sour. Maybe it was suggesting that for a lucky few acceptance by general society was possible but for others it wasn't. And that acceptance, the lucky ones realised, could disappear in a moment.

So many images from last night's episode were stunning: Lewis in his tux at the bowls club with the staring members all in white, Lewis playing piano for the ballet students, Clara in her amazing coat (where did they get such a luxurious coat for her to wear at such short notice) the drunk toff teasing Lewis the servant about how Carla addressed him, Pamela stepping up to the plate, cooly speaking to the train guard to sidestep the passport examination, Sarah surrounded by her photos , being questioned by the police, and her nerve failing, Julian, Donaldson, and Masterson in the cafe, the waitress screaming, Masterson breaking down in tears over Julian. Fantastic television.

I wonder what the upcoming "interview" with Lewis will be like.

[Severian]

Poliakoff has had so many shots at these subjects before, with very little variation in style. His style is still quite childish. That's not meant in a good way, as in 'child-like', in fact he doesn't seem to have developed beyond adolescence. The moralizing about class and race came across like a lecture from a sixth-former at a public school.

In a more claustrophobic setting his screenplays can be effective, but I think the sweep of this story was too much for his style. The characters moved around it like a troupe of clog-dancers.

[Collins1965]

I loved the first 3 episodes but was a bit disappointed in the last 2 - Julian being the murderer was a bit obvious. I thought it would have been more interesting if Arthur had done it to bring shame on the Hotel so that it would be sold and he could pick it up for next to nothing.

I was also let down by Lady Cremone's lack of empathy for Louis and the way she carried on like a spoilt child at Stanley "ruining her day" by trying to help him. I had really liked her up to that.

The way Masterson carried on about Julian I thought he was in love with him!

And finally, why did Louis have to stay away once his name was cleared??? Made no sense to me.

[maggie_07]

Originally Posted by Collins1965

I loved the first 3 episodes but was a bit disappointed in the last 2 - Julian being the murderer was a bit obvious. I thought it would have been more interesting if Arthur had done it to bring shame on the Hotel so that it would be sold and he could pick it up for next to nothing.

I was also let down by Lady Cremone's lack of empathy for Louis and the way she carried on like a spoilt child at Stanley "ruining her day" by trying to help him. I had really liked her up to that.

The way Masterson carried on about Julian I thought he was in love with him!

And finally, why did Louis have to stay away once his name was cleared??? Made no sense to me.

He wouldn't have found out about Julian until he had got to France. Why would he then want to come back to a country that was prepared to hang him for a crime he didn't commit?

Lady Cremone didn't have any empathy for Louis because she thought he was a murderer at first as she believed the police. It wasn't till later that she gradually realised he probably didn't do it, and then she delayed leaving the hotel and tried to find out the truth by questioning Masterson.

[Jenny1986]

Originally Posted by Collins1965

And finally, why did Louis have to stay away once his name was cleared??? Made no sense to me.

I got the impression he decided to start an new life in America regardless of the outcome with Julian. Like he had too many bad memories to go back, not that he was in danger and couldn't go back.

[FilliA]

I don't think the idea of Louis not wanting to come back to a country prepared to execute him for a crime he didn't commit holds up. His close friend was sent back to the US to face the death penalty for a crime he didn't commit. None of it stands up to scrutiny if you try to look past the pretty surface of this.

Maybe there's a touch of the emperors new clothes about Poliakoff, so many people say he is great that others go along with it. To me there was great potential for a cracking story here, it just all fell flat.

[maggie_07]

Originally Posted by FilliA

I don't think the idea of Louis not wanting to come back to a country prepared to execute him for a crime he didn't commit holds up. His close friend was sent back to the US to face the death penalty for a crime he didn't commit. None of it stands up to scrutiny if you try to look past the pretty surface of this.

Maybe there's a touch of the emperors new clothes about Poliakoff,so ma ny people say he is great that others go along with it. To me there was great potential for a cracking story here, it just all fell flat.

That's extremely insulting to accuse people who like Poliakoff of not having minds of their own and "going along with others". I watch what I enjoy not what other people think is great and I like the Poliakoff plays I have seen so far although I haven't seen many.

I am quite able to "look past the pretty surface" as you say. I could understand Louis not wanting to come back to England. Even though Julian had confessed, Louis's name would always be associated with the whole affair. The upper classes would have resented him and blamed him for Julian getting into this situation as they would stand by their own (look at Lord Lucan). Many would still believe he did it and may be reluctant to support him. It would have been impossible to revive his career here whereas he may not have been known in America.

His friend would have been facing the death penalty in America for a relationship with a white woman. Louis is not likely to make that mistake over there.

[FilliA]

Sorry, no insult intended . I am just baffled by the high esteem he's held in if all his work is as unconvincing as this.

Who do you think smashed up the hotel suite? Was the girl just drunk or did Julian beat her up? Was he lying to Jessie about an agent wanting to see her, and why was he armed with a knife? I am genuinely interested in the above because the crime at the heart of the story makes no sense to me.

[Collins1965]

Originally Posted by FilliA

Sorry, no insult intended . I am just baffled by the high esteem he's held in if all his work is as unconvincing as this.

Who do you think smashed up the hotel suite? Was the girl just drunk or did Julian beat her up? Was he lying to Jessie about an agent wanting to see her, and why was he armed with a knife? I am genuinely interested in the above because the crime at the heart of the story makes no sense to me.

I think it would have been good to show the murder in flashback. I think he lied about the producer and when he tried it on with her she rejected him and he lost it and killed her. Where the knife came from is anyones guess.

[maggie_07]

Originally Posted by FilliA

Sorry, no insult intended . I am just baffled by the high esteem he's held in if all his work is as unconvincing as this.

Who do you think smashed up the hotel suite? Was the girl just drunk or did Julian beat her up? Was he lying to Jessie about an agent wanting to see her, and why was he armed with a knife? I am genuinely interested in the above because the crime at the heart of the story makes no sense to me.

Poliakoff seems to divide opinions. I haven't seen all his work so I can't judge all of them but the ones I have seen I have found fascinating. He doesn't explain every little thing and I think leaves some things for the viewer to work out but I haven't found anything unconvincing. Everything fell into place at the end.

Julian's mental state was gradually deteriorating, so it seems that he smashed up the room and beat up the girl (later he was starting to get rough with Carla before someone came in). He would have been lying to Jesse about the agent so he could get her on her own away from the band. He said in the cafe that she had refused his advances and had fought with him so he would have got rough with her like he did with the other girl. He may not have been armed with a knife but perhaps he picked it up from somewhere (I think they were near the kitchens).

[iCandy77]

Originally Posted by Collins1965

I think it would have been good to show the murder in flashback. I think he lied about the producer and when he tried it on with her she rejected him and he lost it and killed her. Where the knife came from is anyones guess.

I was disappointed about this too

i was hoping there'd be an explanation as to why he did it

[FilliA]

I pretty sure the murder didn't take place near the kitchens . Louis thought Jessie had sneaked out somewhere and so he checked her bedroom then heard her moaning in the linen cupboard. So Julian must have had the knife with him. We had seen him dithering about whether or not he should catch his train to Paris. The fact that he lied to Jessie to stop her singing for the Prince indicates that he had some plan for the night. Some of the scenes showed the prince taking a lot of interest in Jessie so was Julian afraid she would sleep with him? He didn't want to go to Paris, got her alone and killed her, then left to go to Paris. Would he have waved to Louis on his way out? Is he supposed to be a calm collected man who can murder someone and then go about his business(without a drop of blood on him). When was the coverup plan hatched? If he flew to Paris the plane must have been ordered almost immediately, which would have meant he was busy with arrangements straight away..it just doesn't convince me, though I am open to others interpretation if it helps me make sense of it .

[Firewalker]

It wasnt a whodunnit or even a why he did it....it was about class and race and money.I thought it was quality.

[parthena]

I had to force myself to continue watching after the first episode because a friend wanted me to. I couldn't believe in the singers or the band, they were neither talented nor of the period. I agree that an authentic band might not have gone down well with today's audience, but it was so bland.

Apart from inconsistencies and loose ends mentioned by others, I'm wondering whatever would have happened if the character of Eric hadn't been parachuted in, what a treasure he turned out to be! (BTW, I've just looked up the actor, Sam Hoare, and he was in an episode of Borgen! Now there's a drama for you ) And what about Pamela's unsuspected quick wits?! A couple of dei ex machina there.

Anyway, for sticking with it I was rewarded by some great acting - Chiwetel Ejiofor, Matthew Goode, Joanna Vanderham (no longer unconscious on her feet as in the Paradise), John Goodman, Tom Hughes, Anthony Head, Jacqueline Bisset, probably others... and it looked good.

[maggie_07]

Originally Posted by FilliA

I pretty sure the murder didn't take place near the kitchens . Louis thought Jessie had sneaked out somewhere and so he checked her bedroom then heard her moaning in the linen cupboard. So Julian must have had the knife with him. We had seen him dithering about whether or not he should catch his train to Paris. The fact that he lied to Jessie to stop her singing for the Prince indicates that he had some plan for the night. Some of the scenes showed the prince taking a lot of interest in Jessie so was Julian afraid she would sleep with him? He didn't want to go to Paris, got her alone and killed her, then left to go to Paris. Would he have waved to Louis on his way out? Is he supposed to be a calm collected man who can murder someone and then go about his business(without a drop of blood on him). When was the coverup plan hatched? If he flew to Paris the plane must have been ordered almost immediately, which would have meant he was busy with arrangements straight away..it just doesn't convince me, though I am open to others interpretation if it helps me make sense of it .

In the conversation in the cafe, Julian said to Masterson that he and Donaldson were powerful, they could do anything, that he had a private plane and could fly to Paris any time he wanted and he could get passports stamped by paying someone money, obviously hinting at what he had done for Julian. He didn't have to make arrangements, he would have gone to Masterson who would have made the arrangements and covered for him and arranged his alibi, as he seemed to be obsessed with Julian. He knew then that Julian had killed her and that's why he offered such a huge reward for Louis's capture, to protect Julian.

I'm not sure whether he was jealous of the Prince or not but, as she shared a room with Clara. I think he just planned to get her on her own with no interruptions so he could seduce her.

[parthena]

Just noticed that Jenna-Louise Coleman is on Channel4 at midnight tonight in "The Last Leg" (not a programme I normally watch).

[Firewalker]

Originally Posted by Collins1965

I think it would have been good to show the murder in flashback. I think he lied about the producer and when he tried it on with her she rejected him and he lost it and killed her. Where the knife came from is anyones guess.

I agree but I guess it was implicit...the siblings spoke about their horrific parents and him not being right.....we saw the hotel room stuff at the beginning and his grasp at the last.....we imagine with the pieces of the jigsaw he has given us and there were enough

[TiffanyThorne]

Originally Posted by Collins1965

I loved the first 3 episodes but was a bit disappointed in the last 2 - Julian being the murderer was a bit obvious. I thought it would have been more interesting if Arthur had done it to bring shame on the Hotel so that it would be sold and he could pick it up for next to nothing.

I was also let down by Lady Cremone's lack of empathy for Louis and the way she carried on like a spoilt child at Stanley "ruining her day" by trying to help him. I had really liked her up to that.

The way Masterson carried on about Julian I thought he was in love with him!

And finally, why did Louis have to stay away once his name was cleared??? Made no sense to me.

Julian being the murderer was a bit obvious to me too. But the show was more about Lewis obviously not being the murderer a lot of people immediately assumed he was.

I was very let down by Lady Cremone too and I was glad to see her begin to think for herself and start questioning Masterson.

Masterson was in love with Julian. He said Julian was like a son to him but I think Julian was more than that. It didn't look like Julian returned Masterson's feelings- he tried to get away from him and hide in Donaldson's house. Maybe that's why Julian had to trick Jessie into meeting him away from the band when he was supposed to be going to Paris- perhaps too that's why Masterson was so worried about Julian contacting him when he got to Paris.

[roddydogs]

Wouldn't the 2 young girls have mentioned that he was carrying a loaded gun around.
Wouldn't everyone else wonder "Whats that box he insists on carrying around," wouldn't someone have recognised a gun box?

[delta]

Brilliant! I loved it. Superb acting all round. Wide open for a sequel.

[jandy19]

Originally Posted by TiffanyThorne

So many images from last night's episode were stunning: Lewis in his tux at the bowls club with the staring members all in white, Lewis playing piano for the ballet students, Clara in her amazing coat (where did they get such a luxurious coat for her to wear at such short notice) the drunk toff teasing Lewis the servant about how Carla addressed him, Pamela stepping up to the plate, cooly speaking to the train guard to sidestep the passport examination, Sarah surrounded by her photos , being questioned by the police, and her nerve failing, Julian, Donaldson, and Masterson in the cafe, the waitress screaming, Masterson breaking down in tears over Julian. Fantastic television.

I wonder what the upcoming "interview" with Lewis will be like.

I think the coat thing was quite important. I noticed that when Julian asked Arthur to get in the car he said "it's a warm night you won't need your coat" and then poor Louis had to go off without a coat at all. I haven't worked out what that meant yet but there was something going on with coats!

[jandy19]

[quote=Collins1965;64491802

And finally, why did Louis have to stay away once his name was cleared??? Made no sense to me.[/QUOTE]

I think Louis going to America was about the jazz - there would be a good scene there with less of the immigration hassle he was getting all the time in London. It was a rejection of UK that made sense to me. Plus he knew Sarah was traitor to him and he wasn't interested in her any more.