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In the closet gay celebs! Who are they? (Part 2)


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Old 15-01-2013, 10:04
Scarlett Berry
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I'm sorry, but I laugh at comments like that.

How is he denying anything when he has said exactly that he identifies himself as a gay man, but is in a heterosexual relationship with his wife? Where is the denial?

The only thing he has not done is put a label on himself that he feels uncomfortable with. Similarly there are millions of men who have sex with other men but don't like to be referred to as 'gay'.Once we can free ourselves of these labels the better. That's when we can have complete equality.
Well now that's just plain confusing, to me at least
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Old 15-01-2013, 10:05
Cryolemon
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More like sexuality and love are far more complex than the labels suggest.
Pretty much.
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Old 15-01-2013, 10:18
aero63
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Well now that's just plain confusing, to me at least
True though. You find lots of 'straight' men on gay/swinging sites who want to have some form of gay sex but insist that they aren't gay or even bi.
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Old 15-01-2013, 11:04
jackbell
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Well now that's just plain confusing, to me at least
It's very simple. The only thing that is confusing is when you label something. If you remove the label then it is quite clear.
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Old 15-01-2013, 11:07
Scarlett Berry
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It's very simple. The only thing that is confusing is when you label something. If you remove the label then it is quite clear.
...confused:Ye God's I'm even more confuddled now. Enough already..best leave me in my ignorance.

So in your opinion, if a man wants to have sex with another man and we remove the label of "Gay",.. then it becomes quite clear...what exactly becomes clear. To me it's clear that they are having "Gay" sexual relations..Nothing wrong but that is what it is, in my world anyway
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Old 15-01-2013, 11:28
Elphie_Lives
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...confused:Ye God's I'm even more confuddled now. Enough already..best leave me in my ignorance.

So in your opinion, if a man wants to have sex with another man and we remove the label of "Gay",.. then it becomes quite clear...what exactly becomes clear. To me it's clear that they are having "Gay" sexual relations..Nothing wrong but that is what it is, in my world anyway
It doesn't make them gay though. Just a man who has sex with men.
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Old 15-01-2013, 11:44
Scarlett Berry
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It doesn't make them gay though. Just a man who has sex with men.
But isn't that gay Genuinely don't understand.
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Old 15-01-2013, 11:53
Cryolemon
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But isn't that gay Genuinely don't understand.
Not really no. It covers gay and bisexual, at least.
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Old 15-01-2013, 11:57
Scarlett Berry
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Not really no. It covers gay and bisexual, at least.
Oh ok, never thought of that
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Old 15-01-2013, 12:41
Stube
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Well now that's just plain confusing, to me at least
Have you ever heard of the term "on the down low"?

Here's an award-winning documentary about men who have sexual relations with other men but refuse to label themselves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY4dI3EyZKA
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Old 15-01-2013, 12:46
TonyOther
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True though. You find lots of 'straight' men on gay/swinging sites who want to have some form of gay sex but insist that they aren't gay or even bi.
Then they are only kidding themselves.
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Old 15-01-2013, 12:53
TonyOther
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It's very simple. The only thing that is confusing is when you label something. If you remove the label then it is quite clear.
This is the kind of pseudo-intelligent logic we are all too often treated to these days. The reason we 'label' - as in name something - is to distinguish it from from entities which aren't it. That's why we 'label' a chair 'a chair' so that when we are talking about 'a chair', people don't think we are talking about a table or the TV set or the car or a kettle or whatever else you want.

Of course sexuality is complex and not an either/or issue, but when we 'label' we are speaking broadly. So 'gay' is broadly naming chaps who like sex with other men rather than women etc. So whether men who identify themselves as 'straight' don't like to be 'labelled' gay or bi-sexual, tough: they are indulging in gay behaviour and would be classified as 'bi-sexual' whether they like it or not.
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Old 15-01-2013, 12:54
TonyOther
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It doesn't make them gay though. Just a man who has sex with men.
More gobbledegook.
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Old 15-01-2013, 12:55
aero63
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Then they are only kidding themselves.
I don't disagree
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Old 15-01-2013, 12:56
jackbell
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But isn't that gay Genuinely don't understand.
And you never will because you're trying to label people.

It's like a man who likes blonde women, you wouldn't call him 'blonde-sexual' because it would be meaningless. Even if you did, what if you saw him out with a brunette or red head? It's crazy if you think about it.

We only put labels on people so we can judge and we can categorise.

It shouldn't matter who we love or who we are attracted to - and if it really doesn't matter then why label them?
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Old 15-01-2013, 13:09
jackbell
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This is the kind of pseudo-intelligent logic we are all too often treated to these days. The reason we 'label' - as in name something - is to distinguish it from from entities which aren't it. That's why we 'label' a chair 'a chair' so that when we are talking about 'a chair', people don't think we are talking about a table or the TV set or the car or a kettle or whatever else you want.

Of course sexuality is complex and not an either/or issue, but when we 'label' we are speaking broadly. So 'gay' is broadly naming chaps who like sex with other men rather than women etc. So whether men who identify themselves as 'straight' don't like to be 'labelled' gay or bi-sexual, tough: they are indulging in gay behaviour and would be classified as 'bi-sexual' whether they like it or not.

A chair is a chair because it has one use. It was manufactured that way.

People are different because they have feelings and emotions. If someone, like myself, is 100% gay then that's great. But there are people whose sexuality is a lot more fluid. When we think of bisexuals, by the very name of the word, we think it's 50/50. But that isn't often the case.

Sexuality can be a individual as a fingerprint and I think it is wrong to categorise or label someone who is not happy with that label.

It is complex, it might appear confusing, but not to that person and that's the only person that counts. You can't pin anything on an individual just to make it easier to understand. You don't have to understand, you just have to accept.
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Old 15-01-2013, 13:54
TonyOther
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A chair is a chair because it has one use. It was manufactured that way.
You rather miss the point. I'm not talking about chairs but linguistics and the use of language.

People are different because they have feelings and emotions. If someone, like myself, is 100% gay then that's great. But there are people whose sexuality is a lot more fluid. When we think of bisexuals, by the very name of the word, we think it's 50/50. But that isn't often the case.

Sexuality can be a individual as a fingerprint and I think it is wrong to categorise or label someone who is not happy with that label.

It is complex, it might appear confusing, but not to that person and that's the only person that counts. You can't pin anything on an individual just to make it easier to understand. You don't have to understand, you just have to accept.
It doesn't matter how simple or complex something (in which I include 'people') is: if, as I pointed out above, we are talking about 'labels' (or names, if you like), we are talking about practicalities. And that is all it is: a means to make communication less ambiguous.

I agree with you that 'people have feelings and emotions' but in the context of labelling that's as relevant as to whether those people with 'feelings and emotions' prefer PT Tips to Tetleys i.e. it isn't. Yes, the closer you get to something, the more you will be able to distinguish it from others of its kind: up close enough each grain of sand is unique. But again that isn't the point.

So from afar some are gay, some bisexual and some straight. The more you look at an individual, the more variation you will find, of course, but when we hold a general discussion on anything, there must be general agreement as to terms of use - it would be pretty pointless if you used the word 'chair' to describe what I know as a 'table'.

What you are doing is confusing two different kinds of discourse. And furthermore how someone would like to be seen is also irrelevant. I should very much like to be seen has throroughly good-looking. The truth might be something different entirely (although it isn't, of course).
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Old 15-01-2013, 14:18
Stube
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I think you both have good points. Obviously the terms "gay", "bisexual" and "straight" are there to distinguish and define someone's orientation on a general, vague level.

But I can also understand why some would reject certain labels and that's mainly down to the negative connotations. Yes, a guy who has sex with other guys should technically fall into the category of "bisexual" or "gay". But it gets complicated if the guy only has sex with another guy occassionally and predominantly sleeps with women. Is he "straight" with gay tendancies? Or is he bisexual?

The problem is people have different definitions of "bisexual". Is bisexuality a balanced sexual preference towards both men and women or does it cover the entire field between 100% gay and 100% straight?

I think why many guys who predominantly or solely sleep with other men refuse to define themselves as gay is because they don't want to be associated with stereotypical gay culture. Once they put a label on themselves, they are instantly associated with a culture that doesn't define them accurately. It reminds me of something J.L. King said on Oprah once:

J.L. says there's a stigma that exists for gay men, and he doesn't see himself that way. "I don't want to get caught up in the whole gay culture because people look at gay people as being less than a man, that you are this sissy...this less than," he says. "The greatest taboo is to be black and homosexual, and I refuse to be labeled and classified as this character."

J.L. says men in the black community who come out and say, "I'm gay and proud," are treated differently. "All of a sudden I become: 'Oh, I want you to meet my gay friend, J.L. I want you to meet my gay brother, J.L. I want you to meet my gay father, J.L.,'" he says. "I don't want that."
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Old 15-01-2013, 15:48
jackbell
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I think you both have good points. Obviously the terms "gay", "bisexual" and "straight" are there to distinguish and define someone's orientation on a general, vague level.

But I can also understand why some would reject certain labels and that's mainly down to the negative connotations. Yes, a guy who has sex with other guys should technically fall into the category of "bisexual" or "gay". But it gets complicated if the guy only has sex with another guy occassionally and predominantly sleeps with women. Is he "straight" with gay tendancies? Or is he bisexual?

The problem is people have different definitions of "bisexual". Is bisexuality a balanced sexual preference towards both men and women or does it cover the entire field between 100% gay and 100% straight?

I think why many guys who predominantly or solely sleep with other men refuse to define themselves as gay is because they don't want to be associated with stereotypical gay culture. Once they put a label on themselves, they are instantly associated with a culture that doesn't define them accurately.
This is close to what I'm suggesting. Thanks for clarifying.

I have an identity I'm okay with, but there are others that feel a general label - gay, straight, bisexual - doesn't really serve them well. That's why we have other labels - MWSWM is one of them - but these are just more labels. And if you have to explain that label doesn't it make it worthless?

Anyway, I'll say no more as we're OT, but I'm not confused, just trying to demystify some sexualities and trying to explain why some labelling can be wrong.
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Old 15-01-2013, 19:00
Scarlett Berry
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And you never will because you're trying to label people.

It's like a man who likes blonde women, you wouldn't call him 'blonde-sexual' because it would be meaningless. Even if you did, what if you saw him out with a brunette or red head? It's crazy if you think about it.

We only put labels on people so we can judge and we can categorise.

It shouldn't matter who we love or who we are attracted to - and if it really doesn't matter then why label them?
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong(no doubt you will) but I feel you are being patronizing towards me.(Very in fact!) The bottom line for me has always been, if you sleep/ have sexual relations with a member of the opposite gender, you are hetrosexual, If you have relations with the same sex you are gay. For me it's not being judgemental, it is what it is.

What is all your talk about labelling..surely being called a woman is labelling, being called a child is labelling..what's wrong with that - what is your problem with things being called what they are. Oh and I would just like to clarify I have no problem whatsoever who anyone chooses to love as long as it is between two consenting adults.

My best friend in the whole word is a gay man who always says he has endured enough suffering over the years not to be out an proud. I don't think he has any problem with me saying he is a proud gay man. "Labelling" as you put it just leaves me totally confused when all I am doing is calling a person what they choose to be called.
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Old 15-01-2013, 19:17
Lilaeth
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He's also said



More like he's a bisexual and in denial about it.
No, he sounds just like my ex, with whom I had a fantastic sex life (I am female) but who described himself as gay, because he was attracted to men.
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Old 15-01-2013, 19:33
Airborae
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Congrats to Jodie Foster by the way. Wonderful personality.
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Old 15-01-2013, 19:38
Saltydog1955
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I'm sorry, but I laugh at comments like that.

How is he denying anything when he has said exactly that he identifies himself as a gay man, but is in a heterosexual relationship with his wife? Where is the denial?

The only thing he has not done is put a label on himself that he feels uncomfortable with. Similarly there are millions of men who have sex with other men but don't like to be referred to as 'gay'.

Once we can free ourselves of these labels the better. That's when we can have complete equality.
It just sounds very odd to me. Only my opinion.

I'm with Charlotte York - 'Pick a side and stay there'.
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Old 15-01-2013, 21:41
Tulip19
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It just sounds very odd to me. Only my opinion.

I'm with Charlotte York - 'Pick a side and stay there'.
Tell that to the bisexuals

(but don't. Because no)
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Old 15-01-2013, 23:35
Stube
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Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong(no doubt you will) but I feel you are being patronizing towards me.(Very in fact!) The bottom line for me has always been, if you sleep/ have sexual relations with a member of the opposite gender, you are hetrosexual, If you have relations with the same sex you are gay. For me it's not being judgemental, it is what it is.

What is all your talk about labelling..surely being called a woman is labelling, being called a child is labelling..what's wrong with that - what is your problem with things being called what they are. Oh and I would just like to clarify I have no problem whatsoever who anyone chooses to love as long as it is between two consenting adults.

My best friend in the whole word is a gay man who always says he has endured enough suffering over the years not to be out an proud. I don't think he has any problem with me saying he is a proud gay man. "Labelling" as you put it just leaves me totally confused when all I am doing is calling a person what they choose to be called.
I can see where you're going with this and I sort of agree with you but the factor that differentiates sexuality from gender, age and any other label is the fact that it's subjective and harder to distinguish.

Also, as jackbell says, labelling is arguably detrimental to the whole idea of equality. But, at the same time, I can understand why they are necessary.
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