Perhaps they don't anymore, and attempt to use the show just as much as it uses them? Some people may believe anything, but people are an odd bunch - they are not all intelligent.

has anyone in the history of X-Factor ever used the show, more than its used them? Has anyone gone on, got a little bit of exposure, then signed with say an indie label, and put out creatively worthwhile music?

I'm not sure subtle is ever the right word to use - the manipulation has always been clear and a key focus of debate around the show. Especially when people could pin it on Simon Cowell (who was the public face of the "producers" and a good target for people to complain!).

The problem is that they're just redoing the same things over and over again. And really signposting them too obviously. Rylan is a prime example.

I think they really do need to rip up the rulebook. They need a new auditions format (and if I can think of something that might work they should be able to as well!). I'd even get rid of the judges vote (although it has been a huge part of the shows success, tonight confirmed that it has been played out). They need new judges.

The harder thing is trying to change the way the live shows are run. I'd get Flack on the main show - try and lighten the tone a bit. Just little things about the pacing of the live shows as well - so stop having the judges doing those awful introductions of their acts, for example.

I'm sorry but I lack sympathy of this position. The X Factor has been manipulated enough over the years for the contestants to know they're little more than pawns in a wider game. If they take the risk they have to accept the potential downfall as well.

Because people keep doing well out of it. Every year since 2008 they've found at least one act that has done really well for themselves.


Because it's just a TV show? Not really worthy of all the angst.


The manipulation is no secret. Being "fooled" into being entertained probably isn't at the top of most people's concerns outside of a TV forum. Hence why people still watch Top Gear and The Apprentice even though we all really know they're heavily "contrived" (Top Gear in particular).


The point was that it was a low form of entertainment because her life long dreams have been crushed - but that owed nothing to the whole judges vote thing. The public didn't vote for her. She doesn't have some God given right to be there. Even if they overturned the public vote and kept her in, she'd be gone within 2 weeks. In 8 years of the show not once has the winner been in the bottom 2 at any stage - let alone week one. As soon as she was bottom 2, that was when her "life long dream" was crushed. It's an inevitable result of any "elimination" show that most contestants leave disappointed. There were 11 other people who could have been sacrificed for Rylan but they weren't because they actually got some votes.

But, it's the contrived and low rent way it's done is just too obvious for many viewers now. Louis' act that he does very well by the way, with him looking close to tears as he can't decide then makes his decison and changes his mind and Gary calling it a joke and walking off. All done before, viewers see through it now, it's these "controversies" and contempt for the audience that is helping lose the show viewers. When you go the well too many times, you run out of water.

Oh I absolutely agree that it's overdone. The judges vote has been a big part of the show but there's nowhere left to go with it. The public can make some controversial decisions themselves (the public kept Jedward in 2009, for example). And I don't think it always has to be so obvious as it was with Rylan. I remember when Laura White went home (and it ended up being discussed in parliament!) she actually lost out to the better singer on the night.

The problem is that in attempting to entertain, they've run out of stories to do it. And despite the fact that they've overhauled the senior production team in the past couple of years, there don't appear to be many fresh ideas on casting or plots.

Oh I don't know, having the big boss' talk to Louis so obviously caught on camera was a twist no one expected...

The fact that the producers have apparently intervened shows how desperate they really are. Imagine how crushing it would be to get that far, only to be put out by someone who can't sing.

Whilst the X Factor producers may have been laughing at The Voice's ratings earlier in the year, it might lose some of its viewers to The Voice who are fed up with the staged crap that TXF is now showing more and more of!

One storyline that XFactor still hasnt done is that one of the contestants starts going out with a judge during the competition. This is something yet to be done by XFactor but I wouldnt be surprised if they try and make up a fake relationship for the newspapers later this series or next series. Tulisa is single after all and this kind of storyline would interest the media.

I would say for ITV...Mission Accomplished (but it's a risk)

Social media (including our forums here) exploded. Former contestants are lining up to do 'tell all' stories. The tabloids might start taking notice.

They even staged a fix when 'mystery producer' in full camera view comes on to tell Louis what to do.

A massive risk for them in that, it may turn more off than on. But at least ITV has finally come out and admitted XF is no longer a singer contest (like us sensible folks knew years ago!)

They've been saying it isn't only a singing contest since The Voice came on the scene.

Well, yes, I guess it is a new take on it. Although they've speculated about this in the past (although it was always "sources" saying Simon was seen "deep in conversation" with "top boss Richard Holloway"!).


The producers always intervene. It's just that this is the first time in a few years that Mr Holloway has been spotted. In the early years there was no break between the result and the sing off. And on many occasion Simon could be seen deep in conversation with the very same man. Albeit never quite as blatantly as this year. And I'm not sure the press ever actually reported on it.


If Caroline auditioned for The Voice they'd probably frame her as the act that everyone thinks is going to go through but doesn't - she's good looking, has some pedigree, sings well but not brilliantly. Just about every episode had one of those. Lets not pretend that's any less contrived. It's just fresher!


They had a host allegedly banging a contestant (Kate Thornton and Shayne Ward in 2005 - not true, they both emphatically state!). In the US, rival networks tried to take down Idol by alleging Paula had an affair with one contestant (it probably helped the show more than anything). But yes, I guess that is one they haven't tried yet.

I must have missed the bit where they stopped. The ratings might be down but they're not low enough for that yet.

I've always felt that as it is called 'The X Factor', it should be about a whole package. Simon himself seemed to change the interpretation when it suited however.

Coverage has been fairly low key compared to other years

I think TXF has a shelf life and maybe it will end in its tenth year if ratings show a continued decline. Yet for now it's still healthy and I know a lot of fans and don't mind the singing parts of it, being an ex karaoke singer myself.
The main thing that gets me is the way it's hyped up by the redtops as some kind of major piece of news and the OTT behaviour of some of the contestants. However, compared with the horrible latter series of BB on Channel 4, TXF is tame.

He was so disgusted he nearly didn't turn up for Xtra Factor

She already been on a talent contest finished 3rd in the second series of Fame Academy. [at least according to other threads on Digital Spy]

Clearly, Dylan was always going to go though, however how much controversy will this actually deliver. Recent years has seen declining viewing figures because of some old same old.

2 key things to me, will the tabloids really go against the X factor [fiX Factor] , or just play the game.

Secondly what will viewing figures be like next week, then we will know if mission accomplished (as mentioned above).

nearly didnt turn up on The Xtra Factor, oh well now I know his rage has reached Hulk like proportion.

One big difference with The Voice is that there is no joke acts and all the contestants can sing. The fact that TXF has to keep on making its own headlines is desperate. It should have people watching for the amazing talent on show, not the bitchiness of the judges and to watch the 'reality-show-like' style the show has become.


If it is meant to be about the whole package, then they should learn how to write their own songs or learn to play an instrument or learn and perform a dance routine.

Not worth getting our knickers in a twist for this programme. It's given ITV a good return over the years. It's produced some stars, it's churned out a lot of singers we've forgotten about - I still enjoy the show, yes it's staged but who cares? Carolynne wasn't going to win it anyway, and the contestants know what they are letting themselves in for.

do you mean in some sort of School or Academy type setting? some sort of Academy for Fame? a Fame Academy if you will?

Dont know where I got that idea from

There have been a couple of people that have had some degree of critical success off the back of The X Factor. Rebecca Ferguson is the obvious one. Its all been rather low key but her album got good reviews and sold well so its not impossible to do it. At this stage I think if a contestant is smart about it then there's no reason why they wouldn't be able to use The X Factor as a launch pad for a smaller, quieter career. The hysteria surrounding the show has died down but you're still exposed to enough people every week to be able to get your foot in the door at record companies.

The interesting question about The X Factor, and pretty much every talent show at this point, is what exactly are the contestants hoping to get from it? When you look at the sheer number of finalists that have appeared on all of these shows only a tiny, tiny minority ever seem to get anything from it so do all of these people audition because they think they can be the exception that bucks the trend or is it purely about having their 15 minutes? Not to bring up the Big Brother/X Factor comparison again but to some degree this is the same problem that Big Brother had and to some extent still has – why are people still applying to be on the show?

She came last in the voting. If she didn't go tonight it would have been in two or three weeks' time.

At least this way, from their POV, they've engineered a bit of controversy at a time when people are complaining about the show lacking spark and big characters.

And I'm not ashamed to admit it's that stuff that for me makes XF great television. And as far as social media is concerned it absolutely worked - Twitter was on fire tonight.

The only thing I would say is that maybe it was too blatant tonight and that will rub a lot of people up the wrong way.

I noticed the ITV2 twitter account tweeted about the producer speaking to Louis on camera but it was deleted soon after.


That implication was there long before The Voice came along. I agree they've been more open about it in an attempt to differentiate themselves but Jedward et al prove that it hasn't just been a 'singing' contest in years (if ever).