That's what the forum is for, airing differences.

Matt di Angelo was visibly counting beats during his advanced quickstep. For that he was told off. The following Saturday he ceased counting. Then came the quarter-final. Matt faltered in one step then lost touch with the rhythmic engine altogether. Unable to get back in, he fell into foxtrot meltdown then samba confusion.

It has to be hair-raising for a beginner to make a debut in front of 8 million viewers, and partnering world champion Iveta as well. If this 73yo wanted to mime a song for assurance like whistling in the dark, that cannot be worse than conking out in meltdown. After 90 seconds of dance Johnny held Iveta in a stylish pose rock-solid for 5 seconds. He moved his mouth by choice during dancing. When standing in front of judges he made not one twitch, staying cool under fire.

Indeed. However none of that is the topic of this thread. Johnny was jerky in his movements during the dance itself, and it was perfectly obviously that which Craig was referring to. Not offensive, a clear physical comparative descriptor.

I have a neurological condition which causes involuntary movements (and makes it nearly impossible to type, damn it!)

I wasn't at all upset by Craig's comment, I just took it as Craig being Craig. He wasn't poking fun at people with movement disorders, he was pointing out the limits of Johnny's dancing.

It's nice that people care though. The public attitude to disabled people has changed hugely in the last twenty years, and everywhere I go I am overwhelmed by the way people go out of their way to help me.

I agree, that's exactly how it came across to me and not as an intended insult.

I went to bed last night Terry too tired to post straight , now I think you can see that people who do have neurological problems have come on here and so far none of them has been offended at all

Every human being Terry deserves respect , but just because you have a neurological condition absolutely does not mean you cannot recognise an insult aimed at you and also that you cannot defend yourself

I think you are confusing people with learning difficulties who do need protection and help to understand the world

Those who have a neurological condition , for example MS have all their wits about them, will use their wits to stand up for themselves and retain all the dignity and respect that they are able to keep

I think you need to give such people more credit for being able to fight their own battles

Craig was not talking of people with learning difficulties who may need to be looked after and protected but fully functioning capable twitchy human beings who it appears are grateful he got his terminology right and understand exactly what he meant by critiquing the twitchy movements he thought Johnny did

I have reluctantly decided not to talk about this incredibly emotive subject any further, I really don't want to risk my words being misinterpreted again to imply something that was never intended.

In fairness Craig did not say Central nervous system disorders and as such you have mixed up a brain disorder Altzheimers which does not cause people, on the whole, to twitch, with other neurological disorders that do cause people to twitch.

Maybe that is why people took offence because they did not appreciate that there was a difference, and as such used as Craig did it, was a descriptor of a type of movement and not a comment on Johnny's brain capacity

I think this is where the indignation has come from, lack of understanding by what is meant by a neurological condition ie a person who twitches but retains all their mental capacity whist twitching .

Those described as having brain disorders such as Altzheimers, or learning problems do have problems with their mental capacity but on the whole do not twitch.

The problem is of course some twitching for example Parkinsons, arises from lack of dopamine in the brain but this still does not mean that a person with Parkinson's has anything wrong with their mental capacity.

Craig's job on the panel is to be the pantomime baddy , whether he should have said it is up for debate but the actual words themselves described a way of movement and that is it as far as I am concerned

I'm not often offended by stuff like this however it did kind of shock me and was not really appropriate... We all get it wrong sometimes though and I still love Craig

I don't mind Craig being harsh sometimes. But his comments to Johnny made me feel very uncomfortable. I felt so sorry for Johnny Ball. Showing little bit of respect to elders wouldn't go a miss i thought.

[quote=shefair;61561207]In fairness Craig did not say Central nervous system disorders and as such you have mixed up a brain disorder Altzheimers which does not cause people, on the whole, to twitch, with other neurological disorders that do cause people to twitch.

Check again shefair. "it also looked like you had some sort of disorder darling of the central nervous system ..... it was a series of jolts and jerky sort of spasms all the way through"

Then read up on myoclonus in Alzheimer's.

I made no reference to mental capacity nor did Craig.

Craig is my favourite judge by a mile, but I though he was too rude in that comment.

Congratulations to runninglass for accuracy of quotation.

Accuracy of movement is not so easy. An inexperienced latin dancer with no ballet or Pilates training and with little core strength, transfers bodyweight from one foot to another with this momentum constantly triggering overshoot, requiring a compensatory jolt or jerk, anything other than falling over. It is the same for unskilled horse riders. Latin movements are so fast (like receiving 100-mph serve at Wimbledon? ) that reactions need to come spontaneously from the body, not waiting for cerebral calculation followed by commands to the body. One instability leads to another, this is the root of jerkiness.

Iveta being the lithe world champion can of course flow with effortless economy of movement. In the whole world it would take Yulia the latin world champion to out-supple Iveta.

Sure Johnny is old with creaky joints. He is not as fast as Iveta, nor as smooth as Zoe, but he was invited to dance as himself against younger persons. Widdy who avoided displaying jolts and jerks by sitting on the floor and not moving at all, was later invited by Dr Craig the Director to join the Strictly Tour to boost ticket sales.

If posters in this forum danced side by side Iveta, how many will be diagnosed by Dr Craig as having?

"some sort of disorder darling of the central nervous system ..... it was a series of jolts and jerky sort of spasms all the way through"

[quote=runninglass;61564151]
I didn't hear "central "so apologies if that is what Craig said, but then what are you offended about in Craig's comments if you are not worried by thinking he was alluding to mental capacity?

and are you ,really, thinking that Craig was saying that Johhny had stage 7 Alzheimer disease , which is end stage terminal Altzheimers , the stage when Alzheimers is responsible for twitching and patients loosing control of their limbs???

I will give you plenty of patents with early Altzheimers twitch but not due to their Altzheimers.

I have no idea what Craig had in his head but he speaks before he thinks and that is what lands him in it .I cant be offended on others behalf but I do think it was a stupid childish thoughtless thing to say to anyone .Surely " you tend to be a bit jerky on certain movements " woud have done without trying to be clever .
Whatever about insulting those with a neurological disorder I thought it was very hurtful to Johnny himself , no need for smart aleky trying to be oh so clever criticism IMO

[quote=shefair;61566427]
Shefair I have read your response to my post and find it incredulous that you now introduce the phrase "end stage terminal Alzheimer's".

We keep hearing how Craig's not really like this backstage... Just once, for a few minutes together, I'd love to see the backstage version on the panel. Would the sun fall from the sky? Hell freeze over? C'mon Craig, show us your dimples.

Any hoo, my real reason for this last post to the thread is to say thank you and big respect to everyone who has taken part in it. On the face of it, it's a far more volatile topic than why did Lisa get her points, or is Brendan or is Victoria disappointed in the other, etc, etc. But this thread has been informative and generous right the way through. Credit to us

yes, whilst I do admire Craigs brutal honestly he sometimes over steps the mark and this was one of those times - uncalled for comment

[quote=runninglass;61567371]
bangs head against wall

to quote you, look it up. I am too bored of this now,

suffice to say , as I said quite clearly ONLY in end stage Altzheimers does Alzheimers cause people to twitch

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt thinking you were confused


I wont post again since this is going no where and have learnt my lesson, that what I get for giving people the benefit of the doubt

and now I spoilt it by being snappy sorry, I was trying to be helpful but really can't be bothered any more it is simple though to my mind:

those who twitch due to a neurological condition 99% of the time will have no mental capacity problems

and so can choose to stand up for themselves if they want

I thought people were confused but apparently I was wrong and everything I say is worth getting offended about

Nah, nah, don't worry! We can all be snappy. But on this thread, the wee snaps have been just that. No massive meltdowns. That's what counts.

It's personal to a lot of us and that makes it risky but I don't think there's been anyone shit stirring or show boating. Gawd, I hardly know where I am!!

Please consider what this will do to the central nervous system.

As if we aren't all in padded cells... C'mon, own up

Well, if I may add my 2 pence worth, I think this is all just typical Craig, darling. Thoughtless, really. Part of my disability is nerve damage which occasionaly makes me twitch or jump, but I wasn't offended on behalf of myself.

I was however offended that Craig should be so harsh to a nice, gentle man who is my Dad's age, who frankly at 74 is doing really well, especially in his first week.

I know what Craig's like, but I did think that was a thoughtless and quite cruel thing to say. Not because I have neurological damage though.

Right at the heart of it, to my mind. It made me gasp. And I really didn't mean to be patronising to people with Central Nervous System disorders.

PS is your name rhyming slang???