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Why did Jahmene change the lyrics from 'him' to 'her'?
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alfa
28-10-2012
Originally Posted by 1fab:
“It would have sounded more beautiful to me if he had sung the original lyrics, as they were meant to be, as a tribute to Don Mclean. It didn't make much sense with the gender change.”

The song was written by a guy, Norman Gimbel, from a brief for a song to be sung by a guy in a musical that was never made. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with Don McLean. The original title (in the brief) was 'Killing me softly with his blues.’

This is the first time anyone has made it gender-specific, to my knowledge. Bound to attract attention, you would think but they did do the same stupid thing to an Aretha standard last week.
InsomniacParade
28-10-2012
Originally Posted by Hibernian88:
“Do you really think homophobic people would watch the X-Factor...?”

Probably but it is more that the producers think that they do. Hence why the only contestants who are allowed to be open about their homosexuality are the joke acts whereas others like "Jaymi" from Union J get the "All the girls love you" arc rammed down everyone's throats.
neorich
28-10-2012
Originally Posted by Gotham:
“Why's that out of interest?”

Well, I won't come out with the sort of stock stereotypical comment like I heard when I asked the same question about someone thinking Chris Maloney was gay..i.e. "because he's very camp."....as I don't think in those terms and know many gay men who aren't camp in the slightest.

Just call it "gaydar," .....

But, seriously, I was very interested to hear him use the word "person," a number of times when he was talking about not having had a relationship..with some people I've met that's a code.

It's just a hunch and I may be totally wrong, in the end, who cares, I'm sure he doesn't.

Rich.
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plankenheimer
28-10-2012
Originally Posted by neorich:
“Well, I won't come out with the sort of stock stereotypical comment like I heard when I asked the same question about someone thinking Chris Maloney was gay..i.e. "because he's very camp."....as I don't think in those terms and know many gay men who aren't camp in the slightest.

Just call it "gaydar," .....

But, seriously, I was very interested to hear him use the word "person," a number of times when he was talking about not having had a relationship..with some people I've met that's a code.

It's just a hunch and I may be totally wrong, in the end, who cares, I'm sure he doesn't.

Rich.
x”

You are totally wrong . He has mentioned finding the right woman numerous times .
And I know him so I know he is straight
neorich
28-10-2012
A number of classic songs have had their lyrics changed according to the gender of the person singing it.

A couple of examples:

"Ticket To Ride," written by Lennon McCarteny, adapted by "The Carpenters."

"Love Will Keep Us Together," written by Neil Sedaka..adapted by "The Captain and Tenille."

I can't see what all the fuss is about..

As far as gender in songs, of course, some gay artists like George Michael have shifted from the opposite sex, to neutral, to the same sex..

But I can see no reason why a gay man/woman should need to keep the lyrics the same, anymore than a gay actor should only play gay roles.

And, in some songs, a role is being played..

Rich.
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Oldnjaded
28-10-2012
Originally Posted by alfa:
“The song was written by a guy, Norman Gimbel, from a brief for a song to be sung by a guy in a musical that was never made. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with Don McLean. The original title (in the brief) was 'Killing me softly with his blues.’

This is the first time anyone has made it gender-specific, to my knowledge. Bound to attract attention, you would think but they did do the same stupid thing to an Aretha standard last week.”

Not true, it was inspired by Lori Lieberman's feelings when listening to Don McLean, and it was she who first recorded it after Gimbel wrote the song, based on her account. See this link.

neorich
28-10-2012
Originally Posted by plankenheimer:
“You are totally wrong . He has mentioned finding the right woman numerous times .
And I know him so I know he is straight”

He has also mentioned finding the "right person."

As for "knowing," someone providing me with "proof," of a person's sexuality..I'd say you're on pretty dodgy territory there..

I've "known," a number of people who've sworn they were str8 for years and revealed their sexuality years down the line..

Many gay men and women hide their sexuality to even their closest friends and families..and people who "know" them would swear blind that they're str8.....many people thought they "knew," me and thought I was str8 before I came out and it still comes as a shock to new people I meet when I tell them.

I've never said I know he's gay..
I think he is..and the fact that you "know," him hasn't changed my mind.

However, in the end, like I said, who cares?

Rich.
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InsomniacParade
28-10-2012
Originally Posted by neorich:
“But I can see no reason why a gay man/woman should need to keep the lyrics the same, anymore than a gay actor should only play gay roles.

And, in some songs, a role is being played..

Rich.
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And I see no reason to change the gender of a lyric when the song is not about loving the person whose gender you are changing. He would not have been playing a gay role had he kept the gender the same.

It would be like changing the lyrics of 'When Children Rule the World' to 'When Adults Rule the World' because you are not a peadophile. It makes no sense at all.
*Jupiter*
28-10-2012
This isn't about Jahmene being gay or not. This is about x factors gay panic. There are songs that make more sense genderchanged like "i kissed a girl" but mostly they should let genderpronouns stay their way. Mostly genderchanging ends with Rihanna / Lazy decorateur duett or Craig Colton Paparazzi.
grimtales1
28-10-2012
Originally Posted by WoahOh:
“The song was supposedly originally about hearing Don McLean sing. Jahmene has said that Whitney Houston was very important to him, so maybe he's just fitting it to a singer that moves him in the same way as the writer was moved by McLean.

To the average listener it's probably just like a love song and it's sensible to make it gender appropriate for that reason too.

More importantly, who gives a...”

That's a good point, I hadnt realised that. The meaning behind the song isnt really changed TBH.
neorich
28-10-2012
Originally Posted by InsomniacParade:
“And I see no reason to change the gender of a lyric when the song is not about loving the person whose gender you are changing. He would not have been playing a gay role had he kept the gender the same.”

Yep, given that the song refers to a singer, not a lover, that's entirely valid IMO..

On the other hand, there's no reason why the singer in the song couldn't be a woman either, though I suspect that wasn't the motive behind the change..

Rich.
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Oldnjaded
28-10-2012
Originally Posted by Daemon666:
“Why would your default position be that he is heterosexual? He appears effeminate to me at first glance and the purity ring is an ideal way to avoid having to declare your sexuality. Wouldn't surprise me at all to discover he was gay but for the purposes of a female fan base he may have been advised that it wouldn't be in his best interests to do so now.”

Because statistically speaking, the mathematical odds of his being gay are tiny. (The last ONS survey actually put it at 1% gay - even if it's 10 times that number, it's just 10%). Of course heterosexuality is the 'default position'. Do the math.
alcockell
28-10-2012
Originally Posted by neorich:
“A number of classic songs have had their lyrics changed according to the gender of the person singing it.

A couple of examples:

"Ticket To Ride," written by Lennon McCarteny, adapted by "The Carpenters."

"Love Will Keep Us Together," written by Neil Sedaka..adapted by "The Captain and Tenille."

I can't see what all the fuss is about..

As far as gender in songs, of course, some gay artists like George Michael have shifted from the opposite sex, to neutral, to the same sex..

But I can see no reason why a gay man/woman should need to keep the lyrics the same, anymore than a gay actor should only play gay roles.

And, in some songs, a role is being played..

Rich.
x”

Add to those the perspective flips that get executed in songs like Then He Kissed Me (original by Ronettes), to Then I Kissed Her (Beach Boys).
neorich
28-10-2012
Originally Posted by alcockell:
“Add to those the perspective flips that get executed in songs like Then He Kissed Me (original by Ronettes), to Then I Kissed Her (Beach Boys).”

Agreed, but the point has been made and having looked at the lyrics of this particular song, I think I was up a blind alley when I gave my examples..

There's nothing in the song to suggest that the singer is referring to a lover, so I take on board that, for that reason, there's no real need to change the lyrics....though I understand that some people would make the same mistake I have.

It's one of the thousands of songs that you might hear any number of times in a lifetime and yet not totally get the lyrics..

Rich.
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ribtickle
28-10-2012
As other posters have already pointed out, the lyrics are about being floored by a man singing and playing a song, someone who makes you stop and stare because it's as if they are singing about your life. You die inside because of the recognition:

Strumming my pain with his fingers
Singing my life with his words
Killing me softy with his song.....


James has that effect on some of us, when he's firing on all cylinders.

I've heard many a male version of Killing Me Softly, but nobody had ever changed the gender before. To do so turned the song into a confusing mess, it didn't sound natural to the song - it didn't flow to anyone who's familiar with it, and instead all it did was enforce the singer's supposed heterosexuality by means of a lyrical contrivance and made the song's structure sound slightly disjointed.

It was nice to hear Jahmene sing a song straight without too much of the heliumboy vocalising of which he has almost no control over, but he should understand that as good as he is this song was bigger than him, more famous that he'll ever be, and you don't mess with the greats.
neorich
28-10-2012
Originally Posted by ribtickle:
“ I've heard many a male version of Killing Me Softly, but nobody had ever changed the gender before. To do so turned the song into a confusing mess, it didn't sound natural to the song - it didn't flow to anyone who's familiar with it, and instead all it did was enforce the singer's supposed heterosexuality by means of a lyrical contrivance and made the song's structure sound slightly disjointed.

It was nice to hear Jahmene sing a song straight without too much of the heliumboy vocalising of which he has almost no control over, but he should understand that as good as he is this song was bigger than him, more famous that he'll ever be, and you don't mess with the greats.”

That last comment, I agree with wholeheartedly, you need to approach some songs with a massive amount of respect, both lyrically and musically..

And, when you read/hear the lyrics..the "s," on the end of "his," fits in so beautifully with all the others in there,

Rich.
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downtonfan
28-10-2012
Originally Posted by troyston:
“So pathetic. He's not gay.”

It's not an insult to be called gay
Hassaan13
28-10-2012
Originally Posted by downtonfan:
“It's not an insult to be called gay”

For those who are. But I believe it is an insult to call someone gay if they are clearly not.
Sheechiibii
28-10-2012
Originally Posted by Hassaan13:
“For those who are. But I believe it is an insult to call someone gay if they are clearly not.”

How is that insulting? Is it insulting to assume someone is straight if they're not? It's a mistake, nothing to be insulted over.
neorich
28-10-2012
Originally Posted by Hassaan13:
“For those who are. But I believe it is an insult to call someone gay if they are clearly not.”

No it's not and who's to say he's "clearly not?"

It's not an insult to think someone's str8, so why should it be an insult the other way round?

If I called someone white, when they're clearly black,or vice-versa.. then I suppose that would be bizarre.

But, sexual orientation isn't as obvious and clear cut as many people still like to think it is.

Rich.
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SillyBillyGoat
28-10-2012
And how, may I ask, do you know OP? I expect your answer to be something more substantial than tired stereotypes.
neorich
28-10-2012
Originally Posted by SillyBillyGoat:
“And how, may I ask, do you know OP? I expect your answer to be something more substantial than tired stereotypes. ”

Well, the time I asked that question when someone said Chris was "obviously," gay..I was answered with something like "he's very camp."

That settles it then, it's the clincher.



Rich.
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plankenheimer
28-10-2012
Originally Posted by neorich:
“No it's not and who's to say he's "clearly not?"

It's not an insult to think someone's str8, so why should it be an insult the other way round?

If I called someone white, when they're clearly black,or vice-versa.. then I suppose that would be bizarre.

But, sexual orientation isn't as obvious and clear cut as many people still like to think it is.

Rich.
x”

I can say he's clearly not as i know him very well
Oldnjaded
28-10-2012
Originally Posted by plankenheimer:
“I can say he's clearly not as i know him very well ”

Thanks for that. I never thought for a second that he was gay anyway, but let's hope that your statement, based on personal knowledge, will put an end to the pointless and interminable gossip on DS about whether he is or not, as if it matters.
oxygenjj
28-10-2012
Originally Posted by plankenheimer:
“I can say he's clearly not as i know him very well ”

I know your telling the truth
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