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The Big Holby City Thread (Part 4)


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Old 19-02-2014, 00:56
george.millman
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Fair enough!

I just thought I'd add that disclaimer because, on here, I've seen too many occasions where people take it personally when someone attempts to debate their points!
In my opinion, people like that shouldn't take part in debates about television shows.
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Old 19-02-2014, 00:59
Chzza
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I just do not get this nurses telling consultants what to do thing. I know Jac put it bluntly but as a consultant she has done years and years more training than a nurse and knows more medically than Johnny does. The lack of respect that Johnny shows to her is extremely unprofessional, and on what planet is he then promoted to a position with power over his superior???!!?
you'd be surprised just how often nurses have to tell Dr's when they've made a mistake, even consultants.
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Old 19-02-2014, 09:17
BLADESMAN1889
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Jacs vindictive behavior, as some of you have put it, was more like the Jac of old.

It was this side of her that I was first drawn to. I quite like the 'gentle bully' side of her. This was the 'REAL' Jac Naylor. The one who didn't care about what people thought about her. The one who didn't have the time of day for nurses/F1/2's.

The old Jac would NEVER have even had the time for conversation with a nurse let alone sleep and then have a bin lid with.

Bring back this old original version with the ruthless streak that didn't give a rats ass who she upset or bullied.

I hate Johnny more & more each week. He was an absolute scumbag in this episode - going out of his way to deliberately SET Jac up.

Get lost Johnny and go home. The sooner they get their independence the better.
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Old 19-02-2014, 09:24
k9fan
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Jacs vindictive behavior, as some of you have put it, was more like the Jac of old.

It was this side of her that I was first drawn to. I quite like the 'gentle bully' side of her. This was the 'REAL' Jac Naylor. The one who didn't care about what people thought about her. The one who didn't have the time of day for nurses/F1/2's.

The old Jac would NEVER have even had the time for conversation with a nurse let alone sleep and then have a bin lid with.

Bring back this old original version with the ruthless streak that didn't give a rats ass who she upset or bullied.

I hate Johnny more & more each week. He was an absolute scumbag in this episode - going out of his way to deliberately SET Jac up.

Get lost Johnny and go home. The sooner they get their independence the better.

Yes, I'd agree with that.
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Old 19-02-2014, 09:35
gwenda
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Harry is a nob. But he is very dishy.
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Old 19-02-2014, 10:04
sarahj1986
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I disliked both Jac and Johnny last night. Jac was out of order for using her increased salary over him and saying about him contributing financially to the child, I hardly think Johnny is the type not to. Johnny however crossed the line trying to set Jac up with that nurse (whose name I cannot remember, or even care), going over Jacs head with that patient was uncalled for. I find it hard to believe Johnny would just be given a promotion and pay rise like that. Surely we should have seen that woman nurse at least discuss it with Guy first? She even said budgets were tight, Im assuming Johnnys pay rise is enough to pay for another nurse if not more! I know its a "soap" and doesn't necessarily reflect real life but when it comes to things about budgets and staff costs Holby does tend to be quite on the mark about it. I think last night for me the best storyline was Zosia and Guy, I am beginning to like them now. Harry is a grade A prat and Raf clearly has a personal issue with him.
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Old 19-02-2014, 10:11
wiggles247
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I'm in complete agreement with most people on here who seem to think the Jac/Jonny rancour is getting a wee bit old now and even worse is actually making me start to dislike the whole storyline (which is something I never even dreamed I'd be saying when we found out Jac was pregnant all those months ago!!) From my point of view they were both as bad as each other last night, and both need to get a grip of themselves and stop trying to get one over on each other.

Harry also behaved abysmally - showing a total lack of regard for his patient's safety, health and feelings. He needs to stop trying to make himself look good and concentrate on being a good doctor (which will in turn make him look good), and also learn that when you're in a hole you should stop digging!!
Could understand why Raf was so angry with him but his reverse snobbery is grating more and more each week with me, and making me less responsive to him when he actually has a point. I hope they calm him down a bit over the next few weeks.

Did like the Zosia/Guy reconciliation storyline and also think that Zosia will probably end up going down the surgery route. Also, really enjoyed the lack of Digby/Dom sniping = two weeks in a row, long may it continue!
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Old 19-02-2014, 10:15
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I can never understand why Ric is so antagonistic towards Raff - treating him and Harry as if they were equally delinquent. Is it a case of the old stag resenting a possible supplanter?
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Old 19-02-2014, 12:39
Collins1965
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Jacs vindictive behavior, as some of you have put it, was more like the Jac of old.

It was this side of her that I was first drawn to. I quite like the 'gentle bully' side of her. This was the 'REAL' Jac Naylor. The one who didn't care about what people thought about her. The one who didn't have the time of day for nurses/F1/2's.

The old Jac would NEVER have even had the time for conversation with a nurse let alone sleep and then have a bin lid with.

Bring back this old original version with the ruthless streak that didn't give a rats ass who she upset or bullied.

I hate Johnny more & more each week. He was an absolute scumbag in this episode - going out of his way to deliberately SET Jac up.

Get lost Johnny and go home. The sooner they get their independence the better.
Hear, hear!

I cannot abide Jonny any longer. I wish Jac would just up sticks and take Emma and leave him stewing. He is a petty, vindictive, manipulative sleazebag who is obviously suffering from small man syndrome. Put the boot in, Jac!!! I'm with you all the way.
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Old 19-02-2014, 12:53
Collins1965
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Further observations:

Harry is a complete low life.

Raf is completely unlikeable and AAU is now on it's last legs, character wise.

Mo is two faced, but I already knew that.

Loved Arthur's aside to Zoshia "you're worse at this (relating to patients) than I am!"

Colette surely had no right to speak to a Consultant as she did and Jonny did not deserve a promotion in the (cunning) way that he got it. Missed Elliot badly in all this.

Not really lovin' Holby at the moment!
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Old 19-02-2014, 13:44
kitkat1971
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Jac and Jonny were as bad as each other last night but I have to dislike the way he was deliberately goading her and trying to set her up. It is actually the kind of back stabbing thing Jac used to do to gain promotion but it was always signaled as wrong and never actually worked for her. The argument (express best by Dan and Ric I think) that although surgically brilliant, they didn't want somebody capable of treating colleagues lke that with a senior position In their department. I know there is an argument Jac has just had a taste of her own medicine but it still doesn't sit right. Maybe i'm old fashioned but I really think that promotions shoud be gained due to an indivuals merits - not because they do someone else down. Also, don't suppose it occurred to him that she might end up in front of a tribunal or even losing her job which would damage Emma financially. I know he wants to provide, but does he want to be the sole provider? Quick look on Nursing staffing Grades indicate his new job has a maximum salary of 45k so it is still quite a lot less than the 110k we were told Jac earns a couple of weeks ago.

I've been thinking about the Nanny as well. Will they be living in? You'd think with the hours Jac works they might have to or at the very least spend an awful lot of time at her flat when Jac is there as well - shen she is on call for instance or if she has a night shift. So, giving this person will be in her home and spending more time with her than Jonny, I think she should have had the last say - for that reason not money. She should have discussed it reasonably of course but if there was a disagreement she should have won. She has to have someone she isn't comfortable with in her home just because Jonny wants to make a point? Maybe she wanted the guy who likes extreme sport so they had something in common and could talk which is fair enough - he's hardly likely to take Emma bungee jumping and doesn't mean he can't do the job.

One point about original Jac - there was a period of nearly 9 months in season 8 before she became the resident baddie when although she was flawed and clearly wanted a promotion she was quite sociable, friendly and respectful towards colleagues - including Nurses. In fact, she was very kind and gave credit where it was due to Mickie in particular - also Mark and Kyla. During that time it was only Diane and Nick that she used to snipe at.
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Old 19-02-2014, 14:01
skteosk
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I was sympathetic towards Jac right up until she made that Connie-esque "I have more say because I have a higher salary" remark:I accept the male role model jibe was half-serious if that but that comment seemed to me to be 100% serious.So yes, I was cheering when she accidentally showed Colette her true colours by directing a load of bile at Jonny as soon as she thought she could get away with it. (Even her look at Colette afterwards seemed to be more a case of "Yeah, like I actually care what you think of me" than contrition.)Does that justify Jonny effectively blackmailing her into doing things his way?Not really but I cheered him on anyway.I agree though, it's all getting very tired.

Harry manipulated his patient, refused to take responsibility for his own actions(even at the end he didn't admit to faking the weigh-in)and tried to solve the problem by throwing money at it.Despite this, I still liked him more than Raf, who just came across as a bully, making personal comments every time he spoke to Harry even though it was obviously upsetting him.

Shame the show seems to be trying to force Zosia into surgery because that's what most of the stories are about.She was wrong to keep quiet about the symptoms but her approach of actually talking to the patient rather than going through a checklist had merit, she just needed to cover all the bases in the process and know what to look for(which is surely part of her training as much as surgery?). Some rapproachment between her and Guy was due, shame no-one's realised that about Jac and Jonny.Nice if brief use of Arthur.
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Old 19-02-2014, 14:04
BLADESMAN1889
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Further observations:

Harry is a complete low life.

Raf is completely unlikeable and AAU is now on it's last legs, character wise.

Mo is two faced, but I already knew that.

Loved Arthur's aside to Zoshia "you're worse at this (relating to patients) than I am!"

Colette surely had no right to speak to a Consultant as she did and Jonny did not deserve a promotion in the (cunning) way that he got it. Missed Elliot badly in all this.

Not really lovin' Holby at the moment!
Colette was bang out of order to speak to her in that manner in the middle of the ward - that just proved how UNPROFESSIONAL she is !

Again - the old Jac would not have let her get away with that whether she was in the wrong or not.

And I completely agree - if I was Jac I would now go for sole custody and hit ***** wear it really hurts. If ***** wants to see his daughter he will have to go through the courts as he is clearly an UNFIT father & this will hurt him in the pocket as well as he can't afford this. Its time ***** was put in his place.

Agreed about Mo as well, I don't think there's ever been a more 2 faced character. I remember when ***** & Mo both arrived together I wrote on here that my first impression of them both was a pair of clowns.

Note;

I have decided that from here in, the worthless petty, kilt wearer of a lowlife shall no longer be named - until we find out that he's leaving - hence *****
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Old 19-02-2014, 14:27
kitkat1971
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Wow Bladesman - I do admire someone who says how they feel about a character!

Mo was pretty 2 faced getting Colette back down but did she actually hide the bag? I guess it was just her properly taking Jonny's side because she knew he was upset about the Nanny think.

Jac's tongue was in her cheek over the male role model thing but like a lot of barbs there was some truth in it and of course Jonny will already be feeling upset that he is to be at best a part time father and probably nervous that in time Jac could meet someone else and he'll be totally replaced and of course, she'll already be feeling like that about maternal Bonnie - even if neither of them voice those fears. Unfortunately, their relationship has deteriated to such an extent that any light hearted, teasing comment is likely to be taken the wrong way - and I actually think that Jac knew it would hurt him.

As i've said over on the Jac thread, watching her and Jonny is now akin to watching her and Joseph in season 10 (which I didn't enjoy either as it was so nasty and toxic) but without the background motivation (at least we knew why Joseph turned so against her and she felt she'd lost everything after her affair with Charles and his dying so was resentful) and even though it was nasty there always did seem to be an undercurrent of humour and that there was still love there deep down. I don't feel that here really, they just seem to hate each other and act like they always did. It is the worm that turned as someone else said and Jonny is going Ott and now Jac isn't worried about Emma surviving she seems to have redirected that fighting spirit into hurting Jonny and Bonnie.
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Old 19-02-2014, 14:35
BLADESMAN1889
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Wow Bladesman - I do admire someone who says how they feel about a character!
I'm this way in life also. I just say it as it is. I hate political correctness. Unfortunately this sometimes upsets or offends folk, but hey they'll get over it
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Old 19-02-2014, 14:50
BLADESMAN1889
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And another thing - I'm going to fast forward through any scenes that feature just ***** & Bonnie together on their own or him grandstanding. His voice now so irritates me so much.

As if Jac would NOT have just binned his new Nanny suggestion. It's kind of laughable how they're trying to make him more assertive - just going to show that he never had any b@lls to begin with.

I'm seriously thinking of starting a ***** hate thread - is that allowed on here ?
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Old 19-02-2014, 15:04
clover
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Like most people on here, I'm getting heartily fed up with the Jac/Jonny sniping. It's gone beyond amusing and I've started to really dislike Jonny now. I don't think Jac set out to try and humiliate him - she hired the nanny of her choice and wouldn't have said much about it, but when she's provoked she attacks back, hence the "strong male role model" jibe. Jonny's plan to make her look bad in front of a colleague so he could get promotion to a weird job that hadn't existed until then - well, that was just nasty. As were the threats to use his new position to make Jac's life as hard as possible. He's a childish, petty little man.

On the other hand, I'm really warming to Dr Posh, and I think it's because of all the jibes Raf keeps making about his class. Raf clearly has a chip on his shoulder about it, but I like the way it's antagonising Posh and making him try a bit harder. He was awful to poor Annie, but I think that was consistent with his previous view of himself as a man who only had to smile or wave his credit card and everything would be well. He's learning some hard life lessons, and I also like how he has Mary-Claire and Adele to confide in and give him some plain talk.

Oh heck. I seem to be in danger of writing a second review if I keep going. The first one is here
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Old 19-02-2014, 15:35
kitkat1971
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The other thing about threatening to make jac's life difficult at work - again has he not considered the detrimental effect sending a Jac that is tired, upset, frazzled, unable to vent at work so already at the end of a nervous tether home to look after his baby who will of course cry and lead to sleepless nights. I'm not saying she'd hurt Emma but looking after a baby isn't easy at the best of time (supportive full time partner, easier job (if any) than a Surgeon) and why if he really loves Emma would he risk having her mother even more stressed out when trying to lkook after her. But then he didn't think about what the stress of seeing bhim carry on with Bonnie in her last trimester would do either did he.

I refuse to hate Jonny because I liked him so much for the first 18 months and as I just think the writers have given him a complete personality transplant to suit this storyline, i'm hoping they will in time change him back again. It is hard though and I am really fed up of the sniping now.

I'm wondering if they will at some stage tell us that Jac registered Emma's birth without naming Jonny as father which would strip him of all immediate rights. He'd get them by demanding a DNA test, going through the Courts but it would take time (during which Jac could keep Emma totally away from him) and cost a lot of money. True Jonny hasn't mentioned it but it is just possible that he doesn't know he needed to be there for him to be named and has just assumed that she's 'played fair'. I actually think she would name him as she seemed to include him from the beginning and wants Emma to have a Dad (unlike herself) but if they are writing her in one of her nastiest moods it is possible and given the way he has been grandstanding recently I wouldn't entirely blame her. Even though I am a huge supporter of father's rights.
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Old 19-02-2014, 15:43
SellSimilar
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Brilliant review as ever, Clover.

I hate what the writers have done to Jac and Johnny. He seems to have forgotten everything he once knew about her, for a start. I thought that the point of Johnny was that he would always be there for her, always be sweet and understanding, while teasing her about her temper. The huge storyline about her learning to trust him has been superseded by this idea that he has to be nasty in order to become her equal - totally forgetting all that has gone before.

I miss Michael Spence, especially when he's playing a supporting role - he's a lot more fun than all of the new arrivals. And I am really surprised to miss Chrissie, who was annoying but whose departure gave us RoboColette.

Harry is a little better, but he's been here for ages and this is the first bit of character development he's had. He, Digby, Dom and Zosia are such one-note characters, continually being given the same storylines yet learning nothing from them.

And I hated the Self versus Self scenes. Both characters are so limited, and their plotline is straight of out 80s Home and Away, with worse dialogue. It clearly wasn't enough that Guy is all ham every week; we had to have extra cheese as well.
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Old 19-02-2014, 16:07
MsWilder11
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The other thing about threatening to make jac's life difficult at work - again has he not considered the detrimental effect sending a Jac that is tired, upset, frazzled, unable to vent at work so already at the end of a nervous tether home to look after his baby who will of course cry and lead to sleepless nights. I'm not saying she'd hurt Emma but looking after a baby isn't easy at the best of time (supportive full time partner, easier job (if any) than a Surgeon) and why if he really loves Emma would he risk having her mother even more stressed out when trying to lkook after her. But then he didn't think about what the stress of seeing bhim carry on with Bonnie in her last trimester would do either did he.

I refuse to hate Jonny because I liked him so much for the first 18 months and as I just think the writers have given him a complete personality transplant to suit this storyline, i'm hoping they will in time change him back again. It is hard though and I am really fed up of the sniping now.
I don't think he's giving the situation any thought really. It's just a case of "I'll show her".

I can't grab a pitchfork and demand his head on a platter either. I'm not enjoying him, but then I'm not really enjoying Jac either (which is something I never thought I'd ever say!) The dynamic is very warped.

I'm wondering if they will at some stage tell us that Jac registered Emma's birth without naming Jonny as father which would strip him of all immediate rights. He'd get them by demanding a DNA test, going through the Courts but it would take time (during which Jac could keep Emma totally away from him) and cost a lot of money. True Jonny hasn't mentioned it but it is just possible that he doesn't know he needed to be there for him to be named and has just assumed that she's 'played fair'. I actually think she would name him as she seemed to include him from the beginning and wants Emma to have a Dad (unlike herself) but if they are writing her in one of her nastiest moods it is possible and given the way he has been grandstanding recently I wouldn't entirely blame her. Even though I am a huge supporter of father's rights.
One thing I hate to see is a child being use as a pawn in their parents' personal battles. If Jac deliberately left Jonny's name off as some sort of 'payback' then I couldn't cheer her on at all. Yes he's had his horrible moments, but I don't think he'd deserve that.

All this animosity has to be leading somewhere though, surely? It cant just be nastiness for nastiness' sake. I wonder if there's going to be some sort of Emma-related drama that forces them to pull together which makes them reflect on just how nasty relations between them have got.
One thing I really don't want to happen is a custody battle.
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Old 19-02-2014, 16:16
kitkat1971
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Unfortunately I can see us being headed for a custody battle - unless it all just fizzles out as it did with Sam and Connie over Grace. Didn't they have a plot where the Nanny was neglectful and Grace had an accident but then things were never mentioned again until Sam left for America.

I can sadly see Jac doing it as payback and like you couldn't cheer her own. However, if she were to leave him off the certificate I think it would be more about keeping control and safeguarding her interests - it is much harder for him to demand rights (or even go for custody) if he isn't on the birth certificate and the way he's been recently, I do think she might deep down be worried about that. Especially as he already has a parter who is maternal and could provide the nuclear family.

I hope she hasn't left him off, I wouldn't approve but I could kind of understand.

I'm not sure it is leading anywhere - it is just part of the 'spice' Kent is so obsessed with.
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Old 19-02-2014, 16:22
Nosaer
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Jac is essentially a single parent, Johnny chose it that way and swiftly moved on to his next squeeze. Emma is living with Jac. It's all very well Johnny's blah blah about co-parenting but the actual everyday grind is down to Jac. I can understand Jac thinking and acting like she is in this on her own now. She is perfectly capable. Johnny is offering virtually no support, in fact he seems to be going out of his way to undermine her. The parent with whom the child is residing would definitely have the last say on everyday arrangements like the nanny. If Johnny wants to be making those sorts of decisions he should have the child live with him.
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Old 19-02-2014, 16:23
Collins1965
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It's the War of the Roses, for sure. It won't make pleasant viewing.

I don't care what she says or does, I'm team Jac all the way.
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Old 19-02-2014, 16:41
MsWilder11
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Unfortunately I can see us being headed for a custody battle - unless it all just fizzles out as it did with Sam and Connie over Grace. Didn't they have a plot where the Nanny was neglectful and Grace had an accident but then things were never mentioned again until Sam left for America.

I can sadly see Jac doing it as payback and like you couldn't cheer her own. However, if she were to leave him off the certificate I think it would be more about keeping control and safeguarding her interests - it is much harder for him to demand rights (or even go for custody) if he isn't on the birth certificate and the way he's been recently, I do think she might deep down be worried about that. Especially as he already has a parter who is maternal and could provide the nuclear family.

I hope she hasn't left him off, I wouldn't approve but I could kind of understand.
Re Connie/Sam/Grace, I have no idea you have a better memory for these things than me, kitkat!

I suppose it'd be in character for her to do it, I just really hope she hasn't. You never know where you are with the pair of them though. One week it's ok the next it's WW3. With there being nearly zero communication between re about Emma, it's not hard to imagine Jonny assuming Jac's sorted all that stuff out fairly; kind of like the same way he assumed about the christening gown.
I think Bonnie's getting a little unnerved at how invested Jonny is in this whole power struggle. I wouldn't be surprised if she walked away and left him to it.

Like you've brought up, Jac and Joseph were dragged into some very dark, poisonous stuff but they seemed to come out the other side. This is why I can't see Jonny as irredeemable/beyond repair, or Jac and Jonny not being able to get back onto decent terms.
It's very frustrating to watch though and a custody battle would just mean everything getting so much uglier.

I'm not sure it is leading anywhere - it is just part of the 'spice' Kent is so obsessed with.
Well if that's the case then it'll make watching it play out even more tedious *sleep smiley*
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Old 19-02-2014, 17:42
kitkat1971
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Jac is essentially a single parent, Johnny chose it that way and swiftly moved on to his next squeeze. Emma is living with Jac. It's all very well Johnny's blah blah about co-parenting but the actual everyday grind is down to Jac. I can understand Jac thinking and acting like she is in this on her own now. She is perfectly capable. Johnny is offering virtually no support, in fact he seems to be going out of his way to undermine her. The parent with whom the child is residing would definitely have the last say on everyday arrangements like the nanny. If Johnny wants to be making those sorts of decisions he should have the child live with him.
I do have to agree with this. As I said yesterday, Jac is the one that is going to have the Nanny in her home, spending time with them so really should have the final say and not because of money.

Good analogy Collins - it is the War of the Roses now unfortunately.

Yes, Bonnie does seem to be waking up to the fact that everything Jonny is doing stems from his feelings for Jac - good or bad. Now really, would you want someone so invested with their ex - after all there is a very thin line between love and hate. Also, maybe it could sow a seed od doubt about his basic character - if he can turn one ex partner like this, what is to stop him doing the same to me if we split and how horrible that would be - especially if they get to the stage of having their own kids.
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