[smcbeath]

So i decided a few weeks ago that i wanted to wall mount my samsung 55d8000. So i bought wall brackets, floating shelves and a yamaha sound bar 101 that i want to mount. At the same time i bought a driller/screwdriver, only to find that it only seems to do wood or metal, and i have read my instructions for mounting and it says that i need to mount into concrete.

So can someone recommend a concrete driller to me. The wall i am drilling into seems to be wood then concrete, my current driller gets so far and the it hits a concrete wall Also do i need to buy new drill bits for concrete? I have bought drill bits for my dewalt screwdriver. Since i am double spending on drills, i am looking for cheap and cheerful, only for home use etc I was looking at

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Skil-6280-Co...8995259&sr=1-2

I did my DIY warm up yesterday, put up 3 blinds with my dewalt driver.

[Nigel Goodwin]

That would be fine - you need masonry drills to drill a concrete or brick wall - for fitting TV brackets it's usually 8mm or 10mm depending on the type.

How far behind the front surface is the actual wall?, this is one factor in deciding what fixings you use.

Modern properties (or refurbs) tend to use 'dot and bab' plastering, where plaster board is just stuck on the wall using 'dots' of plaster (leaving a gap in between), and it sounds like that may be what you have?.

This type of wall means you can't use the standard fixings because they are too short (and while it may seem OK initially, they fall off in a few weeks).

Previously I've used 80x8mm frame fixings on these types of walls (as used for fastening door frames in place), but more recently I've found specific 'dot and bab' fixings and use those instead (but you might not be able to find them in a DIY store). Either work fine, but the correct fixings actually screw in to the plaster board and make it slightly easier.

[ProDave]

Yes how deep before you hit the brick is crucial.

Up here timber stud and plasterboard is more common than dot and dab. It all depends where you are and how the house was built.

The other important details are, to do the bob properly, bury all the av and power cables in the wall somehow. That is often a LOT harder than actually fixing the tv bracket. Again very dependant upon the construction of the wall.

But for drilling masonry, you need a hammer drill and a masonry drill bit. I would be very surprised if your new drill does not have a hammer setting on it.

Of course if you are going to drill a lot of holes in masonry, I would suggest an SDS drill and drill bits. The difference from a normal hammer drill to SDS is like chalk and cheese. You can buy a cheap "no brand" SDS drill for £30 and I would say well worth it even for a serious DIY user. A professional user might want to spend more and get a known brand. Not because the known brand will drill any better, but simply it's likely to last a bit longer.

[grahamlthompson]

In Aldi this Sunday

http://www.aldi.co.uk/uk/html/offers...12-09-28-11-18

[ProDave]

Originally Posted by grahamlthompson

In Aldi this Sunday

http://www.aldi.co.uk/uk/html/offers...12-09-28-11-18

That should do nicely and should give years of use for a DIYer.

As I say, once you have tried an SDS drill, you would never again consider using an ordinary "hammer drill"

I only regret that it wasn't until I became self employed that I discovered SDS drills. For years before that I struggled with rubbish hammer drills. I wish someone had imparted that knowledge to me when I was younger.

[smcbeath]

Cheers for the replies. The holes about 4cm deep before i hit the concrete. I live in a old tenement building, and i have the lift on the opposite side of my wall. The instructions for the wall mount states -

Drill 6 holes of m10 diameter and 50 depth( i assume 50mm/5cm ) in the concrete wall or the hard wood wall. Then wedge six plastic concrete anchors into the holes.

So you think i need bigger screws then, is that what the 80x8m are? Sorry i am a newbie DIYer, that shouldnt be allowed anywhere near power drills. Saying that, i think i will take a wander over to aldi's in the morning for the drill. Its a 1 mile walk. Which was cool but now i realise i will have to walk back as well, thats 2 miles, dam it

[ProDave]

Yes do as Nigel says, get Frame fixing bolts (for windows) and drill at least 50mm into the stone. That should give you a good fixing.

[Nigel Goodwin]

Originally Posted by smcbeath

Cheers for the replies. The holes about 4cm deep before i hit the concrete. I live in a old tenement building, and i have the lift on the opposite side of my wall. The instructions for the wall mount states -

Drill 6 holes of m10 diameter and 50 depth( i assume 50mm/5cm ) in the concrete wall or the hard wood wall. Then wedge six plastic concrete anchors into the holes.

Notice the two sections I've underlined - a 50mm plug would only be 10mm inside the wall - this is completely unsafe, and would soon fall off (I've seen it numerous times in self fitted TV's).

So you think i need bigger screws then, is that what the 80x8m are?

80 is 80mm long (so would give you a far safer 40mm inside the wall. The 8 is the diameter of the fixing, 8mm instead of 10mm - you could use 80x10 if you wanted, but 80x8 are perfectly fine, and are the same diameter as the specific 'dot and dab' fixings.

[smcbeath]

Ok think i got it sussed now. Just back from aldi @ beach in aberdeen. They still had over 10 left. It was quite heavy, got sore arms carrying it home, it was a long mile

The drill comes with 12/14/16mm drill bits.

So will this be ok to use -

http://www.amazon.co.uk/MASONRY-Maso...079887&sr=8-33

Will need to have a look at my sound bar and floating shelves next to see what size of screws i need for them.

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by smcbeath

Ok think i got it sussed now. Just back from aldi @ beach in aberdeen. They still had over 10 left. It was quite heavy, got sore arms carrying it home, it was a long mile

The drill comes with 12/14/16mm drill bits.

So will this be ok to use -

http://www.amazon.co.uk/MASONRY-Maso...079887&sr=8-33

Will need to have a look at my sound bar and floating shelves next to see what size of screws i need for them.

You need SDS plus drill bits assumming you bought the SDS drill, like the ones that came with the drill.

eg

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SDS-PLUS-M...item3cc12c435f

[smcbeath]

Originally Posted by grahamlthompson

You need SDS plus drill bits assumming you bought the SDS drill, like the ones that came with the drill.

eg

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SDS-PLUS-M...item3cc12c435f

Cool, you just saved me some money there. Hopefully the last question and it has to be about the screws, are these ok

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Scre.../sd1950/p83958

and do the plastic anchors/plugs come with them?

[Nigel Goodwin]

Originally Posted by smcbeath

Cool, you just saved me some money there. Hopefully the last question and it has to be about the screws, are these ok

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Scre.../sd1950/p83958

and do the plastic anchors/plugs come with them?

Yes, those are the ones - they come complete.

Use at least 80x8, that should be enough for the 40mm gap to the wall. If you want even more security, then use the 100x8 instead, or even the 100x10.

But I've fitted LOT'S of TV's with the 80x8 fixings, and never had a problem.

You can buy them in any DIY store, but they tend to be a LOT more expensive than the prices listed there.

[smcbeath]

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

Yes, those are the ones - they come complete.

Use at least 80x8, that should be enough for the 40mm gap to the wall. If you want even more security, then use the 100x8 instead, or even the 100x10.

But I've fitted LOT'S of TV's with the 80x8 fixings, and never had a problem.

You can buy them in any DIY store, but they tend to be a LOT more expensive than the prices listed there.

Thanks for all the help, i was a sucker for the free delivery if you spend over £10, if not express, wed, was cheapest at £5 delivery. So i ordered the following

00004 x 1 Free Express Delivery Order Over 10 £0.00
13305 x 2 Frame Fixing 8mm x 100mm 10 Pack £2.20
44842 x 1 Catalogue (Current) Each £0.00
61889 x 2 Frame Fixing 10mm x 100mm 10 Pack £3.30
84489 x 1 Safety Kit Each £4.92
£10.42

[Nefrati]

you never "need" concrete. you only need to fasten into what you have in the wall that will bear the weight, either steel or wooden studs or concrete. tv is no different from anything else you need to attach to the wall, hardware store always has the right anchors, buy the right size and depth and load rating for your wall and load and it will be fine. concrete requires a concrete drill bit. without a hammer drill it just takes longer but is quite possible, i've drilled 1/2" holes into brick mortar to mount a tv before, you just work it in and out slowly to remove the ground up material...

that tv is a mere 35lb, no issue for a wall if mounted correctly.

if you have concrete in the wall you need to buy concrete anchors. how much all this matters depends on if your tv mount is extendable or not, the more levering force on the mount the more the strength matters, if you are flat mounting then you can get away with a lot, but i'd still suggest concrete anchors, either plastic or lead to ensure it cannot be pulled away from the wall by anyone.

Originally Posted by ProDave

But for drilling masonry, you need a hammer drill and a masonry drill bit. I would be very surprised if your new drill does not have a hammer setting on it.

i would be surprised if it did include it, most low/mid end drills do not have the hammer feature, it costs more.

but for just a tv mount, patience can over come the lack of hammer drill

[Nigel Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Nefrati

i would be surprised if it did include it, most low/mid end drills do not have the hammer feature, it costs more.

but for just a tv mount, patience can over come the lack of hammer drill

Only the absolute cheapest drills won't have hammer - and most of those will as well.

However - in many brick walls, you won't be able to drill it at all without at least a hammer drill - unless you have only very soft bricks.

[ProDave]

Originally Posted by Nefrati

but for just a tv mount, patience can over come the lack of hammer drill

I hope it's not a party wall.

Which would your neighbour prefer:

A few seconds of an SDS drill running to drill the hole quickly and eficciently?

Or several minutes / hours while you try in vain to get your non hammer drill to make an impression on the wall?

I'm glad I'm not your neighbour.

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

Only the absolute cheapest drills won't have hammer - and most of those will as well.

However - in many brick walls, you won't be able to drill it at all without at least a hammer drill - unless you have only very soft bricks.

There's a hell of a difference between a cheap hammer drill and a a pneumatic action drill. The latter goes through the hardest brick and concrete like butter. Cheap hammer drills generally run far too fast and melt the brazing on the tungsten carbide drill bits so they fall out and the high temperatures produce a extemely hard glass type barrier. Strikes me you haven't tried drilling a really hard bricks or concrete with really hard pebbles in it.

I remember some years ago trying to drill a 18mm hole through a twin cavity wall to get a 15 mm pipe through to an extension. After 20 mins and two drill bits later, a pneumatic SDS+ drill went through in seconds,

[Nigel Goodwin]

Originally Posted by grahamlthompson

There's a hell of a difference between a cheap hammer drill and a a pneumatic action drill. The latter goes through the hardest brick and concrete like butter. Cheap hammer drills generally run far too fast and melt the brazing on the tungsten carbide drill bits so they fall out and the high temperatures produce a extemely hard glass type barrier. Strikes me you haven't tried drilling a really hard bricks or concrete with really hard pebbles in it.

Why would you think that? - it wasn't relevant to my post, which was about the total unsuitability of non-hammer drills for drilling walls.

SDS are obviously better than hammer drills, but a hammer drill will usually do the job where a non-hammer won't at all.

A decent hammer drill isn't that far short of an SDS, unless you're looking at larger holes as you often are with SDS - my old 850W Bosch hammer drill at home is amazing on brick or concrete walls

At work, specifically for fitting TV's on walls, I use a cordless hammer drill for most installs (because it's small, light, and easy), but also take a mains SDS drill for the odd occasions where the cordless hammer struggles (or won't touch it ).

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

Why would you think that? - it wasn't relevant to my post, which was about the total unsuitability of non-hammer drills for drilling walls.

SDS are obviously better than hammer drills, but a hammer drill will usually do the job where a non-hammer won't at all.

A decent hammer drill isn't that far short of an SDS, unless you're looking at larger holes as you often are with SDS - my old 850W Bosch hammer drill at home is amazing on brick or concrete walls

At work, specifically for fitting TV's on walls, I use a cordless hammer drill for most installs (because it's small, light, and easy), but also take a mains SDS drill for the odd occasions where the cordless hammer struggles (or won't touch it ).

SDS is the chuckless fitting for drill bits, all SDS drills wont be pneumatic. A SDS percussion drill won't be any advantage over any other provided a suitable drill speed can be selected.

[Nefrati]

Originally Posted by ProDave

I hope it's not a party wall.

Which would your neighbour prefer:

A few seconds of an SDS drill running to drill the hole quickly and eficciently?

Or several minutes / hours while you try in vain to get your non hammer drill to make an impression on the wall?

I'm glad I'm not your neighbour.

i've bored out 3-4 inch deep holes into concrete/mortar, it takes a few minutes but it works. you shouldn't be doing this in the middle of the night but it isn't really a big deal for a wall mount. the speed thing matters if you are a contractor and have to drill a couple hundred holes while on the clock, but for the 4-6 u'd need for a wall mount? its not a big deal man....not at all.

[Nigel Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Nefrati

i've bored out 3-4 inch deep holes into concrete/mortar, it takes a few minutes but it works. you shouldn't be doing this in the middle of the night but it isn't really a big deal for a wall mount. the speed thing matters if you are a contractor and have to drill a couple hundred holes while on the clock, but for the 4-6 u'd need for a wall mount? its not a big deal man....not at all.

I can only assume you've only ever drilled really crap walls - perhaps only breeze block?.

On many brick walls you'd never manage to drill a single hole without at least a hammer drill, no matter how long you tried.

[Nefrati]

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

I can only assume you've only ever drilled really crap walls - perhaps only breeze block?.

On many brick walls you'd never manage to drill a single hole without at least a hammer drill, no matter how long you tried.

I don't think you've tried....using the appropriate drill bit it will work, it takes time but it works.

you must be imagining people have some kind of exotic high strength and density concrete in their homes....

[smcbeath]

Alright, me again. My stuff arrived and i had a quick play with it. Started at the bottom with my floating shelves. I stuck on the mount that has a spirit level built in and i drew a circle for each hole. Used the sds drill, once i switched the right setting it was very good/quick, at going through the concrete THE POWER, i need stabilisers when using it.

My problems are that i never properly measured out the holes and my top left hole is about 5-10mm too high, lesson number 1 learned. No real problem will just start again, a couple of inches to the left. Or i will try the shelves with just 3 screws. Only putting xbox/sky hd, blu ray player on them, would be more comfortable if it was one of the bottom holes that was out.

So i got my holes in the wall, put in the plastic plugs/anchors, then i tried to drill in the screws, they only go as far as an inch from the wall before they wont go in any further, my dewalt screwdriver wont drill anymore/destroying the nail face/the drill bit just pops out? Just wondering if there is any special tools for this job, or if anyone can recommend a new drill bit. I had a search on the web but dont think i am wording it correctly

top to bottom, my set up

Top - Samsung 55" d8000 - 16.2kg (why i choose led instead of plasma panny 55vt, plus power consumption)

Middle - Yamaha yas 101 sound bar 4.2kg

Bottom - Triple wall mount 9.3kg plus holds upto 30kg,

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...ls_o03_s00_i00

If i ever get this done it should look squint/good

[Nigel Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Nefrati

I don't think you've tried....using the appropriate drill bit it will work, it takes time but it works.

I only work 8 hours a day, I can't afford multiple days just to drill a single hole

you must be imagining people have some kind of exotic high strength and density concrete in their homes....

You obviously don't fit TV's on walls professionally, many houses are completely undrillable without at least a hammer drill (and a fair few require an SDS drill) - I wouldn't attempt it without one, because it doesn't work (unless the walls are really weak).

[Nefrati]

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

I only work 8 hours a day, I can't afford multiple days just to drill a single hole



You obviously don't fit TV's on walls professionally, many houses are completely undrillable without at least a hammer drill (and a fair few require an SDS drill) - I wouldn't attempt it without one, because it doesn't work (unless the walls are really weak).

the advice was never for professional installer.

the point was for someone who has to install 1 tv every few years if that, drilling 1 set of 4 standard mount holes in a concrete or brick/mortar wall is just not that hard with a normal drill. its 4 holes. one time. unless you move the tv, the next tv can use the same 4 holes...and on and on...