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In the closet gay celebs! Who are they? (Part 2)


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Old 11-04-2014, 13:24
pfgpowell
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This entry was sparked by another thread, but I shall make it independent of that for various reasons. And as it it is a very sensitive topic, let me stress I don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings or be in any way offensive. And given the sensitive nature of what I am about to write, I shall be as tactful as possible.

What has struck me for a while, first when Beyonce came to prominence, but later with several others, including footballers, actors and singers, is how some ‘identify as black’ when they could be anything but - Italian, Spanish, Brazilian etc. Not bad in itself, but given the latent racism in the US (and perhaps it is still bad here, I willing to be corrected), it does strike my as a cynical way for many, though certainly not all, to get the extra edge when pushing their career.

For the record, take a look here. The population of the US is made up to around 70pc of ‘non-hispanic whites’ and by about 17pc by non-hispanic blacks. Yet the the proportion of inmates in US prisons is around 42pc non-hispanic blacks and around 30pc non-hispanic whites.

I cannot - and don’t - believe that non-hispanic blacks are in any way ‘more criminal’ than non-hispanic whites. The disproportionate rate of unemployed blacks compared with unemployed whites - far higher numbers of blacks are jobless - and what we know about the relationship between unemployment and the temptation to steal etc might partly explain it, but it would seem to me that, on the face of it, you have a far higher chance of being banged up in jail in the US if you are black, whatever your behaviour.

I wonder how unemployed, sometimes homeless, often dirt-poor and disparaged blacks in the US feel when Beyonce et al play the ‘I’m black card’. I am not black, and I would especially interested to hear the views of on this matter who are black.
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Old 12-04-2014, 13:20
Suzy_Cat
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Perhaps Beyonce et al identify as black because they are black?

If you're talking about skin tone, and suggesting they could "pass" as Italian or whatever - which I don't actually think is true of Beyonce - that doesn't actually alter the fact that they have African-American parents, siblings and other relatives who I presume they love very much. Why should Beyonce pretend she isn't black?
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Old 12-04-2014, 14:19
pfgpowell
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Perhaps Beyonce et al identify as black because they are black?

If you're talking about skin tone, and suggesting they could "pass" as Italian or whatever - which I don't actually think is true of Beyonce - that doesn't actually alter the fact that they have African-American parents, siblings and other relatives who I presume they love very much. Why should Beyonce pretend she isn't black?
I take your point that being 'black' is not just down to skin tone, and that was, in its way, the very point I was making.
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Old 12-04-2014, 14:23
Vodka_Drinka
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Mariah Carey identities herself black when she's quite obviously anything but. Though funnily enough this started after she divorced her first husband and decided she wanted to be seen as an "edgy" R'n'B artist.
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Old 12-04-2014, 17:36
Alrightmate
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I think that there may be an element of truth to this.
The idea of the establishment promoting the idea that anyone of any race can achieve anything in America. Which may be a very idealistic view of things.

It's like cherry picking one or two success stories to promote the idea of equality and diversity which overshadows the thought that in society at large it's a very different picture.
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Old 12-04-2014, 19:32
pfgpowell
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Mariah Carey identities herself black when she's quite obviously anything but. Though funnily enough this started after she divorced her first husband and decided she wanted to be seen as an "edgy" R'n'B artist.
Mariah Carey? I never knew that. What's the connection except that she owns a couple of Bob Marley records?
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Old 12-04-2014, 19:41
misslibertine
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Mariah Carey? I never knew that. What's the connection except that she owns a couple of Bob Marley records?
Her father was African American and Venezuelan but her mother was white, so I suppose she's one quarter black.
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Old 12-04-2014, 22:12
Foox
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Mariah Carey identities herself black when she's quite obviously anything but. Though funnily enough this started after she divorced her first husband and decided she wanted to be seen as an "edgy" R'n'B artist.
What? she is mixed race her parents are black and white so she can identify as black if she wishes. both beyonces parents are black so im not sure i see the ops point and it just smacks of racism to me the usually excuse of "im not a racist but" sings out in the opening post.

I wonder how unemployed, sometimes homeless, often dirt-poor and disparaged blacks in the US feel when Beyonce et al play the ‘I’m black card’. I am not black, and I would especially interested to hear the views of on this matter who are black.
I dont know what being dirt poor has to do with it, her parents werent wealthy when they supported her wish to be a singer and at one point her home was taken and they lived in a motel.
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Old 12-04-2014, 22:28
shoot
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I think your comments have less to do with celebrity and more about race itself. Research the "one-drop rule", and how many people with dark features or black heritage identify as 'black' because it's how society collectively views them. Look at Obama, he's mixed race but considered a black man by society. It's something only really exclusive to individuals with black heritage, with people of, say, Latino or Italian heritage more widely considered 'white' in general society. Take Cameron Diaz. She's just as Latino as Obama is black, yet is generally considered a white woman.

It's a result of assimilation and how we exist in the world, and I don't believe it's unusual or tacky when people like Beyonce reference being black, since black people are still very much considered "other", at least in comparison to other non-white groups, and experience cultural difficulties and traumas that I imagine other non-whites don't.

Hopefully that's what you were getting at anyway, it was a bit hard to decipher some of what you meant...
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Old 12-04-2014, 22:31
shoot
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What? she is mixed race her parents are black and white so she can identify as black if she wishes. both beyonces parents are black so im not sure i see the ops point and it just smacks of racism to me the usually excuse of "im not a racist but" sings out in the opening post.
Agreed. No one can dictate or should judge how people self-identify themselves. And Mariah Carey is just as black as Obama or Halle Berry for instance, just because she has a much lighter skin tone doesn't mean she somehow isn't a black woman. Again, Google the one-drop rule, many mixed race individuals identify and believe in it, since culturally we inherently continue to follow it, even if it's completely unintentional on our parts.
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Old 12-04-2014, 22:50
Vodka_Drinka
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Mariah Carey is the lightest skinned black person I've ever seen in my life then....
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Old 12-04-2014, 23:26
incy wincy
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Why would people think Beyonce is 'playing the black card' when she is actually black?

I could understand it more if you'd used Mariah Carey because I was unaware she is part black. I thought she must be mixed race but I didn't think African-American was in the mix. But Beyonce is clearly black.

As for the one drop rule, I find that very difficult to understand. To me, it seems like the white Caucasian race is not an identity, but a blank canvas and any slight tinge of another ethnicity in the gene pool colours the canvas and therefore the person takes that identity. How far do you go back? If you had one great-great-grandparent who was black but all the others were white, do you identify as black? I was also under the impression it has racist undertones in origin, in that white is considered 'pure' and one drop therefore taints it and that person with a distant black ancestor now can't be considered white, so it confuses me why mixed race people would actually agree with the principle.
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Old 12-04-2014, 23:46
misslibertine
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Mariah Carey is the lightest skinned black person I've ever seen in my life then....
Have you seen Natasha Hamilton? Because her father is at least half black - http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/1927/50478787eb9.png
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Old 13-04-2014, 00:28
*Clem*
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Mariah says she's black according to how people see it in the US - the one drop rule. But she is mixed race, and a very white looking mixed race at that.

bossip.com/194250/mariah-carey-the-only-reason-i-am-considered-black-is-because-of-a-legal-technicality/
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Old 13-04-2014, 14:44
pfgpowell
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What? she is mixed race her parents are black and white so she can identify as black if she wishes. both beyonces parents are black so im not sure i see the ops point and it just smacks of racism to me the usually excuse of "im not a racist but" sings out in the opening post.

I object to that very strongly indeed. Did you even read the rest of my post? About blacks STILL being horribly discriminated against 150 years after the Civil War and almost 50 years after the civil rights movement go into is stride? Does that strike you as coming from 'a racist'? Give me strength.
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