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Madonna - Queen Of Plagiarism?


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Old 22-10-2012, 15:21
RetroMusicFan
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Or does she just have a lot of inspirations?

http://www.listal.com/list/lady-gaga-did-not-steal

Personally I think there's a mixture, of inspiration/copying/tribute and homage.

Your thoughts please!
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Old 24-10-2012, 07:29
mushymanrob
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over the last ten years her output has been lazy, often using older sounds/styles in her material. but tbh in the 80's and 90's she cut new ground and paved the way for many to follow.
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Old 24-10-2012, 07:40
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Hardly. That title goes to Beyonce

Anyone who is aware of Madonna's career knows she has been hugely influenced by Marilyn monroe in her early career. Hardly plagarism. More of a tribute. She is the only person I know to pay tribute to Marilyn in such a sexy sophisticated way.
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Old 24-10-2012, 10:20
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Madonna has spent her whole career being derivative. Or should I say her stylists and producers, because it's them that come up with her looks and sound, not her. The only things that sounded fairly original at the time were the True Blue and Ray Of Light albums, and that was thanks to Bray, Leonard, and William Orbit. She has released some killer pop songs in the past though, I'll give her that. She does deserve her fame.
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Old 24-10-2012, 12:05
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Madonna has spent her whole career being derivative. Or should I say her stylists and producers, because it's them that come up with her looks and sound, not her. The only things that sounded fairly original at the time were the True Blue and Ray Of Light albums, and that was thanks to Bray, Leonard, and William Orbit. She has released some killer pop songs in the past though, I'll give her that. She does deserve her fame.
I disagree. She is not a puppet. Madonna does her own style all her self. She is inspired by old movie stars, mainly Marilyn
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Old 24-10-2012, 12:30
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I disagree. She is not a puppet. Madonna does her own style all her self. She is inspired by old movie stars, mainly Marilyn
She's definitely not a puppet but the producers she's worked with have helped make her a star and shaped her career.

I mean her first couple of singles were big on the dance charts but it was Holiday that gave her her first hit as a single wasn't it?

And Jellybean was responsible for helping her with that and she wrote and sang backing on his song Sidewalk Talk.

Mark Kamins, Nile Rodgers, Steve Bray, Pat Leonard were also responsible for shaping Madonna into the international icon she is.

Shep Pettibone and William Orbit helped her continue to make great songs.

Madonna is the star but without all these great producers she would have been a very different Madonna.

It would do her good to get in touch with some of these people, i.e. Bray and Leonard.
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Old 24-10-2012, 12:42
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I disagree. She is not a puppet. Madonna does her own style all her self. She is inspired by old movie stars, mainly Marilyn
She has employed stylists since the 1980s.
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Old 24-10-2012, 12:49
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Madonna is very much her own creation, her own artist and her own legacy.

She hires her own team of stylists, producers and writers to collaborate with to achieve the vision SHE wants...not what her label decides, not what her fans decide. Much like Bowie, Madonna has always had a keen eye for cutting new trends and pushing forward the envelope....she utilises a lot of cinematics in her music more than musicians.

Although Madonna does indeed have musical influences that have grounded her and inspired her to become the musician she is....film is also a key player as well as painters and artists....Bette Davis, Marilyn Monroe, James Dean among the golden era of Hollywood that have impacted her in look, in mannerism and in approach.

Madonna doesnt plagarise...she reinvents with new aspects and new concepts...it is very inspiring...not "direct rip-offs" she actually has cited her influences many times too .

But Madonna writes and co-writes all her own material, she produces and co-produces all of her musical productions, she works with her team as a collaborative effort to put the best of what they can do with Madonnas own vision.

That is the be all and end all of the matter....we all have opinions but this is indeed fact.
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Old 24-10-2012, 13:09
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Madonna is very much her own creation, her own artist and her own legacy.

She hires her own team of stylists, producers and writers to collaborate with to achieve the vision SHE wants...not what her label decides, not what her fans decide. Much like Bowie, Madonna has always had a keen eye for cutting new trends and pushing forward the envelope....she utilises a lot of cinematics in her music more than musicians.

Although Madonna does indeed have musical influences that have grounded her and inspired her to become the musician she is....film is also a key player as well as painters and artists....Bette Davis, Marilyn Monroe, James Dean among the golden era of Hollywood that have impacted her in look, in mannerism and in approach.

Madonna doesnt plagarise...she reinvents with new aspects and new concepts...it is very inspiring...not "direct rip-offs" she actually has cited her influences many times too .

But Madonna writes and co-writes all her own material, she produces and co-produces all of her musical productions, she works with her team as a collaborative effort to put the best of what they can do with Madonnas own vision.

That is the be all and end all of the matter....we all have opinions but this is indeed fact.
With respect, from reading your output on Madonna I don't think you're capable of being even remotely objective on the matter.
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Old 24-10-2012, 13:23
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With respect, from reading your output on Madonna I don't think you're capable of being even remotely objective on the matter.
EH?

Josh is one of our best posters and he makes me laugh!
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Old 24-10-2012, 13:25
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With respect, from reading your output on Madonna I don't think you're capable of being even remotely objective on the matter.
Well you can ignore all you like, yes i am a fan, yes she is my favourite artist of all time...but yes that is an objective look at Madonna...your statement "True Blue and Ray Of Light are her only albums of originality" or whatever really are untrue, they are your opinion but it is so far from the truth.

Also Orbit, Bray, Pettibone and Leonard they work WITh Madonna and she pushes them as much as they motivate her too....its not that they pen it produce it and she just sings it...far from it...Madonna is an artist with vision and inspiration, there is a difference.

Just read the Shep Pettibone Erotica Diaries of their recordings sessions 1991 - 1992 it really is the most detail unveiled of M in the studio.

Leonard, Bray, Orbit, Price, Miwais etc have all spoken out about how Madonna is so controlled and lets loose in the studio with her visions and concepts and the way she motivates them to go for broke with their co-productions with her...it is a magic unachieved with anyone else they have worked with.
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Old 24-10-2012, 13:25
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Madonna is very much her own creation, her own artist and her own legacy.

She hires her own team of stylists, producers and writers to collaborate with to achieve the vision SHE wants...not what her label decides, not what her fans decide. Much like Bowie, Madonna has always had a keen eye for cutting new trends and pushing forward the envelope....she utilises a lot of cinematics in her music more than musicians.

Although Madonna does indeed have musical influences that have grounded her and inspired her to become the musician she is....film is also a key player as well as painters and artists....Bette Davis, Marilyn Monroe, James Dean among the golden era of Hollywood that have impacted her in look, in mannerism and in approach.

Madonna doesnt plagarise...she reinvents with new aspects and new concepts...it is very inspiring...not "direct rip-offs" she actually has cited her influences many times too .

But Madonna writes and co-writes all her own material, she produces and co-produces all of her musical productions, she works with her team as a collaborative effort to put the best of what they can do with Madonnas own vision.

That is the be all and end all of the matter....we all have opinions but this is indeed fact.
Sounds just like Madonna that!

She's inspired by and has inspired scores of people, you only have to look at the stars who came after her.
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Old 24-10-2012, 13:27
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With respect, from reading your output on Madonna I don't think you're capable of being even remotely objective on the matter.
THIS
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Old 24-10-2012, 13:28
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Sounds just like Madonna that!

She's inspired by and has inspired scores of people, you only have to look at the stars who came after her.
As long as i can do both Retro as long as i can do both

And yes exactly...there was a poster where it showed Madonna from the Music booklet and her milkshake sucking up...and it had shown Warhol, Bowie, Monroe, Bette Davis, Mae West (i think), Dietrich. And from the other side the spiderwebs of so many artists, performers, entertainers, celebrities under her influence from Britney to Beyonce to P!nk to Justin Timberlake to Kylie to Marilyn Manson etc etc etc

Must try and find where it was....but its truly truly great.
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Old 24-10-2012, 13:45
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As long as i can do both Retro as long as i can do both

And yes exactly...there was a poster where it showed Madonna from the Music booklet and her milkshake sucking up...and it had shown Warhol, Bowie, Monroe, Bette Davis, Mae West (i think), Dietrich. And from the other side the spiderwebs of so many artists, performers, entertainers, celebrities under her influence from Britney to Beyonce to P!nk to Justin Timberlake to Kylie to Marilyn Manson etc etc etc

Must try and find where it was....but its truly truly great.
You do, I really don't know what casual is talking about, you're only young but you have a very extensive knowledge when it comes to Madonna and your posts always have plenty of content.

And you're pleasant as well and always manage to post without making offensive comments or slagging off other artists or people.

Oh and you must find that poster I'd love to see it!
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Old 24-10-2012, 13:58
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GaGa copied Madonna's copying addiction. They're all at it.
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Old 24-10-2012, 14:06
Josh Pinder
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You do, I really don't know what casual is talking about, you're only young but you have a very extensive knowledge when it comes to Madonna and your posts always have plenty of content.

And you're pleasant as well and always manage to post without making offensive comments or slagging off other artists or people.

Oh and you must find that poster I'd love to see it!
I try to keep it neutral what can i say

And i always try and see the best in everything even when its an uphill struggle at times but hey! Sometimes you just cannot win em all....theres always a handful within every crowd...a handful you just can never compatable with and a handful where you go...you know what thats my kinda people

And slagging off i absolutely loathe i mean i hate when i have to write my reports it feels like im being snyde so i try and kinda neutralise it...as i do .

And yes i know right i cant remember where i saw it...may have been in the AT i posted a while back not certain...but i remember digging it much so
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Old 24-10-2012, 14:12
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If I'm honest I think that most artists take inspiration from eras past, or what's going on currently at that time. It'd be weird if you weren't influenced by things when you in a creative mood. I mean for example - when I'm preparing for orchestral auditions, I listen to loads of recordings and performances so I can get a clear idea of the excerpts. It's to understand the context, find out what you like, what you don't like - it's research.
I'd imagine it's similar for pop artists. Especially nowadays as it seems everything's been done - you can trace back any look or sound to something similar that's gone before. Regarding Madonna and also Gaga - I think that's what they've done. They're obviously very inspired by certain eras and looks and put a new spin on it. They're both incredibly involved in their careers in terms of the music and the aesthetic. The line between inspiration and plagiarism is very thin and I guess changes depending on who you are. Some are going to say plagiarism and others will argue inspiration. It's all subjective...
But let's keep it friendly people
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Old 24-10-2012, 17:17
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If I'm honest I think that most artists take inspiration from eras past, or what's going on currently at that time. It'd be weird if you weren't influenced by things when you in a creative mood. I mean for example - when I'm preparing for orchestral auditions, I listen to loads of recordings and performances so I can get a clear idea of the excerpts. It's to understand the context, find out what you like, what you don't like - it's research.
I'd imagine it's similar for pop artists. Especially nowadays as it seems everything's been done - you can trace back any look or sound to something similar that's gone before. Regarding Madonna and also Gaga - I think that's what they've done. They're obviously very inspired by certain eras and looks and put a new spin on it. They're both incredibly involved in their careers in terms of the music and the aesthetic. The line between inspiration and plagiarism is very thin and I guess changes depending on who you are. Some are going to say plagiarism and others will argue inspiration. It's all subjective...
But let's keep it friendly people
hmmm.... not quite true with madge though is it... she cut new ground in the 80's and into the 90's. gaga (whom i like, i mean if youre going to be influenced by retro, then do it good, imho she does) however hasnt.
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Old 24-10-2012, 17:25
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just google madonna the thief m has stolen lots of music and images but then so have most stars over the years.
Even kylie in the nineties stole from madonna madonna stole from mariyln,liza,goldfrapp etc.
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Old 24-10-2012, 17:31
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Madonna copying Marilyn Monroe and other movie stars is clearly a way of tribute. Vogue, for example is a love letter to old movie and cultural icons. Same with the video of Material Girl and Diamonds are a Girl's Best Friend.

She is not plagiarizing Monroe because Monroe wasn't a pop star. She's not copying her work but just paying tribute to her look and image.

Gaga on the other hand ...
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Old 24-10-2012, 17:32
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hmmm.... not quite true with madge though is it... she cut new ground in the 80's and into the 90's. gaga (whom i like, i mean if youre going to be influenced by retro, then do it good, imho she does) however hasnt.
What do you mean it's not quite true with Madonna? sorry just didn't get what you meant - it's been a long day
With Gaga I think it's had to say yet whether she's cut new ground - she's only had 2/3 albums... I would say she's had a big influence on the industry thus far but it still remains to be seen what sort of legacy (if any) she'll leave behind...

I mean if you google any artist then I'm sure you can find many photographs where they look similar to somebody else - in terms of outfit, hair, makeup etc... Perhaps it's just not possible to be truly truly original anymore? Who knows?
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Old 24-10-2012, 17:34
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It always AMAZES ME when people think Madonna stole from Monroe. Stole what exactly? every blonde woman in Hollywood was doing the Monroe look after Monroe. Madonna wasn't the first use a similar hairstyle and those who clearly aren't clever enough to see that the Material Girl video was a homage just don't deserve to breath!!!!
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Old 24-10-2012, 17:37
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What do you mean it's not quite true with Madonna? sorry just didn't get what you meant - it's been a long day
With Gaga I think it's had to say yet whether she's cut new ground - she's only had 2/3 albums... I would say she's had a big influence on the industry thus far but it still remains to be seen what sort of legacy (if any) she'll leave behind...

I mean if you google any artist then I'm sure you can find many photographs where they look similar to somebody else - in terms of outfit, hair, makeup etc... Perhaps it's just not possible to be truly truly original anymore? Who knows?
Madonna's impact and legacy will never be repeated by anyone. Madonna changed music for female artists. She altered the musical landscape in a way no female singer had done before. There is no new ground for any new artist to cover because Madonna has already done it all.
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Old 24-10-2012, 17:38
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It always AMAZES ME when people think Madonna stole from Monroe. Stole what exactly? every blonde woman in Hollywood was doing the Monroe look after Monroe. Madonna wasn't the first use a similar hairstyle and those who clearly aren't clever enough to see that the Material Girl video was a homage just don't deserve to breath!!!!
Not saying this is my opinion but it's not like Material Girl was the only time she used the look... With the link in the OP - it shows that there's enough evidence, depending on whether you consider yourself a fan or a non-fan, for citing homage/inspiration as there is plagiarism. As I said before, it's just subjective
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