[Mr Blonde]

I laughed a few weeks ago when Dan was called the greatest player of all time. I am laughing even harder now that he has lost to a jury vote of 6-1. The greatest player of all time should have the jury eating out of his hand, just like Dr Will did in Season 2 and All Stars*.

*Dr Will worked his magic on the jury to secure Mike Boogie's victory. He even made Howie vote for him.

Dan made some infamous moves, like hosting his own funeral, swearing on the Bible and backstabbing all of his potential jury votes, but he is no match for Dr Will. Dan has great strategy, but no social game. Dr Will had both.

[TrustFundBaby]

The thing i like about Dr Will is that he has never won a competition......oh and you forgot to mention he has charisma something Dan has yet to discover.

[Linus2]

Originally Posted by TrustFundBaby

The thing i like about Dr Will is that he has never won a competition......oh and you forgot to mention he has charisma something Dan has yet to discover.

yes, its unbelievable how much charisma Will has. My vote goes to Will for best player ever. And isnt it hilarious that he really never won ANY comp at all?

[mindset]

Originally Posted by Mr Blonde

The greatest player of all time should have the jury eating out of his hand, just like Dr Will did in Season 2 and All Stars*.

*Dr Will worked his magic on the jury to secure Mike Boogie's victory. He even made Howie vote for him.

Will and Boogie successfully trashed Erika long before Will arrived at the Jury house. Most of the HG's were calling her Scrubika from week 4 onwards (IIRC). Not to mention the season 6ers hated floaters anyway.

[Redmond]

Dan is a Winner and Runner-up. Numbers wise, Dan is the better player.

[InMyArms]

Lawon.

He's a super genius, volunteering to be nominated AND evicted because he's going to return with special powers! Excellent gameplay.

Also Marcellas, not using the veto was one of the most impressive moves in the history of the show. Incredible.. game winning stuff.

[Linus2]

@ReallyWILLKIRBY
I´m considering asking @Kassting for one of the coaching spots on @BigBrotherCA. BTW, What will the pool be like in Mississauga in March?

Well that yould be awesome but i am not sure if he is serious about that ... i highly doubt it lol

[fab cesc]

Originally Posted by Mr Blonde

I laughed a few weeks ago when Dan was called the greatest player of all time. I am laughing even harder now that he has lost to a jury vote of 6-1. The greatest player of all time should have the jury eating out of his hand, just like Dr Will did in Season 2 and All Stars*.

*Dr Will worked his magic on the jury to secure Mike Boogie's victory. He even made Howie vote for him.

Dan made some infamous moves, like hosting his own funeral, swearing on the Bible and backstabbing all of his potential jury votes, but he is no match for Dr Will. Dan has great strategy, but no social game. Dr Will had both.

Dan won BB10 7-0 compared to Will's 6-3 in BB2, I'd call that having the jury eating out of his hands.

Will didn't even make the final of All Stars because he couldn't win a comp when it really mattered (yet somehow this is apparently a good thing?). Convincing the jury what to do when you are one of them is totally different to convincing a jury to vote for you. I'd also add Will was dealing with returning players who understood the game. Dan wasn't. Of the returning players Janelle was his biggest fan, Britney wanted him to make the finals and would have voted for him over anyone but Ian and I believe Boogie respected him game enough to do the same.

[Linus2]

Originally Posted by fab cesc

Dan won BB10 7-0 compared to Will's 6-3 in BB2, I'd call that having the jury eating out of his hands.

Numbers dont matter coz its always who you are up against in the F2. Nicole BB2 was a really great player so why would anyone win 7-0 against her? And Dan was up against Memphis ... come on... And on Dans second time he had the advantage of being a coach and his player had a showmance with Brits player so he never had to make alliances of his own.

[Shine_On]

I watched this season of BB US and while I don't have any other seasons really to go on, I don't really think Dan was that good a player. His competition was poor (apart from the coaches they were all really amateur), he'd played before, he had 4 weeks of immunity, he had a player heavily indebted to him that protected him and he also had a well formed alliance (that he didn't create) protecting him as soon as he entered the game while still being able to play both sides with Boogie (a friend from outside the game). Also his Jury answers / speech was terrible, he sounded like a used car salesman.

I kept reading about how great a game he played, but I just don't see it. If he hadn't been gifted with a someone like Danielle I don't think he would have gone far at all.

Really gotta watch the earlier seasons that all stars season sounds really interesting.

[Linus2]

Originally Posted by Shine_On

Really gotta watch the earlier seasons that all stars season sounds really interesting.

you have to watch season 7 All-stars it was really good. And the second half of Season 2 because of the great Dr. Will

[Redmond]

His competition was poor (apart from the coaches they were all really amateur),

They are always stupid housemates every year but I actually think this season's cast was a slight step up from previous years. Frank, Shane and Ian were all very good at comps (Frank and Shane the physical stuff), and Ian the mental stuff.

he'd played before,

So had the other coaches. In fact, Boogie and Janelle had played three times, and they didn't even make Jury. And Britney was voted out second on to Jury.

he had 4 weeks of immunity,

Even if you are still using this excuse, it was actually 3 weeks (each coach had three players). But Dan had lost two players by the second week, and his last player Danielle was on the block in Week 2 - so technically Dan could have been voted out in Week 2.

he had a player heavily indebted to him that protected him

Erm, yes, because he put tremendous amounts of effort in building up that relationship and making sure Danielle protected him at all costs. That is part of playing the game.

Also, Joe was heavily indebted to Janelle. Frank was heavily indebted to Boogie. They both failed to make jury.

and he also had a well formed alliance (that he didn't create) protecting him as soon as he entered the game

What alliance? You mean the players he picked as a coach? Well for one, he lost two of them by Week 2, and secondly, so did all the other coaches - yet two of Janelle's team voted her out, two of Britney's team tried to mutiny, and one of Boogie's team flipped and caused him to get evicted.

All that proves is that Dan was better at making people trust him and be loyal to him.

while still being able to play both sides with Boogie (a friend from outside the game).

Boogie and Dan were both trying to get rid of each other at separate points. Dan and his alliance voted Boogie out.

Also his Jury answers / speech was terrible, he sounded like a used car salesman.

He did misread the jury I'll give you that. Ian's speech was a lot better.

If he hadn't been gifted with a someone like Danielle I don't think he would have gone far at all.

He wasn't "gifted" with Danielle, he chose her. And he also worked on her to make sure she was loyal. The other coaches had players that were loyal to them, yet they all got evicted.

Frank had like 3 occasions to get rid of Dan, but he didn't because Dan got himself out of it.

[molly noggin]

How are we defining 'greatest'? As the object of the game is to win money, I would define the greatest player as the one who's won the most money. I'm not sure but I think that would be a Boogie/Dan tie, wouldn't it? If it's defined as the HG who's won the most competitions and then got first place, then it'll be neither of those two (Again, not sure - Rachel/Ian?). If it's the one who got first place without winning many comps, or playing 'dirty' (stabbing people in the back after swearing on Bible/loved ones, etc), or riding on someone else's coat tails (a la Jordan) thereby retaining the good will of enough jury members, I guess that would be Will - but that he didn't make F2 in all stars and went home empty handed scuppers it AFAIC.

If it's just a matter of whose game was the most impressive and fascinating to watch, then it's highly subjective and for me the player was Danielle Reyes of BB3.

[Chubbler]

Dr Will is so much better than Dan. I'd also say Danielle Reyes is better than Dan.

[Linus2]

Originally Posted by molly noggin

How are we defining 'greatest'? As the object of the game is to win money, I would define the greatest player as the one who's won the most money.

the best player is imo the one who had the most impressive gameplay overall. You can´t define it on the money coz there are good players who never won but are much better players than some of the winners.

Originally Posted by Redmond

Frank had like 3 occasions to get rid of Dan, but he didn't because Dan got himself out of it.

Boogie talked Frank out of it because he he thought its to soon for a big move. Dan only safed himself the last time.

[Redmond]

Originally Posted by Linus2

Boogie talked Frank out of it because he he thought its to soon for a big move. Dan only safed himself the last time.

Fair point. Although Dan kept on good terms with Boogie, which is why Boogie protected Dan.

My many other points still stand.

[mindset]

Originally Posted by fab cesc

Convincing the jury what to do when you are one of them is totally different to convincing a jury to vote for you. I'd also add Will was dealing with returning players who understood the game. Dan wasn't.

Allowing Janelle and Boogie to be evicted before the Jury stage was a fatal strategic error. Dan could have prevented both of these evictions but instead, he pushed for them.

Originally Posted by Redmond

What alliance?

This would be the unnamed QP alliance before Ian joined. It was one of Dan's strategies to get both his girls to slipstream behind Hantz and Shane. It was under Dan's direction that Danielle pursued a showmance with Shane. She told him early on that she was "happy to take one for the team", but Kara wouldn't/couldn't play and then Hantz imploded. Teams Dan and Britney became an alliance when (or perhaps because) Shane won HoH in week 3. Though Dan and Danielle were clearly doing the playing and Britney and Shane were clearly being played.

Originally Posted by Linus2

Boogie talked Frank out of it because he he thought its to soon for a big move. Dan only safed himself the last time.

A good player would never allow themselves to be talked into acting against their own best interests. Even worse, to sacrifice their own best interests for the benefit of another player.

Originally Posted by Redmond

Dan kept on good terms with Boogie, which is why Boogie protected Dan.

For players of the calibre of Dan and Boogie, the notion of "good terms" in this context is irrelevant. Boogie protected Dan in week 2 because it was in his own strategic interests. The idea that he did so out of "friendship" or because Dan was being nice to him is naive.

[Linus2]

Originally Posted by mindset

A good player would never allow themselves to be talked into acting against their own best interests. Even worse, to sacrifice their own best interests for the benefit of another player.

i disagree, the person who talked Frank out of it was a chill town member who was also his coach and not another newbie player.
But its not about Frank or Boogie the question was if DAN is the greatest player of all time.

[dylanpartyon]

The top two are definatley Will and Dan, for me anyways. And then Jun in third for me!!

[Redmond]

Originally Posted by mindset

This would be the unnamed QP alliance before Ian joined. It was one of Dan's strategies to get both his girls to slipstream behind Hantz and Shane. It was under Dan's direction that Danielle pursued a showmance with Shane. She told him early on that she was "happy to take one for the team", but Kara wouldn't/couldn't play and then Hantz imploded. Teams Dan and Britney became an alliance when (or perhaps because) Shane won HoH in week 3. Though Dan and Danielle were clearly doing the playing and Britney and Shane were clearly being played.

But that alliance wasn't set up as soon as Dan entered the game. That alliance was built up over a couple of weeks, with the help of Dan.

Dan didn't walk in with an alliance immediately protecting him, which is what the poster I replied to suggested.

For players of the calibre of Dan and Boogie, the notion of "good terms" in this context is irrelevant. Boogie protected Dan in week 2 because it was in his own strategic interests. The idea that he did so out of "friendship" or because Dan was being nice to him is naive.

It wasn't the sole reason. But if Boogie knew Dan was openly plotting against him and talking crap about him then it may have swayed Boogie's decision.

[Vesna]

Rachel Reilly.

[mindset]

Originally Posted by Linus2

i disagree, the person who talked Frank out of it was a chill town member who was also his coach and not another newbie player.

You disagree that my post applies to your first sentence, but I'm content that both Boogie and Frank agreed with me, albeit in hindsight.

But its not about Frank or Boogie the question was if DAN is the greatest player of all time.

Strategic principle can be applied to any player as an objective measurement of their effectiveness. FWIW, I use this one all the time.

[mindset]

Originally Posted by Redmond

It wasn't the sole reason. But if Boogie knew Dan was openly plotting against him and talking crap about him then it may have swayed Boogie's decision.

Strategic self interest is the bottom line IMO.

1 Good players don't plot openly. Dan is better than good.

2 Good players expect to have everyone talking crap about them, only poor players get unnerved by this "discovery". But it's par for the course.

[Vesna]

Originally Posted by mindset

Strategic self interest is the bottom line IMO.

1 Good players don't plot openly. Dan is better than good.

2 Good players expect to have everyone talking crap about them, only poor players get unnerved by this "discovery". But it's par for the course.

Dan needlessly alienated the entire Jury. That's very poor strategy to winning. It's great if your goal is to come in 2nd place.

[Linus2]

Originally Posted by mindset

You disagree that my post applies to your first sentence, but I'm content that both Boogie and Frank agreed with me, albeit in hindsight.

so Frank agreed with you that he is not a good player? Or what are you telling me here?