I don't want to get involved in a game of Ratings Thread tennis with this, so I'll just point out one of the main reasons, which has been mentioned on here a few times: More children are watching the shows on CBBC than on BBC One. Blue Peter is reaching more children premiering on CBBC than it did premiering on BBC One. Often the total numbers for programmes are better on BBC One, but if a huge chunk of them are just adults turning on early for Pointless, then it's a bit, erm, pointless.

I think ITV got criticism for doing it years before the digital switchover, and, at a time when their CITV channel wasn't available on Freeview in Wales. All the children in Wales without satellite telly lost their favourite shows at a drop of a hat.

Arguably, the BBC are persisting with CBBC on BBC One and BBC Two for two months longer than they need to. DSO completes later this month, so every household with access to a TV signal will have access to CBBC and CBeebies by the end of this month, but some children's programmes will be needlessly duplicated on One and Two until Christmas.

I agree, every Sunday and Monday so far since XF started there has been some kind of disappointment. Of course it won't reach 2010 levels but the decline on last years should be a lot less.

Anyone have the ratings for the breakfast kids shows on ITV1 yesterday, i.e Shake it Up (8:35), Horrid Henry before etc.

In a way its good for BBC1 they are not showing Childrens programme from next year, should boost their ratings for those 2 hours. And then CBBC will get more viewers too cos of children who used to watch on BBC1 now watching on CBBC. So both channels will grow their share.

Do they have the rights to those?

As C14E said in the Broadcast forum thread, BBC One is performing only slightly better in the ratings with their drama and they plugged most of them during the Olympics which claimed 10m+ viewers a night. ITV has not been able to use this exposure so it's not a massive shock that their figures are even lower than BBC One's.

Also, the loss of the Coronation Street lead in at 9pm on a Thursday is hurting them (the whole soap schedule is shocking and needs to be ripped up and radically revamped IMO); Emmerdale is a mess production wise and needs to hire a new executive producer as soon as possible; The X Factor just seeing a natural decline after the unnatural highs of series 7 (but it mustn't fall much further); Dancing On Ice was hurt by Call The Midwife - it wasn't a bad series overall and the loss of TV Burp is hurting them as it was a rare show in that it could bring in a decent if unspectacular audience to the channel. In general ITV programmes either go very high or very low.

On the plus side Tuesday's look stronger with the (albeit weaker) football and the crime drama holding an end up and Wednesday's look interesting with the entertainment hour at 8pm. Sunday's are still exceptionally strong between 8pm and 10pm in the lead up to Christmas and the 90 minute soap blocks hold up Monday and Friday relatively well and the 9pm Monday slot tends to benefit from this to an extent.

They'd have to have the rights to show those titles first and certainly in the case of Toy Story 3, they don't.

C4 showed an absolute ton of premieres earlier in the year so they might be running out of new titles to show now.

I think The Xtra Factor might well have suffered from taking on The X Factor on +1.

Apparently the so called ex-Endemol employee has stated this.


Comedy!

I agree the dramas for both BBC One and Itv1 havent rated well this Autumn. Which is surprising. For many years people generally have said they want more drama, less reality tv. So the major channels inject a lot of new dramas into the schedule. What happens? People dont watch them in large numbers. Maybe a bit too much new drama in too short a period of time though.

Next week's ratings will be more interesting, Strictly can only rise with an extra 40 minutes where it rates highest, although probably not as much as last year (second Saturday was up 1.2m on the previous one, funnily enough to the exact rating X Factor got last night) but should top 9m. Whereas X Factor has another 15 minutes where it rates lowest, so it'll be lucky to remain steady although the year on year drops will now lessen as this is where it started to fall last year.

I'd still argue the key positive for BBC One airing children's TV is its bring a young audience to the channel. Plus, what are they going to replace it with? I'm really hoping it's something new rather than more Cash In The Attic repeats. If that is the case they really should have stuck to CBBC!

Plus, does it really matter if more people are watching on CBBC than BBC One? IMO, they should be pushing BBC One more on CBBC if that is the case and using the springboard to attract more young viewers to the main channel.

Thinking about it, maybe they should try Robin Hood/Merlin/Doctor Who/Sarah Jane Adventure repeats in the slot - programming which appeal to children but also attract a wider dynamic. It will be something different bu it wouldn't completely exclude children from BBC One.

Plus - does it really matter if more people are watching


Fair enough. That wasn't during the Simon Shaps era by any chance was it?

How would that work out? Usually there are less people watching on +1 than Xtra Factor.

I think that is it. I can't remember the last time so much new drama aired over a short period of time. People can't dedicate time to see and try out everything so some shows fall at the wayside from the start (Homefront) and some pick up poorer ratings than expected (I think everyone thought Hunted would take off better than it did).

I think both BBC One and ITV1 have made a mistake in throwing so much new drama into the ring at the same time but thinking about it, what did the two channels have last year which could have a second series? Did they have any choice but throw a lot at the schedule and hope something stuck?

You must not have kids

The X Factor rated lower on +1 last night than it did for last week's judges houses show (420,000 v 380,000).

Good point. Didn't think about that one. Let's put it down to the lateness then. And perhaps facing Match Of The Day?

Yes, there's a history of having lots of new BBC One and ITV1 drama in the autumn, but usually a fair amount of it is well established returning drama, but this year a lot of it is on its first series (or in Monroe's case, stuff limping back for a second series despite barely making an impression the first time). Add in the fact a lot of this first series stuff is very similar to stuff that's gone before (Hunted seems like Spooks with extra violence; Homefront seems like Soldier Soldier with added soap), and it's no wonder lots of people are not enthused.

Xtra Factor was on against X Factor on +1 last year and earlier this year when Xtra was getting 1m viewers so it's recent drop will be down primarily to its later slot.

That makes more sense. It usually manages a million easier if it's on at 9.

Probably the teatime stuff being removed from BBC Two at the same time.


Not more people, more children are watching on CBBC than they were on BBC One, so yes it does matter. The point of making children's programmes is for children to watch them.


No it doesn't matter if more total people are watching a show, and on BBC One the numbers of total people tend to be higher, but it's a good thing if more children are watching, as they do with Blue Peter, for example on CBBC.




I don't know who was in charge.

Teatime? As in the likes of Eggheads etc.?


True. Obviously CBBC has grown because it airs children's programming from dawn until around 6pm. I can't see why one of the main channels (maybe BBC Two rather than One) couldn't do that from the off which would save the BBC airspace but I guess this discussion is for another thread altogether.


Sorry, I'm not sure how that 'Plus...' sentence got left there. Probably because I was going to put a sentence there then moved it.


I'm going to blame him anyway - he was useless.

Simon Shaps. He was a contestant in a special episode of The Apprentice for the Media Guardian TV Festival a few years ago. He was the contestant Lord Sugar, or Sir Alan as he was called in those days, fired for being so bad

That's exactly the intention: general entertainment programming will move from BBC2 to BBC1. [EDIT: not teatime but late afternoon] And it won't all be repeats, although the afternoon programming on BBC2 this autumn has remained in repeats for too long IMO. Two new series start tomorrow, at last.


If I may quote from the BBC Trust's Scheduling of Children's Content: Assessment of Significance:

The number of children watching the BBC’s flagship services at other times of day is actually higher, as children view programmes with the rest of their families. For example, on BBC One there are about seven times more children under 12 watching at 8pm than on average during the afternoon children’s programming block, suggesting that they will not lose their connection with the BBC’s flagship services.

That average audience for the afternoon children's block on BBC1, by the way, is 33,000 in the target 6-12 demo.

Indeed, and also it took several months for it to become available on all platforms, I don't think it was on Sky for a few months. In addition, the criticism of ITV was also because they stopped commissioning new programming, both on ITV1 and CITV, whereas the Beeb were commissioning for both BBC1 and ITV. And it was Simon Shaps' idea, yes.


Sorry to carry this on, then, but there's no need for the BBC to save airspace, the channel itself costs next to nothing, it's the programmes that cost, so there would be no benefit from putting it on BBC1 and BBC2. Indeed it would be worse because then it wouldn't be in the children's section of the EPG. That's why I don't buy the arguments that CBBC should be moved up the EPG, it should be moved up the children's EPG but not the whole EPG, the channel number doesn't matter, the category does.

I don't think bringing children to BBC1 is an issue anyway, they already watch BBC1 for things like Doctor Who and Total Wipeout. When I was young I didn't like Children's ITV but still watched quizzes and variety on primetime ITV. And the Beeb repeat the likes of Total Wipeout on CBBC.

Err, how is Let's Dance an awful show in comparison to Take Me Out? TMO is a show from the gutter so to actually compare both shows and suggest TMO is better is bizarre!