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Elementary - UK Pace - No Spoilers Please


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Old 26-02-2013, 19:39
manics2003
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Sky are advertising this on demand catch up but I can't find it. Didnt watch it when it started last year. Any ideas
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Old 27-02-2013, 10:35
Stansfield
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Great return of Elementary last night, with the Sleepers in Suburbia.

But is Strumpet a new word for the Americans...which the one they met, had Eye's for Watson.....who can't be leaving soon.
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Old 27-02-2013, 10:51
MoreTears
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But is Strumpet a new word for the Americans...
What do you mean? It would have been common in the US when it was common in England. It has been archaic in both countries for a long time, so I think in both countries you would have people familiar with the word and those who are not.
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Old 27-02-2013, 10:59
Stansfield
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What do you mean? It would have been common in the US when it was common in England. It has been archaic in both countries for a long time, so I think in both countries you would have people familiar with the word and those who are not.
I just thought most Americans had never heard of that word.
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Old 06-03-2013, 14:39
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Vinnie Jones as this week's villain???
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Old 06-03-2013, 14:46
MoreTears
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Vinnie Jones as this week's villain???
It is not like he was Moriarty, which would have been lame. He played a vicious thug, and he plays thugs well.
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Old 06-03-2013, 17:37
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Vinnie Jones played..........Vinnie Jones.No acting required.
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Old 06-03-2013, 19:54
Stansfield
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Vinnie Jones played..........Vinnie Jones.No acting required.
Yes...but he does it well....being a Baddie.....Great episode, and Watson not leaving, which wasn't a surprise.
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Old 12-03-2013, 11:19
Virgil Tracy
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just watched the Vinnie Jones episode , I'd heard he was playing Moriarty and I thought 'oh no - hope it's a bluff ' turns out it was (just hope its not a double bluff !)

anyway - can someone tell me - have we ever seen Sherlock's father ? has Watson ?

also - I noticed in the text he sent her he'd spelt the word cheque in the american way : check .
was that a mistake or a deliberate mistake ??
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Old 12-03-2013, 11:46
MoreTears
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...anyway - can someone tell me - have we ever seen Sherlock's father ? has Watson?
We haven't seen him, and neither has Watson.

...also - I noticed in the text he sent her he'd spelt the word cheque in the american way : check .
was that a mistake or a deliberate mistake ??
I don't think it was a mistake, deliberate or otherwise. Sherlock's father was writing a message for an American's eyes. If he knows that Americans spell the word differently -- and a lot of British people seem to know that fact -- why wouldn't he spell the word the way the American is used to seeing the word spelled? It is just being polite, really.
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Old 12-03-2013, 13:08
Virgil Tracy
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We haven't seen him, and neither has Watson.



I don't think it was a mistake, deliberate or otherwise. Sherlock's father was writing a message for an American's eyes. If he knows that Americans spell the word differently -- and a lot of British people seem to know that fact -- why wouldn't he spell the word the way the American is used to seeing the word spelled? It is just being polite, really.
er... no I can't see that , it's not rude to spell things the British way if you're British .
I'm wondering if he's American , or he isn't really Sherlock's dad and is actually an American pretending to be and this is a clue .

or its just a mistake .
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Old 12-03-2013, 13:46
MoreTears
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er... no I can't see that , it's not rude to spell things the British way if you're British.
Whoa. The absence of a gesture intended as polite is not automatically "rude." As a Canadian I write dates month first, day second -- like an American would. Now sometimes at DS I write dates that way, if I am just posting information for DS members in general, but if a particular British person asks what date a certain show will start, and I reply to that person, I usually spell the date day first, month second -- the British way. I have done that considering it polite, and even friendly. And I can say from first hand-experience of dealing with British ex-pats in Canada that they say things like "pants" rather than "trousers" in talking to Canadians, and refer to car "hoods" instead of "bonnets." Why? Because they are talking to Canadians, and the point of communication is to be understood.
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Old 12-03-2013, 14:47
Flannerz
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It was probably his auto correct!
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Old 13-03-2013, 10:30
storm818
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Whoa. The absence of a gesture intended as polite is not automatically "rude." As a Canadian I write dates month first, day second -- like an American would. Now sometimes at DS I write dates that way, if I am just posting information for DS members in general, but if a particular British person asks what date a certain show will start, and I reply to that person, I usually spell the date day first, month second -- the British way. I have done that considering it polite, and even friendly. And I can say from first hand-experience of dealing with British ex-pats in Canada that they say things like "pants" rather than "trousers" in talking to Canadians, and refer to car "hoods" instead of "bonnets." Why? Because they are talking to Canadians, and the point of communication is to be understood.
The date thing isn't the "British way" its the global way pretty much everywhere outside of North America. Why? because putting the month first makes no sense whatsover.
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Old 13-03-2013, 10:33
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I'm getting bored of Elementary now, there is nothing unique about it whatsoever. After a promising start, the series has just descended to a typical US crime series with nothing new to offer. If you were to watch it for the first time with no mention of the character names, I doubt many people would even be able to figure out that it was a Sherlock Holmes series.

Sherlock on the BBC cannot come back soon enough!
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Old 13-03-2013, 11:17
daniel9624
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While I agree Sherlock is superior, and this weeks eps was filler, last weeks was a really great ep. Sherlock is only superior because a) the acting talent and more importantly b) it only 3 eps per season. Most US shows last much longer and this dilutes the sometimes really great premises of these shows
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Old 13-03-2013, 11:25
MoreTears
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The date thing isn't the "British way" its the global way pretty much everywhere outside of North America.
Nonsense. There is no "global way." Hungary, Lithuania, China, Japan, both Koreas, Mongolia, and Iran put the YEAR first in their representations of dates. It is all about what is customary in a particular place. It is not mathematics. There is no matter of "sense" involved. And I said "British way" meaning the way it is done in Britain. I didn't mean to imply that the way it is done in Britain isn't done anywhere else besides Britain.
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Old 13-03-2013, 11:43
MoreTears
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While I agree Sherlock is superior, and this weeks eps was filler, last weeks was a really great ep. Sherlock is only superior because a) the acting talent and more importantly b) it only 3 eps per season. Most US shows last much longer and this dilutes the sometimes really great premises of these shows
Sherlock is better, but not for the reasons you suggest. Elementary is hampered somewhat by being -- by design -- a procedural, which means that there is a set formula that is repeated over and over again. That has nothing to do with number of episodes. There are Americans series that have many more than THREE episodes a season that are in a serial format, and many of them are better shows than Sherlock (Breaking Bad, Game Of Thrones, etc.) Nor is it about acting talent. Johnny Lee Miller's Sherlock is no worse than Cumberbatch's; they are just very different takes on Conan Doyle's character. Sherlock has more style than Elementary, it is more hip, and Steven Moffat is just a brilliant writer. Take away Moffat and Sherlock is probably not much better than Elementary. Each of the two "middle episodes" in the two series of Sherlock (neither of which were written by Moffat) were no better than any episodes of Elementary, and may even be behind a few Elementary episodes.
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Old 13-03-2013, 11:44
storm818
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Nonsense. There is no "global way." Hungary, Lithuania, China, Japan, both Koreas, Mongolia, and Iran put the YEAR first in their representations of dates. It is all about what is customary in a particular place. It is not mathematics. There is no matter of "sense" involved. And I said "British way" meaning the way it is done in Britain. I didn't mean to imply that the way it is done in Britain isn't done anywhere else besides Britain.
Actually there is a very logical reason for putting the day first. 13/03/2013 means you are talking about the 13th day of the 3rd month of the year 2013.
03/13/2013 makes no sense when trying to describe it in the order which it is written.

It may not be maths but it doesn't need to be for something to be illogical.
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Old 13-03-2013, 11:48
storm818
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Sherlock is better, but not for the reasons you suggest. Elementary is hampered somewhat by being -- by design -- a procedural, which means that there is a set formula that is repeated over and over again. That has nothing to do with number of episodes. There are Americans series that have many more than THREE episodes a season that are in a serial format, and many of them are better shows than Sherlock (Breaking Bad, Game Of Thrones, etc.) Nor is it about acting talent. Johnny Lee Miller's Sherlock is no worse than Cumberbatch's; they are just very different takes on Conan Doyle's character. Sherlock has more style than Elementary, it is more hip, and Steven Moffat is just a brilliant writer. Take away Moffat and Sherlock is probably not much better than Elementary. Each of the two "middle episodes" in the two series of Sherlock (neither of which were written by Moffat) were no better than any episodes of Elementary, and may even be behind a few Elementary episodes.
Spot on! Moffat's writing makes Sherlock what it is.

However, the 2 leads in Sherlock are far superior in playing their respective roles than Miller & Liu which i think is another big factor.
Miller's Sherlock is too frantic, erratic and not precise enough for me.
The chemistry between Cumberbatch & Freeman too is more captivating. Youd think a male/female pairing would work well but Liu & Miller just don't cut it together for me.
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Old 13-03-2013, 12:07
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Vinnie Jones played..........Vinnie Jones.No acting required.
In the original books Colonel Sebastian Moran was born the son of Sir Augustus Moran, CB, sometime Minister to Persia.
He was educated at Eton College and the University of Oxford before embarking upon a military career. Basically he was an Officer and a Gentleman: a cad, a bounder and a rogue of course but a gentleman none the less.

Elementary seems to have taken their cue from the Robert Downey Jnr. films however and made Moran a working class soldier.


EDIT - I have to say that whilst I certainly hold Sherlock in higher regard, the wife and I are enjoying Elementary. We've giving up on seeing it as a police proceedural mystery, seeing as how the criminal can be identified at least 20 minutes before Sherlock manages it if not as soon as they appear on screen, and just watch it for entertainment. It's all about the characters and their interaction now and on that level it does OK enough to maintain it's series link.

(Something Chicago Fire most certainly did not manage)
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Old 13-03-2013, 12:07
MoreTears
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Actually there is a very logical reason for putting the day first. 13/03/2013 means you are talking about the 13th day of the 3rd month of the year 2013.
03/13/2013 makes no sense when trying to describe it in the order which it is written.
But nobody in North American says "the_day of the month of_of the year_." In fact, I doubt anybody in the UK says anything so laborious either.

It may not be maths but it doesn't need to be for something to be illogical.
Obviously a day is smaller than a month and a month is smaller than a year. You are assuming logic demands an ordering of smallest-middle-biggest. Quite simply, no. Why not biggest-middle-smallest, then, as is the norm in the countries I listed above? That makes even more "sense," doesn't it? Logic does not apply to this. It is all about convention, custom.
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Old 13-03-2013, 12:12
Rorschach
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But nobody in North American says "the_day of the month of_of the year_." In fact, I doubt anybody in the UK says anything so laborious either.
I would guess that when asked the date (or asked when their birthday is for example) as many people in the UK would say "March 13th" as "13th of March" giving neither method the edge.
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Old 13-03-2013, 12:21
MoreTears
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However, the 2 leads in Sherlock are far superior in playing their respective roles than Miller & Liu which i think is another big factor.
Miller's Sherlock is too frantic, erratic and not precise enough for me.
The chemistry between Cumberbatch & Freeman too is more captivating. Youd think a male/female pairing would work well but Liu & Miller just don't cut it together for me.
Cumberbatch's Sherlock is practically an alien. Miller's is far more human, much easier to actually care about. Both are interesting, and valid, interpretations of the literary character. Miller's is definitely better suited to a show with 24 episodes a season. Cumberbatch's "high-functioning sociopath" who just happens to be on the right side would get REALLY off-putting over 24 episodes in nine months.

The trouble with comparing Freeman and Liu is obvious. They are not only different genders, they have different types of relationships with Holmes that really have nothing to do with their respective genders. Freeman is a straight up friend, if one who assists with his friend's work. Liu started out as a professional care giver of a sort, and now she is changing into a student -- and somewhere in there there is something resembling friendship. I think Freeman and Liu are both succeeding equally well in what they are supposed to be doing, and I am thankful that as in the case of the Cumberbatch/Miller comparison, there is a different flavour to the performances and relationships rather than a treading of the same ground.
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Old 13-03-2013, 12:43
Rorschach
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Cumberbatch's Sherlock is practically an alien. Miller's is far more human, much easier to actually care about.
It probably says something about the company I keep (and me personally) but I know more people that are like Cumberbatch's Sherlock than Miller's.

In my circle of friends a severe lack of social skills and a willingness to spout on about "interesting" facts at length is far more common than being covered in tattoos or sleeping with twins.
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