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Madonna - Queen Of Plagiarism?


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Old 11-07-2013, 11:20
Gigi4
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... Jesus, you guys are desperate to try credit someone for the work of their employees.

Look, the reality is she is a performer. She sings and dances. She doesn't design all her own sets, all her own clothes, fix her hair and make up on her own and singlehandedly control every facet of her career from what she wears to how her records sound. She literally would not have any time to perform if she was doing all of that. Go back and watch in Bed With Madonna, she has people telling her what to do, what to wear and where to go ALL THE TIME.

She PAYS PEOPLE TO DO JOBS... FOR HER.

She runs and empire but that doesn't make her the single person in charge of everything. She has a team of people she delegates duties to. Honestly, you're trying to make a 50 year old pop singer into some kind of omniscient, omnipotent demagogue rather than accepting she pays people that are good at what they do to do their very best for her. It's not only incredibly fantastical to assume any one person controls everything about their career when it is so diverse, it is a disservice to the work of those that are putting in the time to choreograph both her and her dancers, design their costumes, book the venues, arrange the VIPs, sort the rider out and ensure the show runs smoothly from the lighting to the set and costume changes.

Madonna is not a superhero who can work at the speed of light. She is a normal woman who works hard but also has others working hard for her. This is not about taking credit away from her work, it's about acknowleding and crediting others for the work they do for her rather than pretending she's an octopus with all the skills and time in the world.

And no, I doubt she tells Arianna what to do because IT'S ARIANNA'S JOB TO KNOW ALL THESE THINGS FOR MADONNA. The next trends are what she is paid to keep aware of and process in order to produce suitable and on trend fashions for Madonna's shows. That's her bloody job, if it's not, what is she on the payroll for? You honestly think a working mother of 4 who is the patron of charities and schools, who claims to only sleep 4-6 hours a night, is going to go through every goddamn fashion magazine in the last three months published internationally to tap up the next big designers and trends? No. She pays people to do that so she doesn't have to. Running an empire doesn't mean doing everything alone before telling someone what to do, it involves trusting your employees to do their best work. It's why Donald Trump doesn't answer his own phoneline and has a secretary.

Seriously, let's be real here. Undermining her artistic vision? Most of her songs are written or co-written for her, her original act is a take of from Veronica Lake and Marilyn Monroe, she has employed producers to make the majority of her music because she didn't even learn acoustic guitar until she was 38, she is a first and foremost a product and performer, not some fountain of unique and creative originality. Undermine her? I'm sorry, you seem to be of the mindset she is honestly a one woman operation. She is not and has not ever been that and to claim otherwise is to be wholly ignorant of the surfeit of evidence from her multiple tour DVDs and the aforementioned IBWM.
Wow! You seem so desperate to undermine Madonna's talent and ability to create. Why does she threaten you so much? I never said she's a one woman operation. It's impossible to be a super star and do everything yourself. But I said it's her vision and she's in control of what she wants. And what you said about her learning to play guitar at 38 is not true. When she first moved to New York as a teenager she was in a band and played drums and guitar. She got away from playing for awhile but went back to it around the time of Music. And she has many diverse looks that have nothing in common with either Veronica Lake or Marilyn Monroe. Why can't people give Madonna the credit she deserves for her talent and her artistry like they do for other artists? I don't understand it at all.
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Old 11-07-2013, 13:24
Hit Em Up Style
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It's like proclaiming the Spice Girls invented girl-power (Bananarama anyone?).
I'm sorry but what!!! lool

Spice Girls and Bananarama were poles apart. Like seriously.

The Spice Girls captured an entire generation of teenage girls and made them stand up for themselves regardless of their background, colour or sexual preference, They stood for individuality and their legacy is still here today. Their effect on popular culture cannot be denied. Hell!!! even Adele calls out Geri Halliwell time and time again as being her idol!!

It has even been proclaimed the ladette culture is because of how the Spice Girls changed society.

Bananarama did nothing on that scale. They have no legacy compared to the SG.


As for Madonna. Some of the attempts to discredit her are pathetic now.

''She has a stylist''

lol if that's the best people can come up with you know the bottom of the barrel has been hit.
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Old 11-07-2013, 15:17
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I'm sorry but what!!! lool

Spice Girls and Bananarama were poles apart. Like seriously.

The Spice Girls captured an entire generation of teenage girls and made them stand up for themselves regardless of their background, colour or sexual preference, They stood for individuality and their legacy is still here today. Their effect on popular culture cannot be denied. Hell!!! even Adele calls out Geri Halliwell time and time again as being her idol!!

It has even been proclaimed the ladette culture is because of how the Spice Girls changed society.

Bananarama did nothing on that scale. They have no legacy compared to the SG.


As for Madonna. Some of the attempts to discredit her are pathetic now.

''She has a stylist''

lol if that's the best people can come up with you know the bottom of the barrel has been hit.
I have to agree about the Spice Girls but I do prefer Bananarama.
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Old 11-07-2013, 15:30
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She runs and empire but that doesn't make her the single person in charge of everything.
If she's the one running her own empire, she *is* ultimately in charge of everything. You don't have to do everything to be in charge of everything.

Granted, I don't know everything there is to know about Madonna - and I guess she ultimately answers to whomever she is under contract to - but other than that she appears to be running her own show. The responsibility for fulfilling her contracts ultimately stops with her. She may have people doing the work for her, but is she the boss and the one in control of her own career? It would appear so.
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Old 12-07-2013, 09:16
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You seem biased against her. I'm sure if I attacked one of your favourite artists like Prince, you would come to his defense. What makes Prince more classy than Madonna? He uses sexual imagery just as much as she does. I like Prince's music but his arrogance turns me off. He recently gave an interview saying that people come to his shows 50 times because other artists are so bad that coming to see him is the only way to hear quality music. Prince acts like he invented performing. One of the things I like about Madonna is she lets the work speak for itself. You either get her or you don't.
I don't see Madonna manipulating or taking credit. She colloborates with other artists and always acknowledges them. But she has taken performance to another level even if she didn't invent it. As far as vocal talent, it is a lot of times a matter of personal preference. I much prefer Madonna's voice to Debbie Harry or Grace Jones. Does Grace even sing? A lot of her songs sound spoken to me.
Am not overly biased against her, from hearing it a while back Erotica's a good album (I own Bedtime Stories and admire ROL too) but true to form Madonna had to accompany it with a vanity 'project' (SEX). I don't like Prince too much as a person either but boy does he deliver musically, and that's why he's in a league of his own. He's classier than the likes of Madonna because he doesn't rely on large-scale controversies or painfully calculated publicity stunts (e.g. Madonna taking a hit at Sinead O' Connor to promote SEX). Each to their own about 'getting' her, because in that case I don't.

If you honestly think she never manipulates or takes credit from others, I'd suggest looking up Stephen Bray and a story of her coming to London before she hit the big time and copying Bananarama's look. She's proof of the saying "Change a word, take a third" and slight arrogance too "If you can't afford me save up, I'm worth it". Again agree to disagree on how taking performance to a new level, because I don't think constantly advocating sex (flashing her body during her MDNA tour) is breaking new ground it gets boring quite frankly like Rihanna.

I'm sorry but what!!! lool

Spice Girls and Bananarama were poles apart. Like seriously.

The Spice Girls captured an entire generation of teenage girls and made them stand up for themselves regardless of their background, colour or sexual preference, They stood for individuality and their legacy is still here today. Their effect on popular culture cannot be denied. Hell!!! even Adele calls out Geri Halliwell time and time again as being her idol!!

It has even been proclaimed the ladette culture is because of how the Spice Girls changed society.

Bananarama did nothing on that scale. They have no legacy compared to the SG.


As for Madonna. Some of the attempts to discredit her are pathetic now.

''She has a stylist''

lol if that's the best people can come up with you know the bottom of the barrel has been hit.
If you read my post properly I was using an analogy to how some artists take their cue from what's come before in some way, that's hardly discrediting the Spice Girls as I love them too! Bananarama are before my time, but someone would have to be incredibly biased to think the SG took nothing from them at all.

I'd suggest looking at some of Bananarama's videos; objectification reversed, gender role play in performance etc.

Only difference between the two is the Spice Girls were luckier gaining such a huge fanbase, Bananarama exuded girl power from the start only difference is they were much more subtle.
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Old 17-07-2013, 03:10
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Also Orbit, Bray, Pettibone and Leonard they work WITh Madonna and she pushes them as much as they motivate her too....its not that they pen it produce it and she just sings it...far from it...Madonna is an artist with vision and inspiration, there is a difference.

Just read the Shep Pettibone Erotica Diaries of their recordings sessions 1991 - 1992 it really is the most detail unveiled of M in the studio.

Leonard, Bray, Orbit, Price, Miwais etc have all spoken out about how Madonna is so controlled and lets loose in the studio with her visions and concepts and the way she motivates them to go for broke with their co-productions with her...it is a magic unachieved with anyone else they have worked with.
It's funny that you should mention Stephen Bray because he's actually said on numerous occasions that Madonna's input into her music wasn't very much at all when he worked with her.

I know you're a super fan but neither you, me or anybody else would be singing any of the Madonna songs we all know if it wasn't for people like William Orbit, Stephen Bray, Stuart Price, Patrick Leonard, etc. who are the real brains behind the music. There's no denying that Madonna will go into the studio with a theme in mind, she will know which producer that she wants to work with, she will know what sort of sound she wants, she will co-write tracks, etc. but she also doesn't have the talent to fully recognise her ideas and bring them to complete fruition. To me she's no different to many of the other pop stars out there in that regard. I think that's what some of the people on here are trying to say. Look back at her discography and you will notice that hardly any of her music is written sorely by her. She simply doesn't possess the level of talent needed to make the music by herself or without a lot of help. There's no denying that she's taken the pop world by the balls and has followed her own path for the last 30 odd years, but there's also no denying that she's not the musical genius many make her out to be. It would be a different story had she sat down and wrote and produced Like a Prayer by herself but she didn't. Fans talk about her talent for playing the guitar and the drums, so why hasn't she played drums on any of her albums if she's fully proficient on the instrument? Why didn't she play guitar on some of the tracks on American Life instead of Mirwais? I've read numerous times that she's the mouthpiece for talented songwriters and producers, and I agree in a way. While Madonna might be in control of certain areas of her career, she's at the hands of others when it comes to studio work.
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Old 17-07-2013, 03:28
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Lots of other artists work with outside producers even bands. But somehow this is held against Madonna, but not other artists. It actually tells me she's not an egomaniac, she actually wants to hear other people's opinions on what she does. She's interested in other people's ideas. But people refuse to give her any credit for what she does.
Look at a band like Duran Duran. They work with outside producers on every album. They needed Mark Ronson for the last album. But everyone praises their talent. But Madonna has to play every instrument herself or she's worthless. I hate the double standard. I like DD a lot, but why are they seen as different than Madonna even though they use outside producers. No one ever says they aren't talented because they use outside producers.
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Old 17-07-2013, 03:48
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A. Again agree to disagree on how taking performance to a new level, because I don't think constantly advocating sex (flashing her body during her MDNA tour) is breaking new ground it gets boring quite frankly like Rihanna.


.
If you think MDNA tour is just about flashing her body and sex, I suggest your watch the whole DVD when it comes out. There's a lot more substance to it than that. Yes, there's nudity because sex is part of life, but it's about much more than that. I've never seen Rihanna live, but I doubt she has the same storyline. The tour is about wanting revenge hence the guns at the beginning, but coming to terms with your anger at the loss of a relationship. And finding at the end, joy in life again and revenge is not the right way. Yes, there's some nudity in Like A Virgin, but it's not the whole show. And that song is not about just physical nudity, but emotional nudity. It's about opening your heart to someone, and yes, you get hurt, but you can heal and move on. In fact, you have to open up and be vulnerable, to find the strength to move on. Madonna does nudity and shocking things, but if you look at them intelligently, you can see there's a point to what she does. It's not just shocking for the sake of shocking. She has an intellectual and emotional side to her show, if you take the time to analyze them, instead of just superficial judgment.
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Old 17-07-2013, 08:15
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My problem with Madonna isn’t that she’s paid homages it’s the fact that she’s paid so many.
Exactly!




These are just a few of the people Madonna paid “homage” to in her career, many of them within the first ten years (and often multiple times):

Greta Garbo, Jean Harlow, Jayne Mansfield, Jane Russell, Gina Lollobrigida, Marilyn Monroe, Marlene Dietrich, Bette Davis, Brigitte Bardot, Katherine Hepburn, Princess Diana, Audrey Hepburn, Ginger Rogers, Ann-Margret, Sophia Loren, Jean Seberg, Sue Lyon, Bettie Page, Debbie Harry, Liza Minnelli, Louise Brooks, Marlon Brando, Thelma Todd, Andy Warhol, Grace Kelly, Carole Lombard, Donna Summer, Veronica Lake, Joan Crawford, Rita Hayworth, James Dean, Shirley MacLaine, Dale Bozzio, Nastassja Kinski, Tina Turner, Gwen Wong, Horst P. Horst, Dita Parloner, Wendy O Williams, Ernest Bachrach, Ken Russell, Fritz Lang, Philip Kaufman, etc.

How many people does one person want to pay homage to?
You're forgetting Barbara Stanwyck, Maria de Medeiros, Nina Hagen, Chrissie Hynde and Annie Lennox.

One of the biggest influences on Madonna has undoubtedly been Marilyn Monroe. Madonna has paid so many homages to Marilyn over the years that the line between admiration and obsession has become blurred. She’s devoured so many of Marilyn’s iconic looks and mannerisms and simply recreated them at various points in her career. Everybody’s aware of the “Material Girl” music video and the lame Oscar performance in 1991 but it’s much, much more than that. She’s become a walking, talking Marilyn Monroe tribute act, dressing up as her in everything from music videos to fashion shoots to single covers to live performances to TV performances to magazine spreads and pictures. How is this clever or genius? To do it once or twice is OK, to do it literally dozens upon dozens of times is simply lazy and uninspired. Even Madonna’s hair and outfit in the “Open Your Heart” video was blatantly lifted from Marilyn in the 1960 film “Let’s Make Love”. The “Give It 2 Me” video (the rope, the outfit) was also heavily influenced by Marilyn . It's funny how it's always Madonna fans who criticise other people who pay, or have paid, the odd tribute to Marilyn at some point in their careers. Hmmm....
Exactly. The following site shows you just how "inspired" Madonna has been by Marilyn Monroe in her career:

http://antimadonna.dark-host.com/gal...original1.html

...talk about obsessed. Can you imagine if another artist had paid this many homages to one person? Madonna fans would never let it go.

The famous cone bra Madonna wore on her Blond Ambition Tour was simply a recreation of a cone bra Bettie Page wore in the 1950s. Most of the content in Madonna’s 1992 Sex book (as well as several performance costumes/ideas) was also lifted from Irving Klaw’s work with Bettie Page in the 1950s. Madonna literally copied art direction, scenery, poses and looks from Bettie Page pictures in exact detail in the Sex book. It amazes me how many call the Sex book groundreaking and important for women. It was groundreaking in the 1950s when Bettie Page did it first; she was the first female bondage model.
The model Lisa Marie actually sported a cone bra in 1989, a year before Madonna and Jean Paul Gaultier came out with theirs. Madonna's is pretty much exactly like Lisa Marie's except it's gold. I think the inspiration was a mix between what Lisa Marie was photographed wearing as well as Bettie Page. You're right about the Sex book.


The "Bedtime Stories" era was simply recycled Jean Harlow imagery. Where's the originality? Why does everything always have to be a homage? Even Bjork spoke out about how uncomfortable she was with Madonna singing like her on the song "Bedtime Story" and dressing up like her in the music video. Just because Bjork wrote the track with Nelle Hooper and Marius De Vries doesn't mean that Madonna had to literally "Bjork herself up".
Madonna's look in the Human Nature video was "inspired" by Nina Hagen. Nina was photographed dressed in skin tight black leather, bound to a chair with rope around her legs, waist, chest and neck. This was years before Madonna sported exactly the same look in her music video in 1995. Some of the styling during the Bedtime Stories period was also recycled from Bettie Davis.

Madonna has certainly paid many, many homages and tributes over the years. It's amazing that people call her a genius and groundbreaking when all she's done most of time is simply recreated a photo in near-exact detail or taken a look that someone is famous for and styled herself on it time and time again.

Here are a few interesting websites. Note that not everything on these sites is plagiarism per se but many of the things are good examples of Madonna's unoriginality. It's interesting to note that Madonna's people have forcibly had many examples and pictures removed from these sites.

http://www.listal.com/list/lady-gaga-did-not-steal

http://antimadonna.dark-host.com/sit...usictalent.htm

http://www.aishamusic.com/lawsuit_ma...stole_from.htm


The song Holiday ripped off the 1981 song Look of Love by ABC. I'll let that one go since she didn't write it (shock horror).



Other than Madonna, I can't think of another female artist who has relied so heavily or so frequently on paying homages and recycling other people's ideas and art. Not Mariah, Janet, Celine, Whitney, Kylie, Cyndi, Shakira, Britney, Christina, Pink, etc. Sure they've all been inspired by other people at times (who hasn't?) but nowhere near to the level that Madonna has. It's just a shame many of her fans are so out of touch with popular culture that they deem her to be original in everything she does when in reality that couldn’t be further from the truth. I also agree about many of her fans being extremely touchy and petty. If anyone questions anything about Madonna or criticises her in any way her fans will automatically resort to the usual "she's still the best selling female artist of all time". It's true that they resort to anything from tour data, chart facts, music sales as a way to try and dismiss any criticism aimed at her, almost like a shield. Madonna will never be remembered as a great talent in the way The Beatles will. She will be remembered for being someone who made it despite not being paticularly musically gifted. I certainly don't class her as one of the greats. She's a karaoke singer who got extremely lucky.
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Old 17-07-2013, 14:42
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I don't know if it's just me but these Madonna haters posts are uncannily similar, it makes me wonder if they are the same person(s) posting under more than one username.
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Old 17-07-2013, 15:30
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I don't know if it's just me but these Madonna haters posts are uncannily similar, it makes me wonder if they are the same person(s) posting under more than one username.
You mean they are generally well written, with intelligent well founded points. I guess that is a rare thing in Madonna threads....

Also if you don't like it, why create this thread in the first place?
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Old 17-07-2013, 15:38
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Retro isn't far wrong imho as its obvious if you have been around these threads long enough. One of them has already been banned for being a PBU anyway of you look on the previous page.

Word for word the points are now the exact same thing. Layout is the same and everything. We have seen this before in these threads. That's how you can tell.

If Madonna's success pisses people off so much they feel the need to go this far to discredit her then its great! she holds a lot of power over them it would seem. I love the fact hate blogs on Madonna are now being linked to! lol

Madonna fans have been given a rough ride in this topic yet its the Kylie and Prince fans who are making like the jealous ones from what I can see.
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Old 17-07-2013, 15:45
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So from that site and this one - http://www.zootpatrol.com/index.php/...pies-everyone/...I have come to the conclusion:

Madonna = less attractive version of Marilyn Monroe
Lady Gaga = less attractive version of Madonna

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Old 17-07-2013, 15:47
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Retro isn't far wrong imho as its obvious if you have been around these threads long enough. One of them has already been banned for being a PBU anyway of you look on the previous page.

Word for word the points are now the exact same thing. Layout is the same and everything. We have seen this before in these threads. That's how you can tell.

If Madonna's success pisses people off so much they feel the need to go this far to discredit her then its great! she holds a lot of power over them it would seem.

Madonna fans have been given a rough ride in this topic yet its the Kylie and Prince fans who are making like the jealous ones from what I can see.
All I see is a selection of decent written posts, then the OP mostly discrediting the poster or attacking them personally - the OP makes very little attempt to engage with the discussion - in a thread he/she created.

I have nothing against Madonna myself - she's had some great pop songs over the years (and some awful ones too). But in a thread like this it's the fans that look frankly childish.
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Old 17-07-2013, 15:54
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All I see is a selection of decent written posts, then the OP mostly discrediting the poster or attacking them personally - the OP makes very little attempt to engage with the discussion - in a thread he/she created.

I have nothing against Madonna myself - she's had some great pop songs over the years (and some awful ones too). But in a thread like this it's the fans that look frankly childish.
I can't answer anything on Retro's behalf, all I'm saying is what I see from seeing it in many Madonna threads.

They might be decent written but its exactly the same thing being said over and over, word for word by 3 different users. we have had it too much over the years not to notice it. Like I say this happens all the time. Madonna brings this out. I wasn't going to say anything as it amuses me.


Also one of the long posts attacking Madonna has been lifted from another forum! lool copy and paste. I think that's against site rules.
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Old 17-07-2013, 17:09
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I can't answer anything on Retro's behalf, all I'm saying is what I see from seeing it in many Madonna threads.

They might be decent written but its exactly the same thing being said over and over, word for word by 3 different users. we have had it too much over the years not to notice it. Like I say this happens all the time. Madonna brings this out. I wasn't going to say anything as it amuses me.


Also one of the long posts attacking Madonna has been lifted from another forum! lool copy and paste. I think that's against site rules.
I beg to differ.

You have to remember none other than David Bowie has been calling out Madonna since the 1980s for being so obviously "inspired" by other artists, imagery; designers; etc and not giving them their due respect.

You could argue Madonna got her revenge when David Bowie was being inducted into the Rock'N'Roll Hall of Fame in 1996; and the organisers asked Bowie fan Madonna to induct him into it; he gave the organisers the ultimatum to get someone else to induct him in or else he'd not play the gig; so the organisers refused Bowie's request so being a man of principle after his band rehearsed he no showed and played a gig at a venue in Cleveland, Ohio on the same night rather than look like a hypocrite.

Similarly Debbie Harry has been rather miffed at the lack of respect Madonna has shown her with regards to the clear influence compared to the credit the likes of Cyndi Lauper & Lady Gaga have paid to her. Anyone who has seen the video to Debbie Harry's 1981 Backfired video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng3pK-tzuh4 would see she was doing some arm movements characterized by the formation of lines, symmetry, and precision in the execution of formations with graceful, fluid-like action that were becoming prevalent in New York's Harlem ballroom scene called "Voguing".

Similarly the iconic pointed bra was first used by a Jamaican born New York based musician/artist back in 1986 by Miss Grace Jones on another Nile "Like A Virgin" Rodgers produced track http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztUbweJQvi8 "I'm Not Perfect (But I'm Perfect For You)".

Talking of Nile Rodgers ... in the aftermath of Daft Punk's Get Lucky his back catalogue of productions and songwriting has been deservedly back in the spotlight as he has given a number of interviews. One of the things he mentioned was back in late 2011 he appeared in the studio do some session work for a certain New York born female popstar for her yet to be released ARTPOP album. But he mentioned back in the middle of 2012 she phoned him up to tell him much that she loved what he had done she could not use it as she feared the media would crucify her for the Madonna connection.

Truth be told never mind Nile Rodgers has done many great records with Chic; Sister Sledge; David Bowie; Diana Ross; Duran Duran; Bryan Ferry; the B-52s; Carly Simon; Luther Vandross; INXS; Stevie Winwood; Sheena Easton; Thompson Twins; Mick Jagger; Eric Clapton; Cathy Dennis; Daft Punk etc if that collaboration had made ARTPOP then the media and definitely Madonna stans would have gone overboard on the Like A Virgin album connection and referred to Nile Rodgers as "Madonna producer Nile Rodgers".
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Old 17-07-2013, 17:30
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She is very similar to Dr Dre as he has been for the last 20 or so years. He actually doesnt do much production work, he has a very good team that does all the jobs. Same with Madge, she is more of a general type, marshalling the forces and getting the best talent she can. She has done rather well at it if success is a scale you use, artistically I dont think she is too bad either at getting a hold of top musicians and writers.
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Old 17-07-2013, 18:04
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All I see is a selection of decent written posts, then the OP mostly discrediting the poster or attacking them personally - the OP makes very little attempt to engage with the discussion - in a thread he/she created.

I have nothing against Madonna myself - she's had some great pop songs over the years (and some awful ones too). But in a thread like this it's the fans that look frankly childish.
I created this thread because I wanted opinions not an argument, opinions of Madonna not of her fans.

I haven't participated much because I was only after people's views not to point out why I think they're right or wrong,
I never asked for all the 'fan bashing', we don't all hate Lady Gaga or call her a copycat, we never said Madonna was the most original and we aren't all touchy and petty.

I have attacked no one, only pointed out that at least two posters on here are saying exactly the same thing.
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Old 17-07-2013, 22:05
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I beg to differ.

You have to remember none other than David Bowie has been calling out Madonna since the 1980s for being so obviously "inspired" by other artists, imagery; designers; etc and not giving them their due respect.

You could argue Madonna got her revenge when David Bowie was being inducted into the Rock'N'Roll Hall of Fame in 1996; and the organisers asked Bowie fan Madonna to induct him into it; he gave the organisers the ultimatum to get someone else to induct him in or else he'd not play the gig; so the organisers refused Bowie's request so being a man of principle after his band rehearsed he no showed and played a gig at a venue in Cleveland, Ohio on the same night rather than look like a hypocrite.

Similarly Debbie Harry has been rather miffed at the lack of respect Madonna has shown her with regards to the clear influence compared to the credit the likes of Cyndi Lauper & Lady Gaga have paid to her. Anyone who has seen the video to Debbie Harry's 1981 Backfired video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng3pK-tzuh4 would see she was doing some arm movements characterized by the formation of lines, symmetry, and precision in the execution of formations with graceful, fluid-like action that were becoming prevalent in New York's Harlem ballroom scene called "Voguing".

Similarly the iconic pointed bra was first used by a Jamaican born New York based musician/artist back in 1986 by Miss Grace Jones on another Nile "Like A Virgin" Rodgers produced track http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztUbweJQvi8 "I'm Not Perfect (But I'm Perfect For You)".

Talking of Nile Rodgers ... in the aftermath of Daft Punk's Get Lucky his back catalogue of productions and songwriting has been deservedly back in the spotlight as he has given a number of interviews. One of the things he mentioned was back in late 2011 he appeared in the studio do some session work for a certain New York born female popstar for her yet to be released ARTPOP album. But he mentioned back in the middle of 2012 she phoned him up to tell him much that she loved what he had done she could not use it as she feared the media would crucify her for the Madonna connection.

Truth be told never mind Nile Rodgers has done many great records with Chic; Sister Sledge; David Bowie; Diana Ross; Duran Duran; Bryan Ferry; the B-52s; Carly Simon; Luther Vandross; INXS; Stevie Winwood; Sheena Easton; Thompson Twins; Mick Jagger; Eric Clapton; Cathy Dennis; Daft Punk etc if that collaboration had made ARTPOP then the media and definitely Madonna stans would have gone overboard on the Like A Virgin album connection and referred to Nile Rodgers as "Madonna producer Nile Rodgers".
When has David Bowie ever criticized Madonna publically in interviews? I'm not aware of that at all. David is a very classy guy who never makes derogatory comments about other artists. That seems totally at odds with his personality. Maybe you're talking about rumours of what he said to friends, but honestly I've never read that. I've never heard David didn't want Madonna to induct him into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. It sounds totally unlike him. I've never read anything like that in the media.
Madonna has said in many interviews that she loved Debbie Harry growing up and she was an influence on her. So to say Madonna has never credited her is just not true. I don't remember Debbie saying anything like that at all. All I remember her saying was that she felt when Madonna became successful, record companies favoured Madonna and invested in her, and not Debbie. She was blaming record companies not Madonna herself. And Vogue was inspired by a movie Paris is Burning about gay culture in the 1990s not Debbie Harry. Voguing did not exist in the early 80's, it arose in the 1990's.
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Old 17-07-2013, 22:08
Big Boy Barry
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Gaga fans need to get over their obsession with Madonna.

Madonna is the original. Gaga is the crap imitator. Deal with it.
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Old 17-07-2013, 22:19
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Voguing did not exist in the early 80's, it arose in the 1990's.
Really? I was under the impression it did because Malcolm McLaren made a song about it - Deep In Vogue.

hhttp://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a9KDmJQjS_0


Here's a wiki about it

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vogue_(dance)
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Old 17-07-2013, 22:25
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Really? I was under the impression it did because Malcolm McLaren made a song about it - Deep In Vogue.

Here's a wiki about it

[url]http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vogue_(dance)[url]
From what I read there, the term Vogue was used in the 80's for dancing, but it was different from the type of hand movements Madonna did in the Vogue video that people are claiming she's copying from Debbie Harry. The type of vogue dancing that inspired the video came from the 1990's.
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Old 17-07-2013, 22:33
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From what I read there, the term Vogue was used in the 80's for dancing, but it was different from the type of hand movements Madonna did in the Vogue video that people are claiming she's copying from Debbie Harry. The type of vogue dancing that inspired the video came from the 1990's.
I don't know about the Debbie Harry thing but underground gay dance clubs in the 80s have been mentioned when talking about Madonna/Vogue and she went to clubs in the late 70s and early 80s so I figured that was what inspired her.
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Old 17-07-2013, 22:36
Gigi4
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I don't know about the Debbie Harry thing but underground gay dance clubs in the 80s have been mentioned when talking about Madonna/Vogue and she went to clubs in the late 70s and early 80s so I figured that was what inspired her.
She said in many interviews she was inspired by this movie that was released in the 1990's called Paris is Burning about the voguing scene. She mentioned it in Truth or Dare.
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Old 17-07-2013, 22:38
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She said in many interviews she was inspired by this movie that was released in the 1990's called Paris is Burning about the voguing scene. She mentioned it in Truth or Dare.
I must have missed that then as I have never heard of this film!
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