Just to add that no one is a ringer or if anyone remembers the great Paul Newman film, a hustler.

Excellent dancer too!

Trained at White Lodge (Royal Ballet School)

Why don't the producers just stack up the show one year with supposed 'ringers' - then we'd see how much stage school training, musical performance etc. actually counts when it comes to ballroom?

John Partridge is already ideally qualified as he's not only an accomplished stage dancer but must be in the minority of ex-Easties cast members who's not done it.

Add in Barrowman, someone like Ben Shepherd (who is one of the few morning telly hosts who's not done it - I believe he has a degree in dance), Ruthie Henshall (just so everyone's got someone to moan about)...the list goes on.

I'd love that, but a lot of people would hate it, and I wouldn't want them to do it every year - as Alli said earlier, it's nice to see the celebs' "journey" (ahhh shoot me, I used the j word). But it would be fun to see them do it once. But not with John Barrowman - much as I love him as Captain Jack, he does come across as smug and insufferable when he's being himself.

Dani went to Redroofs Theatre School in Maidenhead,I only know this because my daughter is a huge fan and wanted to go there because Dani did, it has a good dance department but I'm not sure how involved in that Dani was I suspect she was more drama /singing related.
Sorry if this has been mentioned already

Is that the one with Robert Redford and the jaws guy about the betting con.

About Denise, it's not as if she came first, I have to say. She came fourth or something? For some one with VAST experience and VAST advantages, well, it didn't exactly pay off... We shall see, my friends.

I think what's winding a lot of people up about Denise is the attitude she and the show are taking - and that (the attitude) really baffles me. Insisting that she spent most of Chicago "sitting in a chair" - was it meant to be funny? Saying she had dance lessons at drama school but that it was "years and years ago" wasn't very endearing, either. (I should add during all this that I've no problem with her myself.)

With Kimberley they mentioned stuff like her tapdance number in Shrek but pointed out (correctly) that ballroom is totally different - and that's fine, they're not going to be able to get 14 celebrities who start off totally equally, she has some advantages but she has not had training in this type of dance. Compare their opening statements on the launch show VTs:

Kimberley: "I think people will definitely assume that I should be able to dance."
Denise: "People think I'm a dancer, which I'm really not."

So I think the show and its attitude has to take some of the blame for the stick Denise is getting. It completely baffles me why their approach seems to be "Denise has never been trained at all!!" rather than "Denise has some dance training but not in ballroom and latin" - which they are doing with Kimberley.

I think what can be confusing is knowing that someone went to some kind of performing arts school, but most students will want to be one thing more than another e.g. actor, singer, dancer.

In my eyes neither Denise and Kimberley originally wanted to be dancers, but both will have done some dance training as part of their education. My guess is that Dani wanted to be an actress (she was so young when she started playing Tracy Beaker, so who knows for sure). but she too will have done some dance training as part of her education.

All will have danced on stage at some point, but that doesn't make them professional dancers.

That's how I look it it now.

I know it's an old interview from 2001 but I suppose the difference would be that back in 2001 she wsa trying to pursuade people she could actually dance and fast forward to 2012 and she is trying to pursuade people she actually can't.

Has Sid also appeared in West End Musicals - or for that matter any of the others you mention?

Oh God! I would hate that! Hate it! What's the point? You might as well watch Come Dancing.

As Cat said, it IS about the dreaded journey. It's about the finding confidence and joy on the dance floor. It's not really about the dancing for me, it could be anything, I love Gareth Malone's programmes about learning to sing too. It's about watching someone who never realised they were good at something practicing, getting better at something, learning to love it and passing that joy onto me, the viewer.

I've never understood why TV talent show bods insist on trying to play down a contestant's previous experience. It's especially ridiculous now, in the age of the internet, when all anyone needs to do to find out a celeb's previous performance history is to go online and google them!

Trying to play down a contestant's previous experience does more harm than good to the contestant. Better to just be open from the beginning. The public may be hacked off to begin with, but they often do get over it once they get to 'know' the contestant and see them perform - Denise's husband being a case in point. Being open from the outset about being a professional performer didn't damage his chances in ADWD.

I think it's the response that hardens attitudes towards those with previous experience or training. Denise has made the mistake of trying to deny she has any experience or training, when we all know she has. Kimberley, like St Jill of Halfpenny never denied it, they just said they weren't professionals, and that is received better.

I don't like Denise as a contestant, and it is irrational to a degree because I know others have training and experience in that area too. The difference is I don't like being taken for a fool by her - I wish she'd just be more honest.

.......and she's dancing with James, so I'm bound to dislike her!

The only point to such an exercise would be like having an Olympics specifically aimed at competitors who took performance-enhancing drugs - they are not competing on a level playing field with clean athletes, but there's no way sport will ever be completely clean, so why not give them the option of seeing just what they can do against other athletes in the same position?

I certainly wasn't advocating this as a good approach. As you correctly point out, the joy of SCD - and indeed the joy of the Olympics - is seeing people push themselves to new heights of physical achievement. Having a line-up seething with thinly veiled competitive rancour would make it a uniquely joyless and mechanical experience. It wouldn't be nearly as entertaining as Come Dancing.

No but Sid has appeared in a film called last tango in Walford true.

No I don't think he was ever been on the West End but he DID go to stage school and for all we know had 6 years dance training and may well have taken a dance class every week for many years. Even in these years of easy access to information we just don't know how much all of the celebrities have had in the way of training and experience.

I just think all this being indignant about Denise in particular because she does have some experience is a bit thick when others are not held to the same account.

Turns out,I looked up Dani and it did not appear she went to stage school but on here someone even knows which stage school she went to.

Why not just enjoy the good level of dancig we have at this early stage, BUT part of my problem with Jason last year was he did not improve and I would hope to see each celeb going on some sort of J word .

"For all we know" is a major problem for me. Paraphrased for all we know actually means we don't know - but we do suspect. and some confuse suspicion, unsupported by evidence, equates to fact.

We don't know for a fact that Sid and other stage school graduates have taken a dance class every week for many years - but they might have done; so let's put them into the experienced camp. Although google throws up nothing to suggest that Danni went to stage school, some swear that she did (and thus must have taken dance classes) Danni, on suspicion alone, take your place in the experienced corner. Lisa trained at the Oldham Theatre Workshop (hardly stage school) and, as far as I can see, her credits have nothing to do with dance and everything to do with acting: but... Lisa not everyone understands the difference between stage school and a workshop: even one that has produced the illustrious names of Sarah Lancashire and Anna Friel. So no benefit of the doubt for you - off you go to join your experienced colleagues.

Not many true inexperienced amateurs left but fortunately my picks for this season are untainted by the stage school brush. GO GO GO Michael and Louis: but.... hang on a minute Louis is a gymnast so he's bound to be supple and agile - not fair - and I swear I saw Michael doing a jig when he led England to the Ashes.

Off to the experienced corner for them. Not many left deserving of my support except perhaps Johnny Ball but ... when I was just a nipper I, along with other Johnny enthusiasts espied him at Chester Zoo. With youthful eagerness and with pens and autographs books at the ready we clamoured for his signature. He obliged but with such ill grace nothing would induce me to spend good money voting for him.

So where do I go from here - come out of the corner Louis, Michael and Lisa - you've got my support.

no I am sorry I dont know what point you are making

of course Loius is a gymnast and Matt and Gabby had a lot of stick for this being an unfair advantage but this year Loius does not appear to have any stick when in fairness judging by medals he is a much better gymnast..

I don't have a particular favourite this year, actually I really don't there are about 6/7 that I want to see progress and don't have an order for those. So I am not trying to put forward a favourite of mine by outing a ringer.

I just think that the stick Denise is getting for having danced before is ridiculous considering our lack of knowledge of others dancing experience and the fact that we do know others have some.

The point I am making is that you are making a number of assumptions without any supporting evidence.

Oh right, no I don't know exactly how much dance experience any of them have, but other than the producers on the show, and each celebrity themselves, neither does any poster on this forum so why pick out 1 person in particular for their dance experience.

If you mean I have constructed a theory and am inventing things to support my theory and ignoring things that don't fit in with my theory, isn't that exactly what I am saying in the whole thread

badly apparently

I don't think you put the point badly. To the contrary. I don't base my opinions on what newspapers, Chris Evans or pre decided favouritism tells me I should think. I doubt if many people do.

Just out of interest, when you saw Johnny Ball at Chester Zoo, was he making a public appearance or was he on a private day out with his family?

I certainly am.

My daughters an obsessive fan what can I say...takes after her old mum


Refers again to obsessive daughter,it was also on the Redroofs website as they are very proud of her as an ex pupil(no idea if its been removed recently as haven't been on there since daughter finally stopped nagging about going there on realisation no more money was to be had out of poor old mum-edit to add here it is http://www.redroofs.co.uk/welcome/alumni.aspx)Even if you go to stage school yes you may have lessons in dance it doesn't mean you were any good at them, so long as you are good in at least two of the disciplines and parents keep paying out they are unlikely to throw you out. I like Dani (yup brainwashed by daughter) and I like to see people who are able to dance. As I think Buddy said earlier the only time I have ever thought bloody ringer was on DWTS with Mya..just give me good dancing not the god awfulness of Widdecombe and Sargeant

poor John Sargeant for ever unfairly labelled with that awful women

He did try so much that he lost 2 stone, he produced a lovely waltz but other than that wasn't really very good , but he wasn't worse than Brain Capron, Kate Garroway, or half a dozen others.

He ought to be in that group and that woman in a club entirely alone one that did not want to dance , disdained and disapproved of dances and wanted to make her own rules about what was or was not allowed in a dance

It was a special highlight for me when she flashed those canary yellow pants for all to see , smug b**ch

I feel John needs to be rehabilitated and never mentioned in the same breath as that woman