which is why the public vote hard to keep their duffer favourite out of the dance off, they may well not have voted if the dance off did not exist
Pros and Cons of the dance off
3 of 8
Originally Posted by CaroUK:
“Granted, but should the duffers get the support of the viewers, they have as much right to stay and entertain their fans as the better but more unpopular dancers do.
In the case of Kenny, Widdy and Nancy, they were bottom of the leader board week after week, but still managed to stay out of the bottom 2 until the late stages due to the public vote. And I know that in most series, I would rather watch the antics of one of the duffers than some of the mediocre "better dancers" who may have been marginally better, but deathly boring to watch and listen to in the VT.
At the end of the day, it's a prime time entertainment show first and a dance competition second. In all series we have had a good dancer win, beating any of the duffers who had all gone before actually getting a sniff of the finl.... Heck - apart from series 1, the runner up has been excellent as well.
As long as the BEST dancers get to the final, I really can't get too antsy about the order in which the cannon fodder go. There are only going to be 2-3 finalists, and I don't care if a duffer gets even to the semi as long as they don't actually keep the best out of the final itself”
“Granted, but should the duffers get the support of the viewers, they have as much right to stay and entertain their fans as the better but more unpopular dancers do.
In the case of Kenny, Widdy and Nancy, they were bottom of the leader board week after week, but still managed to stay out of the bottom 2 until the late stages due to the public vote. And I know that in most series, I would rather watch the antics of one of the duffers than some of the mediocre "better dancers" who may have been marginally better, but deathly boring to watch and listen to in the VT.
At the end of the day, it's a prime time entertainment show first and a dance competition second. In all series we have had a good dancer win, beating any of the duffers who had all gone before actually getting a sniff of the finl.... Heck - apart from series 1, the runner up has been excellent as well.
As long as the BEST dancers get to the final, I really can't get too antsy about the order in which the cannon fodder go. There are only going to be 2-3 finalists, and I don't care if a duffer gets even to the semi as long as they don't actually keep the best out of the final itself”
^^This.
I can see no good reason to bring back the dance-off, but neither can I see a reason to go marching round the television centre with placards to protest its return...
For those who hate the dance-off, I can sympathise with the 'Gethin woz robbed' argument better than I can the 'Austin woz robbed' brigade. They really should have put three couples through to the final in series 5. Having said that, Gethin was the weakest of the three in the semi-final and it was a deserved battle between Matt and Alesha for the glitterball.
As for series 6, I may be the only one on the forum to think so, but I would have saved Lisa over Austin and I was certainly not a fan of hers! But Austin was weak in both his dances that night and Lisa, although her jive was awful, danced a beautiful waltz. The bottom two on the leaderboard were the two who were least popular with the public, so there is absolutely no reason to believe that Austin would have triumphed over Rachel or Tom if he had got to the final, where he would have had to rely on the public vote alone. I suspect the only thing he was robbed of was third place.
*hides behind the sofa from the wrath of Alli*
Originally Posted by shefair:
“which is why the public vote hard to keep their duffer favourite out of the dance off, they may well not have voted if the dance off did not exist”
“which is why the public vote hard to keep their duffer favourite out of the dance off, they may well not have voted if the dance off did not exist”
But we don't know why they voted the way that they voted, neither can we know how they might have voted under different circumstances. it's all conjecture which is also more than likely coloured by personal feelings, likes and dislikes (of judges, celebs and pros).
Originally Posted by CaroUK:
“Every time we have had a judges pet in the final they have gone out first (Zoe B/ Lisa S/ Ricky W) because the public were never going to allow them to win...”
“Every time we have had a judges pet in the final they have gone out first (Zoe B/ Lisa S/ Ricky W) because the public were never going to allow them to win...”
I'm not sure that's correct for Ricky - I don't think there was a dance off in the semi, was there? He beat Ali for the final place on just the leaderboard & votes, I think.
Originally Posted by peeve:
“^^This.
I can see no good reason to bring back the dance-off, but neither can I see a reason to go marching round the television centre with placards to protest its return...
For those who hate the dance-off, I can sympathise with the 'Gethin woz robbed' argument better than I can the 'Austin woz robbed' brigade. They really should have put three couples through to the final in series 5. Having said that, Gethin was the weakest of the three in the semi-final and it was a deserved battle between Matt and Alesha for the glitterball.
As for series 6, I may be the only one on the forum to think so, but I would have saved Lisa over Austin and I was certainly not a fan of hers! But Austin was weak in both his dances that night and Lisa, although her jive was awful, danced a beautiful waltz. The bottom two on the leaderboard were the two who were least popular with the public, so there is absolutely no reason to believe that Austin would have triumphed over Rachel or Tom if he had got to the final, where he would have had to rely on the public vote alone. I suspect the only thing he was robbed of was third place.
*hides behind the sofa from the wrath of Alli*”
“^^This.
I can see no good reason to bring back the dance-off, but neither can I see a reason to go marching round the television centre with placards to protest its return...
For those who hate the dance-off, I can sympathise with the 'Gethin woz robbed' argument better than I can the 'Austin woz robbed' brigade. They really should have put three couples through to the final in series 5. Having said that, Gethin was the weakest of the three in the semi-final and it was a deserved battle between Matt and Alesha for the glitterball.
As for series 6, I may be the only one on the forum to think so, but I would have saved Lisa over Austin and I was certainly not a fan of hers! But Austin was weak in both his dances that night and Lisa, although her jive was awful, danced a beautiful waltz. The bottom two on the leaderboard were the two who were least popular with the public, so there is absolutely no reason to believe that Austin would have triumphed over Rachel or Tom if he had got to the final, where he would have had to rely on the public vote alone. I suspect the only thing he was robbed of was third place.
*hides behind the sofa from the wrath of Alli*”
I'd have saved Lisa too.
Originally Posted by mossy2103:
“But we don't know why they voted the way that they voted, neither can we know how they might have voted under different circumstances. it's all conjecture which is also more than likely coloured by personal feelings, likes and dislikes (of judges, celebs and pros).”
“But we don't know why they voted the way that they voted, neither can we know how they might have voted under different circumstances. it's all conjecture which is also more than likely coloured by personal feelings, likes and dislikes (of judges, celebs and pros).”
no we dont know BUT it makes sense that without a dance off some people may not have bothered to vote , but if you know the minute they get into the bottom 2 they are out people are more inclined to vote.
ie the duffers have doubled their likelihood of going out if they have to avoid both last AND penultimate place
Originally Posted by peeve:
“*hides behind the sofa from the wrath of Alli*”
“*hides behind the sofa from the wrath of Alli*”
'Tis a fearsome thing
.... but...
Originally Posted by Lilystar:
“I'd have saved Lisa too.”
“I'd have saved Lisa too.”
I am Spartacus!...
....or something
Originally Posted by peeve:
“The bottom two on the leaderboard were the two who were least popular with the public, so there is absolutely no reason to believe that Austin would have triumphed over Rachel or Tom if he had got to the final, where he would have had to rely on the public vote alone. I suspect the only thing he was robbed of was third place.”
“The bottom two on the leaderboard were the two who were least popular with the public, so there is absolutely no reason to believe that Austin would have triumphed over Rachel or Tom if he had got to the final, where he would have had to rely on the public vote alone. I suspect the only thing he was robbed of was third place.”
I'd argue all of the evidence points to Austin being far more popular than Rachel, at least, if not Tom. She'd been in the bottom two twice, from the top half of the leaderboard, and he'd never been there. In the four weeks before the dance-off where he left, he'd beaten her at least twice in the public vote, and by a large margin in one case (the week where she fell into the dance-off from 2nd place out of 9 contestants, and he escaped it despite messing up his rumba, falling to 6th).
It's entirely possible that the week Austin was eliminated he topped the public vote. In fact Austin could have been the public favourite by millions of votes every single week and still gone out in fourth.
Originally Posted by Lilystar:
“I'm not sure that's correct for Ricky - I don't think there was a dance off in the semi, was there? He beat Ali for the final place on just the leaderboard & votes, I think.”
“I'm not sure that's correct for Ricky - I don't think there was a dance off in the semi, was there? He beat Ali for the final place on just the leaderboard & votes, I think.”
That's correct, yes. Given that the final of series 7 was essentially played out over two weeks because of Jade's withdrawal, Ali would probably better fit the tag "judges' pet" - on the basis of his dances in the semi-final Ricky did genuinely deserve a place in the final.
Originally Posted by Monkseal:
“I'd argue all of the evidence points to Austin being far more popular than Rachel, at least, if not Tom. She'd been in the bottom two twice, from the top half of the leaderboard, and he'd never been there. In the four weeks before the dance-off where he left, he'd beaten her at least twice in the public vote, and by a large margin in one case (the week where she fell into the dance-off from 2nd place out of 9 contestants, and he escaped it despite messing up his rumba, falling to 6th).
It's entirely possible that the week Austin was eliminated he topped the public vote. In fact Austin could have been the public favourite by millions of votes every single week and still gone out in fourth.”
“I'd argue all of the evidence points to Austin being far more popular than Rachel, at least, if not Tom. She'd been in the bottom two twice, from the top half of the leaderboard, and he'd never been there. In the four weeks before the dance-off where he left, he'd beaten her at least twice in the public vote, and by a large margin in one case (the week where she fell into the dance-off from 2nd place out of 9 contestants, and he escaped it despite messing up his rumba, falling to 6th).
It's entirely possible that the week Austin was eliminated he topped the public vote. In fact Austin could have been the public favourite by millions of votes every single week and still gone out in fourth.”
This, along with the judges saving unpopular contestants is the main reason I was delighted when the DO was dropped. I see nothing fair or kind in saving an unpopular contestant against public vote.
What point is there in slogging your guts out training when you will have no chance of winning a public vote.
Originally Posted by shefair:
“no we dont know BUT it makes sense that without a dance off some people may not have bothered to vote , but if you know the minute they get into the bottom 2 they are out people are more inclined to vote.
ie the duffers have doubled their likelihood of going out if they have to avoid both last AND penultimate place”
“no we dont know BUT it makes sense that without a dance off some people may not have bothered to vote , but if you know the minute they get into the bottom 2 they are out people are more inclined to vote.
ie the duffers have doubled their likelihood of going out if they have to avoid both last AND penultimate place”
I'm not so sure that people are more inclined to vote when there's a DO. The amount raised for Children In Need from SCD votes actually fell in Series 5 when the DO was first introduced, compared with the proceeds raised in each of Series 3 and 4.
Originally Posted by Monkseal:
“I'd argue all of the evidence points to Austin being far more popular than Rachel, at least, if not Tom. She'd been in the bottom two twice, from the top half of the leaderboard, and he'd never been there. In the four weeks before the dance-off where he left, he'd beaten her at least twice in the public vote, and by a large margin in one case (the week where she fell into the dance-off from 2nd place out of 9 contestants, and he escaped it despite messing up his rumba, falling to 6th).
It's entirely possible that the week Austin was eliminated he topped the public vote. In fact Austin could have been the public favourite by millions of votes every single week and still gone out in fourth.”
“I'd argue all of the evidence points to Austin being far more popular than Rachel, at least, if not Tom. She'd been in the bottom two twice, from the top half of the leaderboard, and he'd never been there. In the four weeks before the dance-off where he left, he'd beaten her at least twice in the public vote, and by a large margin in one case (the week where she fell into the dance-off from 2nd place out of 9 contestants, and he escaped it despite messing up his rumba, falling to 6th).
It's entirely possible that the week Austin was eliminated he topped the public vote. In fact Austin could have been the public favourite by millions of votes every single week and still gone out in fourth.”
I would honestly say that up until the show dance from Tom, Austin was the most popular, then history got re-written because of one amazing dance.
I really don't remember Tom being that popular on here at all. Most people loved Austin or Rachel. I know we're not always an accurate arbiter of public opinion, but this board seems more accurate than most others.
And how many years later, loads of us are still bitter and haven't dropped it
, so there must have been some feelings of unease at how that series finished, all imo, of course. 
Originally Posted by johnnyutah:
“It's a much more exciting, interesting show with the dance-off in it, but the Beeb immediately shoot themselves in the foot by not having the dance-off live on a Saturday night, when it would be must-watch tv, as part II of the show.
The show needs its shares of shocks & upsets, otherwise the whole thing is a foregone conclusion at the start of the series, & the drama is taken away. SCD does not succeed as 'the best dancer should win' show - if this was the case, the Beeb should put Come Dancing back on & let's see how it does. SCD is an entertainment show & should aim to provide entertainment. The dance-off is a key ingredient in this. There needs to be jeopardy and the dance-off provides it. But where they have also gone wrong in the past is not judging the couples purely on the dance-off - which they always tell the audience they will do. Also, at 2-2 it should revert to the public vote - more jeopardy = more entertainment.
But rest assured the dance-off is back purely as a way for TPTB to 'manage' the series, & guide it towards the couples they want to see in the final. If they want Denise VO in the final, for instance, rest assured they will save her in a dance-off, even if her & James are outdanced by a male celeb & his pro partner.
In reality, the dance-off will be used as a way to subtly pick off a popular male they do not want to win - this is how they ousted Gethin, & also got rid of Austin Healy. Tom Chambers would have gone too in the semi-final dance off had it not been for the viewers' outcry over the scoreboard technicality. If they allowed SCD to be a level playing field, a popular male would have won the last 7 series: Darren Gough, Mark Ramprakesh, Gethin Jones, Tom Chambers, Chris Hollins, Matt Baker, Harry Judd. Alesha's win was only enabled by nobbling Gethin; Kara was only able to win by constantly de-ramping Matt Baker while heavily playing upon the behind-the-scenes romance between her & Artem.
SCD requires editorial intervention, including dance-offs, to try and prevent a popular, middle England-friendly male monopoly - the demographic of voters heavily favours such males because it's mostly middle-aged women who vote.”
“It's a much more exciting, interesting show with the dance-off in it, but the Beeb immediately shoot themselves in the foot by not having the dance-off live on a Saturday night, when it would be must-watch tv, as part II of the show.
The show needs its shares of shocks & upsets, otherwise the whole thing is a foregone conclusion at the start of the series, & the drama is taken away. SCD does not succeed as 'the best dancer should win' show - if this was the case, the Beeb should put Come Dancing back on & let's see how it does. SCD is an entertainment show & should aim to provide entertainment. The dance-off is a key ingredient in this. There needs to be jeopardy and the dance-off provides it. But where they have also gone wrong in the past is not judging the couples purely on the dance-off - which they always tell the audience they will do. Also, at 2-2 it should revert to the public vote - more jeopardy = more entertainment.
But rest assured the dance-off is back purely as a way for TPTB to 'manage' the series, & guide it towards the couples they want to see in the final. If they want Denise VO in the final, for instance, rest assured they will save her in a dance-off, even if her & James are outdanced by a male celeb & his pro partner.
In reality, the dance-off will be used as a way to subtly pick off a popular male they do not want to win - this is how they ousted Gethin, & also got rid of Austin Healy. Tom Chambers would have gone too in the semi-final dance off had it not been for the viewers' outcry over the scoreboard technicality. If they allowed SCD to be a level playing field, a popular male would have won the last 7 series: Darren Gough, Mark Ramprakesh, Gethin Jones, Tom Chambers, Chris Hollins, Matt Baker, Harry Judd. Alesha's win was only enabled by nobbling Gethin; Kara was only able to win by constantly de-ramping Matt Baker while heavily playing upon the behind-the-scenes romance between her & Artem.
SCD requires editorial intervention, including dance-offs, to try and prevent a popular, middle England-friendly male monopoly - the demographic of voters heavily favours such males because it's mostly middle-aged women who vote.”
The dance off was NOT used to get rid of Gethin - nor in spite of my hatred of in the case of Austin was it not used to get rid of him either - they liked Lisa's waltz so much that under the system they had to put her through unless she really messed up in the dance-off. The scoring of semi final with the voting mess up that rendered it null and void probably wasn't a conspiracy either but my God they couldn't have made it look more like one if they'd tried.
It was the bloody system which was at fault - in effect though it made the votes of supporters of both meaningless - as understandably Tom and Alesha's supporters made sure they went through. However what they do need to do which would have made things fairer is that the dance off at the two dance stage should have been done on the lowest scoring rather than the highest scoring one. Lisa should not have been able to get away with just doing one good dance out of two (as Len brutally pointed out to Rachel - it isn't a BOGOF situtation but doing it on the strongest dance in effect mean it was) - her jive pitted against Austin's AS may actually have given him a chance ditto Gethin - he was always going to lose against a 'perfect' waltz - he might have stood a chance against Matt's AT and as a Matt fan I'd liked to have seen if he could performed it better with more confidence - he was obviously horribly scared of all going tits up again when he originally did it.
The problem with Gethin as well was a lack of a fall back plan to ensure a three person final something that has since been instituted - I thought that series five had a cracking final in terms of the standard of dancing but the result was a foregone conclusion and with three people there would have at least been a real battle for the runner up position. I fail to see how having a three person final between Alesha, Matt DA and Gethin wouldn't have made the final even better.
Originally Posted by Monaogg:
“This, along with the judges saving unpopular contestants is the main reason I was delighted when the DO was dropped. I see nothing fair or kind in saving an unpopular contestant against public vote.
What point is there in slogging your guts out training when you will have no chance of winning a public vote.”
“This, along with the judges saving unpopular contestants is the main reason I was delighted when the DO was dropped. I see nothing fair or kind in saving an unpopular contestant against public vote.
What point is there in slogging your guts out training when you will have no chance of winning a public vote.
”
Debatably, though, that's still the case without the dance-off. Historically the winner has been somebody who was never in the dance-off - Natasha Kaplinsky was there once early in series 1, and Alesha was there in the quarter-finals of series 5 (and it's possible that she only won because of the mathematics of the semi-final meaning Gethin remained in the bottom two in spite of possibly having the most public vote, but I digress), but they're the only two exceptions to the rule. Falling into the bottom two, dance-off or no dance-off, means you're almost certainly not going to win.
Originally Posted by frally:
“I'm not so sure that people are more inclined to vote when there's a DO. The amount raised for Children In Need from SCD votes actually fell in Series 5 when the DO was first introduced, compared with the proceeds raised in each of Series 3 and 4.”
“I'm not so sure that people are more inclined to vote when there's a DO. The amount raised for Children In Need from SCD votes actually fell in Series 5 when the DO was first introduced, compared with the proceeds raised in each of Series 3 and 4.”
I might be misremembering, but didn't the BBC change the voting system around that point? Because originally the phone lines were open all week and you could vote at any time.
Originally Posted by Alli-F:
“I would honestly say that up until the show dance from Tom, Austin was the most popular, then history got re-written because of one amazing dance.
I really don't remember Tom being that popular on here at all. Most people loved Austin or Rachel. I know we're not always an accurate arbiter of public opinion, but this board seems more accurate than most others.”
“I would honestly say that up until the show dance from Tom, Austin was the most popular, then history got re-written because of one amazing dance.
I really don't remember Tom being that popular on here at all. Most people loved Austin or Rachel. I know we're not always an accurate arbiter of public opinion, but this board seems more accurate than most others.”
After Semi-final-gate, the Beeb released the result of the public phone vote for the semi. Tom won, and he also must have won the phone vote in the first half of the final to be able to perform the showdance in competition in the first place - so he was already more popular than Rachel, although Austin is more debatable.
Honestly, I don't believe the showdance ever makes a difference - the public have already chosen their winner going into the final, and nothing short of their chosen candidate punching their partner in the face will change their mind.
Originally Posted by cwickham:
“Debatably, though, that's still the case without the dance-off. Historically the winner has been somebody who was never in the dance-off - Natasha Kaplinsky was there once early in series 1, and Alesha was there in the quarter-finals of series 5 (and it's possible that she only won because of the mathematics of the semi-final meaning Gethin remained in the bottom two in spite of possibly having the most public vote, but I digress), but they're the only two exceptions to the rule. Falling into the bottom two, dance-off or no dance-off, means you're almost certainly not going to win.
”
“Debatably, though, that's still the case without the dance-off. Historically the winner has been somebody who was never in the dance-off - Natasha Kaplinsky was there once early in series 1, and Alesha was there in the quarter-finals of series 5 (and it's possible that she only won because of the mathematics of the semi-final meaning Gethin remained in the bottom two in spite of possibly having the most public vote, but I digress), but they're the only two exceptions to the rule. Falling into the bottom two, dance-off or no dance-off, means you're almost certainly not going to win.
”
At least if you're second bottom you can consider yourself as being popular enough to have stayed, especially if you were near the bottom of the leaderboard anyway.
It can't be much fun to be saved by the judges week after week.
Originally Posted by fridgesoup:
“'Tis a fearsome thing .... but...
I am Spartacus!...
....or something”
“'Tis a fearsome thing
.... but...I am Spartacus!...
....or something
”
It wouldn't be Strictly if we didn't have our annual 'Austin woz robbed' debate. Shame I visited DS this evening too late to yell 'BINGO!' at the post about our voting with our ovaries...
I think the only time I've voted with my ovaries was when I voted (once and once only) for Scott and Natalie's jive, but I switched allegiance the following week to vote for Kara and Artem.
Of course, being a pathetic middle-aged woman, it could be argued that I vote with my ovaries by voting for the male professional dancer...
What particularly annoys me is how they make it up as they go along.
Ali and Brian should definitely have gone home against Zoe and James. She could barely dance that week. If they're going to make it a proper competition they should at least stick to their rules.
Ali and Brian should definitely have gone home against Zoe and James. She could barely dance that week. If they're going to make it a proper competition they should at least stick to their rules.
Originally Posted by peeve:
“^^This.
I can see no good reason to bring back the dance-off, but neither can I see a reason to go marching round the television centre with placards to protest its return...
For those who hate the dance-off, I can sympathise with the 'Gethin woz robbed' argument better than I can the 'Austin woz robbed' brigade. They really should have put three couples through to the final in series 5. Having said that, Gethin was the weakest of the three in the semi-final and it was a deserved battle between Matt and Alesha for the glitterball.
As for series 6, I may be the only one on the forum to think so, but I would have saved Lisa over Austin and I was certainly not a fan of hers! But Austin was weak in both his dances that night and Lisa, although her jive was awful, danced a beautiful waltz. The bottom two on the leaderboard were the two who were least popular with the public, so there is absolutely no reason to believe that Austin would have triumphed over Rachel or Tom if he had got to the final, where he would have had to rely on the public vote alone. I suspect the only thing he was robbed of was third place.
*hides behind the sofa from the wrath of Alli*”
“^^This.
I can see no good reason to bring back the dance-off, but neither can I see a reason to go marching round the television centre with placards to protest its return...
For those who hate the dance-off, I can sympathise with the 'Gethin woz robbed' argument better than I can the 'Austin woz robbed' brigade. They really should have put three couples through to the final in series 5. Having said that, Gethin was the weakest of the three in the semi-final and it was a deserved battle between Matt and Alesha for the glitterball.
As for series 6, I may be the only one on the forum to think so, but I would have saved Lisa over Austin and I was certainly not a fan of hers! But Austin was weak in both his dances that night and Lisa, although her jive was awful, danced a beautiful waltz. The bottom two on the leaderboard were the two who were least popular with the public, so there is absolutely no reason to believe that Austin would have triumphed over Rachel or Tom if he had got to the final, where he would have had to rely on the public vote alone. I suspect the only thing he was robbed of was third place.
*hides behind the sofa from the wrath of Alli*”
I think the point was that Austin and Erin tried equally to do both dances whilst Brendan and Lisa specialised on getting one to a higher standard - as Len said to Rachel it shouldn't be BOGOF - that rackled and I was extremely peeved that my vote to try and save Austin meant nothing, that's when I understood the rage of the Gethinites.
I suspect that had things been different then the winners for those years would have been the same (although I do know that some Gethinites and probably some Austin supporters think they would have won) but what rackles is that both Austin and Gethin fans would have been able to see their showdances at least - although for me with one good thing that came out of Austin being robbed of a final place was the hilarity of Bacofoil.
Originally Posted by Saturn:
“What particularly annoys me is how they make it up as they go along.
Ali and Brian should definitely have gone home against Zoe and James. She could barely dance that week. If they're going to make it a proper competition they should at least stick to their rules.”
“What particularly annoys me is how they make it up as they go along.
Ali and Brian should definitely have gone home against Zoe and James. She could barely dance that week. If they're going to make it a proper competition they should at least stick to their rules.”
I don't think I agree with this. Both Len and Craig marked Ali and Brian higher than they marked Zoe and James and, no surprise, voted for Ali and Brian to stay. Alesha had marked Zoe and James higher and, again no surprise, voted for them. Bruno had marked them both equally and chose Ali and Brian, so it was a very close decision. They were neither of them great, to be frank, but Ali's splits were better...
Originally Posted by Saturn:
“What particularly annoys me is how they make it up as they go along.
Ali and Brian should definitely have gone home against Zoe and James. She could barely dance that week. If they're going to make it a proper competition they should at least stick to their rules.”
“What particularly annoys me is how they make it up as they go along.
Ali and Brian should definitely have gone home against Zoe and James. She could barely dance that week. If they're going to make it a proper competition they should at least stick to their rules.”
To be fair, Ali was injured - I'd be more inclined to blame the public for letting an injured dancer into the dance-off. I think for the most part the judges were reasonably consistent in voting for whoever gave the best performance in the dance-off - Craig's mentioned on ITT a few times that if they were voting on the earlier performance and not the dance-off one he would have gone the other way.
Originally Posted by CaroUK:
“Well Widdy excepted - the real duffers rarely last past halfway.. with or without the dance off, as was proved in series after series.... If anything - the presence of the dance off saw the likes of Sarge and Kate G get waaay further than they would have without it - mind you I'd also hazard a guess that it was the nasty comments from the panel that kept some in too - fair enough give low marks for a poor dance - but instead of being nasty for the sake of a soundbite on top of the low marks - offer CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, in English not jargon (yes Craig - that means you!), and you won't trigger the sympathy vote.
Kenny and Gavin WERE duffers at the beginning, but both of them worked hard at it, and whilst they never rose to Matt Dawson's heights, they ended up up doing quite presentable dances which resulted in them getting where they did.
The judges can (and do) manipulate the leader board to keep their favourites safe in the early weeks anyway - and we have seen them do that in series after series (Zoe B/ Ricky W/ Emma B etc), and even in the later stages they can keep them out of danger by putting them at the top of the leaderboard even when they don't deserve to be there (Lisa S).
If i was a celeb (like Lisa S) who was dumped into the DO week after week only to be saved by the judges for further humiliation the next week, I think I would prefer to just be allowed to go.... if the public don't like you - they won't vote for you - so why flog a dead horse??
Every time we have had a judges pet in the final they have gone out first (Zoe B/ Lisa S/ Ricky W) because the public were never going to allow them to win...”
“Well Widdy excepted - the real duffers rarely last past halfway.. with or without the dance off, as was proved in series after series.... If anything - the presence of the dance off saw the likes of Sarge and Kate G get waaay further than they would have without it - mind you I'd also hazard a guess that it was the nasty comments from the panel that kept some in too - fair enough give low marks for a poor dance - but instead of being nasty for the sake of a soundbite on top of the low marks - offer CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, in English not jargon (yes Craig - that means you!), and you won't trigger the sympathy vote.
Kenny and Gavin WERE duffers at the beginning, but both of them worked hard at it, and whilst they never rose to Matt Dawson's heights, they ended up up doing quite presentable dances which resulted in them getting where they did.
The judges can (and do) manipulate the leader board to keep their favourites safe in the early weeks anyway - and we have seen them do that in series after series (Zoe B/ Ricky W/ Emma B etc), and even in the later stages they can keep them out of danger by putting them at the top of the leaderboard even when they don't deserve to be there (Lisa S).
If i was a celeb (like Lisa S) who was dumped into the DO week after week only to be saved by the judges for further humiliation the next week, I think I would prefer to just be allowed to go.... if the public don't like you - they won't vote for you - so why flog a dead horse??
Every time we have had a judges pet in the final they have gone out first (Zoe B/ Lisa S/ Ricky W) because the public were never going to allow them to win...”
In 9 series only twice has it been won by someone who has been in the bottom 2 - and one of those was Natasha, early doors, series one when the world was young and voting ways unknown
I would say that if a celeb finds themselves in the DO twice (or 3 times at a push) it should be automatic elimination because as things stand, they ain't gonna win
Originally Posted by katmobile:
“I think the point was that Austin and Erin tried equally to do both dances whilst Brendan and Lisa specialised on getting one to a higher standard - as Len said to Rachel it shouldn't be BOGOF - that rackled and I was extremely peeved that my vote to try and save Austin meant nothing, that's when I understood the rage of the Gethinites.
I suspect that had things been different then the winners for those years would have been the same (although I do know that some Gethinites and probably some Austin supporters think they would have won) but what rackles is that both Austin and Gethin fans would have been able to see their showdances at least - although for me with one good thing that came out of Austin being robbed of a final place was the hilarity of Bacofoil.”
“I think the point was that Austin and Erin tried equally to do both dances whilst Brendan and Lisa specialised on getting one to a higher standard - as Len said to Rachel it shouldn't be BOGOF - that rackled and I was extremely peeved that my vote to try and save Austin meant nothing, that's when I understood the rage of the Gethinites.
I suspect that had things been different then the winners for those years would have been the same (although I do know that some Gethinites and probably some Austin supporters think they would have won) but what rackles is that both Austin and Gethin fans would have been able to see their showdances at least - although for me with one good thing that came out of Austin being robbed of a final place was the hilarity of Bacofoil.”
I won't argue with you, Kat - well, at least not on the deliciousness of Bacofoil, but... I was underwhelmed by Austin's AS, which was, IIRC, a foxtrot with a lift or two thrown in right at the end, as if Erin had suddenly remembered that it was supposed to be an AS. I'm sorry to say I didn't feel they'd worked that hard on it at all.
But I must say that series 6 was unique for me in that I had no favourite, so I was a bit bewildered by the Austin love...
Originally Posted by cwickham:
“
After Semi-final-gate, the Beeb released the result of the public phone vote for the semi. Tom won, and he also must have won the phone vote in the first half of the final to be able to perform the showdance in competition in the first place - so he was already more popular than Rachel, although Austin is more debatable.
Honestly, I don't believe the showdance ever makes a difference - the public have already chosen their winner going into the final, and nothing short of their chosen candidate punching their partner in the face will change their mind.”
“
After Semi-final-gate, the Beeb released the result of the public phone vote for the semi. Tom won, and he also must have won the phone vote in the first half of the final to be able to perform the showdance in competition in the first place - so he was already more popular than Rachel, although Austin is more debatable.
Honestly, I don't believe the showdance ever makes a difference - the public have already chosen their winner going into the final, and nothing short of their chosen candidate punching their partner in the face will change their mind.”
Tom had won the minute Austin was voted out - in an 'any one but Lisa or Rachel' stance.
The kerfuffle with the semi-final scoring which meant that it was impossible for him to escape a dance off just added to the apparent fixed-ness of it all.
The bad feeling from the later stages of series 6 spilled over into series 7 as well.
Originally Posted by peeve:
“^^This.
I can see no good reason to bring back the dance-off, but neither can I see a reason to go marching round the television centre with placards to protest its return...
For those who hate the dance-off, I can sympathise with the 'Gethin woz robbed' argument better than I can the 'Austin woz robbed' brigade. They really should have put three couples through to the final in series 5. Having said that, Gethin was the weakest of the three in the semi-final and it was a deserved battle between Matt and Alesha for the glitterball.
As for series 6, I may be the only one on the forum to think so, but I would have saved Lisa over Austin and I was certainly not a fan of hers! But Austin was weak in both his dances that night and Lisa, although her jive was awful, danced a beautiful waltz. The bottom two on the leaderboard were the two who were least popular with the public, so there is absolutely no reason to believe that Austin would have triumphed over Rachel or Tom if he had got to the final, where he would have had to rely on the public vote alone. I suspect the only thing he was robbed of was third place.
*hides behind the sofa from the wrath of Alli*”
“^^This.
I can see no good reason to bring back the dance-off, but neither can I see a reason to go marching round the television centre with placards to protest its return...
For those who hate the dance-off, I can sympathise with the 'Gethin woz robbed' argument better than I can the 'Austin woz robbed' brigade. They really should have put three couples through to the final in series 5. Having said that, Gethin was the weakest of the three in the semi-final and it was a deserved battle between Matt and Alesha for the glitterball.
As for series 6, I may be the only one on the forum to think so, but I would have saved Lisa over Austin and I was certainly not a fan of hers! But Austin was weak in both his dances that night and Lisa, although her jive was awful, danced a beautiful waltz. The bottom two on the leaderboard were the two who were least popular with the public, so there is absolutely no reason to believe that Austin would have triumphed over Rachel or Tom if he had got to the final, where he would have had to rely on the public vote alone. I suspect the only thing he was robbed of was third place.
*hides behind the sofa from the wrath of Alli*”
It's fine Hun.
. I said earlier in the thread, I think, that Erin should have concentrated on the ballroom and forgotten about the Latin just like Brendan did. Austin was shafted by the order of the dances rather than Lisa per se, but I do think its unfair to have a waltz or VW in semis as its just too easy to score 39 or 40 at that point.
It's why I think those doing the cha cha next week have such an advantage because they have the waltz in the locker for later in the run, but its also a risk because cha chas are usually bottom of leader board in the first week.
Plus my Austin woz robbed is tongue in cheek, honest.
he was, I'm over it, but I think it's funny. I will be sending the boys round though.
Originally Posted by Alli-F:
“It's fine Hun.. I said earlier in the thread, I think, that Erin should have concentrated on the ballroom and forgotten about the Latin just like Brendan did.
Austin was shafted by the order of the dances rather than Lisa per se, but I do think its unfair to have a waltz or VW in semis as its just too easy to score 39 or 40 at that point.
It's why I think those doing the cha cha next week have such an advantage because they have the waltz in the locker for later in the run, but its also a risk because cha chas are usually bottom of leader board in the first week.
Plus my Austin woz robbed is tongue in cheek, honest. he was, I'm over it, but I think it's funny.
I will be sending the boys round though.”
“It's fine Hun.
. I said earlier in the thread, I think, that Erin should have concentrated on the ballroom and forgotten about the Latin just like Brendan did. Austin was shafted by the order of the dances rather than Lisa per se, but I do think its unfair to have a waltz or VW in semis as its just too easy to score 39 or 40 at that point.
It's why I think those doing the cha cha next week have such an advantage because they have the waltz in the locker for later in the run, but its also a risk because cha chas are usually bottom of leader board in the first week.
Plus my Austin woz robbed is tongue in cheek, honest.
he was, I'm over it, but I think it's funny. I will be sending the boys round though.
”
But at leastnow they have the safety net of <hopefully> a ballroom the second week before any elimation.
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