I'm very happy with Syed tonight - he's faced it all, and said some of his piece. He's hurting but real and honest

I'm oddly pleased with Zainab, she's had to face her own wrongness over Syed, over Tam, and yes over Mas too.

Tambo is a grown up.

Mas is struggling and doing things wrong, but he's hurting too.

Second thoughts. No, Zainab hasn't really learned.

Nearly omnibus time. Cannot wait to see the whole week at once

I might regret staying up til 2am later today though

Grrrr just need to rant. Someone put a comment on a YT upload of todays EE and wrote "Stop this homosexual shit please- is this the best storyline ee can drag on?"

I replied with "Homosexual shit!? Are you for real??? I am glad gay couples are finally getting the screentime/storylines as straight couples!!! We are in the 21st century and finally the soaps showing real couples from all walks of life!! Dont be so bigoted"

I could have been harsher....dont they know how long we have fought and wanted to have same sex couples being shown in a soap? How it is still an ongoing battle to depict all sorts of couples, gay, straight, white,black whatever just as like in real life!>>>>>grrr it made me so mad!

Hello!! Gah, just watched the ep - riveting! That Masood stuff - wow. I loved that the family dynamics were addressed; and Chryed! Adorable reassuring scene when Syed returned and ooooh, a first dance (for about 5 seconds but hey )

I need to catch up elsewhere, plus maybe rewatch again, but great posts from Starfish and Lovesy

Mas, kind and 'real' with Syed here. He's seen Syed kiss Danny and he's trying to help.

Sorry, I just don't want this blanket 'oh mas has always hated Syed' to cloud the truth.

Zainab making me laugh AGAIN at the stag do.

I totally agree. Much of what has been shown this week and over the preceding weeks, for Syed and now Mas, has been a mess of character obfuscation in the name of cheap drama.

I am doing all I can to hang on to the characters I remember for the sake of my sanity.

Hello gorgeous dot thing

I can see them in character, myself. I'm just determined to remember what we've been shown, and not see it in a simple way. Because it isn't fair on all the characters. Including Syed.

Syed has redeemed himself a lot. But what he did, well, it cheesed me off MASSIVELY, but can see it as a final blow out thing now, just.

A last crashy burny thing, with added honesty.

Just don't want to think of the spoilers because then I want to bloody chuck something.

Syed covering for himself by attacking Mas ain't making me happy, mind. I've got a banana in my hand. Be scared...

No, I can't watch it. Making me angry and upset.

Good morning

Enjoyed that episode. Always try and watch it before I come on here and then I find I missed their first dance. I thought it was strange you tube only went for 26 minutes. Will have to catch it again later with another channel:sleep:

So glad Syed didn't arrive as Chroxy were fooling around. I had expectations that Roxy would attack Syed. So it was good to have just the two of them. Christian was very understanding and that is what Syed needed.

So when I go to Paris one day I would never think to pack sarongs. That is one honeymoon I would like to watch

I've sort of been lurking but am falling asleep. And I've just seen the time!

So WHAT a week. Absolute Rollercoaster. But I am very thankful that for me at least, I'm left in a good place.

So, goodnight all and Love is Prevailing......xxx....:yawn::sleep:

BIB: Same here. I was furious and disappointed with him last night but he totally redeemed himself tonight. He held his hands up, apologised, and offered what he could to put it right. You can't ask any more of him than that. And I liked that he pointed out that it wasn't all down to him, that the restaurant was in a mess before he got involved. He took his fair share of the blame but no more than that, he refused to be a martyr and a scapegoat for all the family's problems, which he has done in the past and which ultimately led to this whole situation happening in the first place. I wish the scene with Masood could have been longer, I felt there was a lot still to be said there by both of them but maybe we'll get that next week.

This is probably a very unpopular opinion but the Zainab/Masood scenes bored me I can't fault the acting but it felt like I'd seen it a thousand times before. How many times are they going to break up and get back together before they actually sort themselves out and move forward?

Having said that, maybe I just found the Z/M scenes boring because I was missing Chryed, who were yet again little more than extras in what was still supposed to be their big day. The scenes we did get were brilliant though The scene in the flat was beautiful, really moving and intimate. It reminded me a bit of CCC, Syed vulnerable and honest, Christian gentle and reassuring...Syed's "partner, friend, rock". Loved it so much! I thought the "reception" at the AB, with the bailiffs looking on was a bit weird. I guess they were going for the "so unromantic it's romantic" angle, which is exactly what I wanted Chryed's wedding to be, but it felt like they were trying too hard to make it unromantic so it didn't really work for me. I much preferred the unashamed romance and cheesiness of Pete's wedding episode. But I did love the dance (my first thought was for Katrina btw, so glad you got your wish) and the kiss outside Would have been nice to see just one scene of them alone together before they went on honeymoon, reflecting on the day and it sinking in that they're actually married now, but we've had about six months screentime in the space of a week so that would just be greedy

I'm dreading what's to come when the boys return from honeymoon but I'm trying to put that to the back of my mind and just think happy thoughts of them enjoying their honeymoon. Somehow I don't think Syed will come back from this one without consummating the marriage

You made me laugh JN I think you're right.

I'm feeling much happier after that ep. And Syed did stand his ground, and honestly this time.

It's all I've wanted from Syed, and he's done it more than once, to face up.

I know it's hard to do, but it's so important, and we all have to do it.

Christian was totally there for him, absolutely his rock.

He's going to consummate it all over the honeymoon suite, JN.

Thanks to my sister selfishly having a birthday and wanting to sit up chatting, I didn't get to see the ep until 1am.
I have now watched it twice and still can't take it all in.
But, wow, what an episode, and what a brilliant week on EE.
I haven't had time to catch up with the thread, but I'm assuming the hugging and dancing and kissing probably went down well.
Nitin and Nina were amazing. And I'm so glad our boys can go off and enjoy their honeymoon. Calling all fic writers! *coughsmutcough*
I don't really have anything more coherent to say - because there's so much to think about, but also because it's stupid o'clock in the morning.
I just wanted to make my presence felt in this wonderful place as Chryed go off on their honeymoon. I still can't quite believe I'm typing that.

Hmmm... that seems a lot like a request. Perhaps I'll see what I can do as time permits.

Hi Rhumba I think you took my bit in bold a little out of context, or else I didn't explain it/cover it very well. BIB - I totally agree, in the sentence before the one you bolded in my post, I said that Zainab had treated Masood appallingly, i wasn't excusing her in this, a lot of it is about the way the two of them work/don't work together, which is why I put that sentence in there, directly before the comments I made about Masood. Masood feeling jealous and resentful of Syed from when he was born, this is obviously to do with his relationship with Zainab, not about Syed at all, who was obviously a tiny baby then. The point I was trying to make was that we've seen Zainab very low, seen her have very little respect for herself, and realise some of the mistakes she has made. I agree, not all, not by a long way. She is damaged. We saw all this in particular during the aftermath of the Yusef stuff, her sense of self and esteem at rock bottom.

I've never got that Masood has recognised his own failings separately. I don't know, maybe I'm forgetting something? The closest I can remember is that he has recognised and spoken about how he has gone along with Zainab too many times, that he has let her be the way she is, encouraged her even, but again, this is more about Zainab, and still not really about him. I think he has failings that aren't just to do with Zainab, that are to do with his own psychological make-up. He always comes across like a martyr to me, full of his own self-importance. He judges his family's mistakes (and they have made many I know, and treated him horrendously at times too), judges them as people, as if from some high, righteous standard that he has. When his own mistakes have been monumental too.

Of course Mas isn't Yusef. I'm sure it was never his intention to hurt anyone, Syed or Zainab, he has been incredibly hurt by them himself. But even, when as you say, he has shown care and emotion for Syed, and for Zainab too, to me it still seems to come from a place, where it is on his terms, where it is about his 'higher' position in the family, about how he feels about himself as head of that family. I'm not saying he didn't genuinely feel concern and emotion to them, to him he did, but it always seems in relation to him, how it affects him, rather than real, unconditional, love and concern. I'm not sure if I'm explaining this very well. Yes, he has shown trust towards Syed, but then it always comes across to me like, 'look at me, the big man, I'm going to place my trust in you, look how good I am to do this, now don't let me down.'

Syed has to take reponsibility for his own actions, his own behaviour, and not blame others, he was dishonest, let others think they were responsible, tried to get out of it, there were no excuses for that. He did that last night I felt. At some point I would like to see Masood genuinely take reponsibility for his own failings and actions that have affected others too, to show some fundamental humility and not seem so pious. I know he apologised in the AB for what he said to Syed, the way he treated him regarding his sexuality, but this is so much more than just about Syed's choices and his sexuality.

We can understand why Syed is the way he is, but not excuse him. We understand how the way his parents have treated him, his own personality and how he feels about himself has led to this. At the same time we can understand that how Zainab has treated Masood has affected him too, has played a big part. But we cannot excuse him either, he is his own man, responsible for his own mistakes. Syed has been the one at fault in this situation of course, and Zainab to a lesser degree. Masood was not in the wrong here. But there are greater underlying issues that have led them all to this point, even if it was Syed's conscious actions that caused this current crisis, which he knows and has accepted responsibility for, but for no more than he should.

Great post JN

BIB - Couldn't agree more, and I felt this was so very important.

As to the Masood/Zainab scenes, I did feel some of what you were saying, going over all the Yusef stuff again. But I do hope it is because this time they are going to be exploring Masoods part in the dynamics more. A lot of it last year was about Zainab, and Masood in relation to Zainab, with Masood hardly featuring at times. It is all setting up to be more about Masood this time. His relationship with Syed etc.. Even the fact that AJ is around, part of Masoods history, a way of reflecting on him. Maybe they can move forward after that. Otherwise I agree it is very same old, same old, and it does feel like that a bit at the moment.

I loved the Chryed cuddle so much, it was lovely. I liked that Syed was reiterating, reflecting on what his father his said to him, calling him a liar, a cheat. Which of course he had been, Syed was facing up to that, accepting responsibility for it. But then the 'who would be landed' comment that Syed made, which I think came directly from Masoods bitter and resentful comment to Syed about coming between his parents and making them miserable, and telling him to go home and make his own husband miserable (paraphrasing here). This was the flip side of how Masood had unfairly treated Syed, how he had made him feel growing up that had helped lead Syed to this crisis point. Syed's esteem issues, still fearing it to be true, that he was bad news, that he is responsible for everyone's problems, that he can never be good enough, that he will always mess up, that he doesn't deserve anyone. But Christian wanted him, accepted him, loved him still. This is what Syed needed so much, these two things, these two sides of the coin. On the one side, acceptance, reassurance, unconditional love and genuine faith in him as a person, a good person, no matter what mistakes he has made because Christian understands what led him there. But then the other side, not exonerating him, excusing him. He did do wrong and needed to take responsibility and not run away, not let others take the fall, not make excuses. I loved how Christian gently and caringly guided Syed here. Syed knew, he took that step, he accepted responsibilty, he grew up, off his own back. But the pain of the flip side of the coin hurt deeply, made him so vulnerable and scared. He said he didn't know what to do now, and Christian gently guided him. Told him to think of others, of Tam. Syed nodded with true conviction at this. I love that Christian went with Syed to see Tam, reassuring him in an emotional way, while Syed took the steps he needed to.

I think Tam was the wise one as always. he seems able to take a step back from the situation, even though it must hurt him emotionally too, he can see it for what it is, almost detach himself in an intellectual way. He knows what his parents are like. I don't feel he resents/blames Syed at all now for being Zainab's favourite, he can see it was Zainab/Masoods doing. I think he sees Syed as a kindred within the dysfunctional family ultimately created by his parents. Although they were treated completely differently, by different parents, there is a a uniformity of sorts there, and a solidarity. I think also, between his parents, the way they have treated each other, he can see a uniformity. I think he was great tonight, he wasn't accepting of what Syed did, but he was accepting and understanding of the situation, despite his own hurt he must have felt.

BIB Definitely Happy consummating marriage thoughts

PS I was rereading your kitchen scene again the other day.

PPS Did you get my fanfest thing OK?

Morning all.

I have so much to say about the eps on Thurs and Fri but id only ramble for a while and you'd probably not finish it. So i'll keep it short.

I thought last night went some way in redeeming Syed. Thursday ep was a complete come down from Tuesday and it completely wrecked what PL has tried to achieve with ee first CP. Syed walking out on Christian was wrong and everyone has already put their thoughts down and i dont have anything to add but thankfully when the PO spoilers and Thursday ep was bringing this thread to the egde of giving up, last night redeemed ee in my eyes.

I loved the first dance and a longer kiss but im not sure i agree with Chryed going off on honeymoon when all around them is falling apart. But that will only add to the drama when they return on Monday and find Zainab and Kamil have left. Where was Yasmin in this all though? Where will she stay when they are away?

Looking at next weeks spoilers it appears Masood tries to reach out to Syed and whilst im glad that they may reach a resolution soon and before Chryed leave, i cant help feeling its a bit rushed and that we may not get the talks between father and son we really want. After all we only have potentially 4 more weeks of Chryed. Why couldnt we have had this fallout and talks earlier. I feel short changed a bit, although i did enjoy the fight last night as everything Masood said was what we always felt and im sure deep down Syed knew about his resentment. But to hear it must have hurt. He looked so broken when talking to Christian and he needed a hug from his superman.

So i had my last doctors appointment yesterday and baby is still breech, which will only make the birth more difficult if he insists on staying that way. Midwife may try manipulating him before then but i'll have to wait until closer to my due date or until i go into labour. Its 19 days until im due so hopefully he'll move into the proper postion before then.

I agree with pretty much all of this, and the bits I'm mmm about are perhaps a matter of a slightly different 'take'.

For example I don't see Masood as overbearing, except 'now and again' when he gets it wrong. I don't see Mas as 'controlling' except now and again, either. it's a 'family joke' that he does what Zainab tells him to do.

Also I don't see Mas' love for Syed as completely self reflective either. I think Mas does LOVE, although he's a human being too and has his own demons and issues.

You are quite right that we've never seen him properly confront his 'issues' in his family.

But we haven't really seen that from Zainab either, well, we've seen a hell of a lot from her, but she takes money from TAM's box and tries to convince Mas to forgive Syed, when she should be just mending her relationship with her husband. And Syed had to face himself yesterday.

Last para, absolutely, we can UNDERSTAND, but not excuse any of the behaviour from the family that has been negative and destructive.

And that includes Masood. He's REACTING, as pretty much always.

Hey I know it's the fanfest thing today, I'm going out now but I should be back early evening so I'll post my pressie then. Enjoy your day everyone x

I'll echo those thoughts. Hope everyone has a good day and we have plenty of stories later on.

Morning

Lovesy I've just read your posts and they're terrific! One thing that never ceases to amaze me is how selective the writers can be when referencing back stories, no doubt all done to lead the audience down whichever the chosen garden path might be. Right now the chosen one is to make Syed the source of all the family troubles and ills, and to do this the writers have conveniently left out an awful lot in the conversations and arguments that have ensued.

Masood seems unable to see, let alone accept, his own part in the make up of Syed's personality or failings because to do that means he has to take a look at himself and acknowledge the kind of resentment he has poured upon his son from the moment he was born. To say this out loud would force him to face this fact, but of course this won't happen because at the moment that's not what the writers are after.

Masood not once but twice has gambled and lost the family's finances, which funnily enough included funds for Tamwar and Kamil! Not that this was mentioned last night of course. And his gambling habit precedes him meeting Zainab, as we now know through his conversations with AJ. The love of risk factor he despises in Syed and which he now attributes to Zainab's lies and snobbery comes from none other than him. He set the example with his love of gambling, danger, risk of the pursuit, the getting a kick out of it. Syed grew up to see this as way to get the things that would please his mother and earn his father's elusive respect. Zainab might be a snob but Masood is a risk taker who actually loves the thrill of the chase, and he blames and despises Syed for being both? Classic!

And let's not forget that Syed was nearly killed last year because of Masood's own mishandling of the AB's finances! He put a lot of lives at risk that day, in fact he could have been sued, and they should have lost the AB. Syed bore the brunt of it all, not that Masood did anything about it at the time, why, he didn't even bother to go and visit Syed at the hospital. I found it interesting that AJ's words, 'nobody died' were a kind of echo of Greg's words at to Masood at the time of the roof collapse, 'it's only a building Masood, it's only a building'. Masood apologised for the awful words he said on that day, but he has never said sorry for this other crucial part, neither to Syed nor Christian.

It's not only Masood who leaves important parts out, Tamwar didn't acknowledge last night that it was his failure to pay the mortgage not once, not twice but three times in row that put the AB in jeopardy in the first place. Syed's subsequent terrible actions only compounded what was already in motion. When he shouted at Tamwar that he had not been the one who ran the place to the ground he was stating a true fact. But of course, the writers made sure this was done in a way that many would interpret it as Syed blaming Tamwar.

And what about the fountain pen vs. the mountain bike story? Yes, it happened I'm sure but funny how failed to mention the car he got when he finished school or the fact that he got the AB when he got married, something that in fact came from Zainab as a genuine act of love! It was Zainab who told Masood it was a good thing to do for Tamwar, to acknowledge that he had grown up and was a wonderful son, and that this would give them more time to be with each other.She was in tears when they gave the restaurant to Tamwar, incredibly proud and full of love for her son. Yet none of this was referenced, because of course, everything has to be about Zainab/Syed vs Masood/Tamwar Tamwar does understand just how dysfunctional his parents are though, he knows he and his siblings really didn't stand a chance and are the product of that, as does Syed and they need to move away from their parents' grasp.

And yet things are not that simple either. Masood and Zainab's marriage was the result of an affair, and although it was understandable given the terrible parental and spousal abuse Zainab was suffering, it was nonetheless done in a culture and faith that highly condemns it. Zainab' snobbery is borne out a deep seated need to atone for that sin. Inzaman spent years reminding her of it and making passes at her and Yusef's manipulation last year convinced her she deserved eveything she got. So it's not just a clear case of Zainab and Syed being snobs, or Masood being all righteous and put upon, it's the convoluted result of a poisonous past, mixed with an intransigent culture and wrong understandings of faith. In a sense they're all both victims of this and yet they have to take responsibility for their own actions.

In all this, Shabnam is hardly ever mentioned, and the fact that she has not attended the four weddings of her immediate family say a lot as well. Syed, Tamwar and Zainab have all married while she's been away in Pakistan, that's quite a feat for a loving muslim daughter and sister. I also find it incredible that in all the recriminations flying about Masood has never mentioned her, it's always all about his sons. But to be honest, growing up in such a toxic environment I don't blame Shabnam for staying away, it's probably the sanest thing to do.

Anyhoo, this is a long post as it is. I hope that next week, when Tamwar apparently tells Masood a few home truths some of this will be referenced but my expectations of this happening are very low indeed.