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Nexus or Mini
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d123
29-10-2012
Originally Posted by glagys:
“really confused now

see that Nexus 7 32GB is out soon
so should i go for that or the
iPad mini ”

There is a market and reason to buy for both, if you want cheap, and don't mind it being entirely built from plastic to bring it to market cheap, consider the Nexus.

But, as an ex Nexus 7 owner, either try one first, or buy from somewhere that allows no hassle returns, specifically make sure you are happy with typing on the Nexus, as I found text input and copy/paste/edit to be awful. I even used some of the £15 to buy all the aftermarket keyboards, all were equally bad.

As someone who types a lot on the device, and does a lot of text editing while commuting, the Nexus 7 was truly bad, chasing the 2 little blue triangles around to select text was an exercise in frustration.

I sold the Nexus 7 after about 3 weeks, and went back to full size iPad and have now ordered a Mini. I just hope that they have maintained the excellent typing ability and text editing in the scale down.

Then there is the higher quality materials and build of the iPad.

Just like there is a market for the Kia and the Chevrolet, as well as the BMW and Mercedes in the car market, so there is space for the Nexus7 and iPad in the tech market.
Stuart_h
29-10-2012
Originally Posted by d123:
“There is a market and reason to buy for both, if you want cheap, and don't mind it being entirely built from plastic to bring it to market cheap, consider the Nexus.

But, as an ex Nexus 7 owner, either try one first, or buy from somewhere that allows no hassle returns, specifically make sure you are happy with typing on the Nexus, as I found text input and copy/paste/edit to be awful. I even used some of the £15 to buy all the aftermarket keyboards, all were equally bad.

As someone who types a lot on the device, and does a lot of text editing while commuting, the Nexus 7 was truly bad, chasing the 2 little blue triangles around to select text was an exercise in frustration.

I sold the Nexus 7 after about 3 weeks, and went back to full size iPad and have now ordered a Mini. I just hope that they have maintained the excellent typing ability and text editing in the scale down.

Then there is the higher quality materials and build of the iPad.

Just like there is a market for the Kia and the Chevrolet, as well as the BMW and Mercedes in the car market, so there is space for the Nexus7 and iPad in the tech market.”

oh here we go again .... paying for "quality"

last years tech at twice the price but built in a death-trap factory for peanuts.

You are not paying for better build or quality. Every tech and company has some issues with build as they all try to make things as cheap as possible. Otherwise you wouldnt be hearing stories of iPhone 5's being scratched in the box !

If you didnt like typing on the Nexus 7 then fine - but you will probably find thats down to the size/form factor rather than the OS.

.... and the Nexus isnt built 'entirely of plastic' in the same way the iPad isnt built entirely of metal. I love the feel of the RUBBER back of the Nexus 7 - it provides a good grip - however like most tablet and phone owners I cover the back with a protective case therefore making it pretty meaningless what the back is made of anyway
d123
29-10-2012
Originally Posted by Stuart_h:
“oh here we go again .... paying for "quality"

last years tech at twice the price but built in a death-trap factory for peanuts.”

What is this "death-trap factory" story got to do with build quality?

Originally Posted by Stuart_h:
“If you didnt like typing on the Nexus 7 then fine - but you will probably find thats down to the size/form factor rather than the OS.”

No, it is down to a weakness in the UI, and the fact that Apple have a patent on how the iOS keyboard works.

To explain
Quote:
“Automatic Typing Help

Although you don't see it with you eyes, the size of the keys on the iPad keyboard are changing all the time. That is, the software enlarges the 'landing area' of certain keys based on probability.

For example, supposed you type 'tim'. The iPad knows that no word begins 'timw' or 'timr' and so, invisibly, it enlarges the 'landing area' of the 'e' key, which greatly diminishes your chances of making a typing error.”

Originally Posted by Stuart_h:
“.... and the Nexus isnt built 'entirely of plastic' in the same way the iPad isnt built entirely of metal. I love the feel of the RUBBER back of the Nexus 7 :”

You are funny , ok the nexus 7 is entirely made out of cheap plastic and that extremely hard and durable substance called rubber

LOL

Rubber, one step down from titanium for hardness and build precision .
paulbrock
29-10-2012
Originally Posted by d123:
“You are funny , ok the nexus 7 is entirely made out of cheap plastic and that extremely hard and durable substance called rubber

LOL

Rubber, one step down from titanium for hardness and build precision .”

Quite handy when you drop it though, eh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKaPmrXKfO0
paulbrock
29-10-2012
Originally Posted by d123:
“No, it is down to a weakness in the UI, and the fact that Apple have a patent on how the iOS keyboard works.”

That is quite neat. But Swiftkey, (and if rumours are true the 4.2 stock keyboard) will just predict the entire word for you.

Sounds more like something that would be an issue on a 4" screen though, not a 7" screen.
d123
29-10-2012
Originally Posted by paulbrock:
“That is quite neat. But Swiftkey, (and if rumours are true the 4.2 stock keyboard) will just predict the entire word for you.

Sounds more like something that would be an issue on a 4" screen though, not a 7" screen.”

I bought Swiftkey, and didn't notice a huge improvement, it was better than the standard keyboard, but was still a lot more imprecise compared to the iOS keyboard.

Android really do need a complete rethink on text select/edit though. It's a very poor system at present.
paulbrock
29-10-2012
Originally Posted by d123:
“Android really do need a complete rethink on text select/edit though. It's a very poor system at present.”

Obviously you're entitled to your opinion, but its not a common criticism. Maybe I'm used to it, but just tried again to make sure; nexus 7, portrait mode, swiftkey keyboard, tapped a-z in sequence at a decent speed, no mistakes. Maybe I have smaller fingers

Its the same keyboard I use on my S2 though, and I don't recall it being a problem there either.

There is a setting on swiftkey for typing styles - perhaps changing from precise typist to rapid typist might have helped you, particularly if you're used to the ipad keyboard.
Stuart_h
29-10-2012
Originally Posted by d123:
“What is this "death-trap factory" story got to do with build quality?”

pay peanuts in a foxconn factory and expect high build quality ?
scratches out of the box, light bleed, screen problems.
All manufacturers have similar reports at new product release time but i think its becoming obvious that Apple no longer maintain that 'premium quality' stance that (admittedly) they may have had a few years back.

Originally Posted by d123:
“No, it is down to a weakness in the UI, and the fact that Apple have a patent on how the iOS keyboard works.”

No, its down to your personal preference as to how you would like that feature to work

Originally Posted by d123:
“You are funny , ok the nexus 7 is entirely made out of cheap plastic and that extremely hard and durable substance called rubber ”

My point was that the back is made of rubber as opposed to the metal back of the iPad mini ? the components and screen will be of similar materials. So we are just talking the back, right ? If so there are numerous pros and cons. The rubcber back maintains more grip. The rubber back will provide a degree of flexibility if dropped. The rubber back IS probably cheaper.

Im not sure where you get this idea that the whole unit is just made of 'cheaper materials' though ? If the Nexus was purely a 'budget' exercise they would have left out the NFC chip, and the GPS chip ..... but no it was the 'Premium' brand that left those out so they could 'afford' to add a metal back ?


Originally Posted by d123:
“ build precision .”

build precision ? LOL ... you're so funny
d123
29-10-2012
Originally Posted by paulbrock:
“Its the same keyboard I use on my S2 though, and I don't recall it being a problem there either.
”

Funnily enough, I don't have quite the same aggravation on my S2 either.

I put it down to the fact I don't type as much on the S2, and definitely don't do text editing on it.
d123
29-10-2012
Originally Posted by Stuart_h:
“pay peanuts in a foxconn factory and expect high build quality ? ”

The iPad Mini isn't even made in China, so slight fail on your part there


Originally Posted by Stuart_h:
“build precision ? LOL ... you're so funny ”

Yes, build precision, as in working with aluminium, which takes far more precise engineering than plastic mouldings.

A plastic manufacturing machine could make ice cream tubs just as easily as Nexus 7 components.

And built down to a budget, yes, unlike most Android tabs, the rear camera and SD slot were both omitted from the Nexus 7, the reason according to Asus, was cost.
paulbrock
29-10-2012
Originally Posted by d123:
“And built down to a budget, yes, unlike most Android tabs, the rear camera and SD slot were both omitted from the Nexus 7, the reason according to Asus, was cost.”

Nexus devices never have SD slots. Nowt to do with cost. Camera yes, but my views on tablet cameras are expressed elsewhere.
Stuart_h
29-10-2012
where did i mention China ? :yawn:

is the iPad mini not made in a Foxconn factory then ?

So ... Some of the ASUS transformer range use a metal back. Does that immediately make those 'Apple Quality' then ?

There is a subtle difference with 'keeping costs down' to 'making a poor quality unit'. Thats pretty basic business.

I really find it strange how people can try and justify such a huge price hike for the mini over, say, the Nexus 7, the playbook or the Kindle Fire.

I think if Apple had placed it in the same price band as the others they could have cleaned up the market. From a 'tech' perspective there is nothing that justifies the extra price over the other products - in many ways quite the opposite.
Stilian
29-10-2012
Oh my... this dude really nailed it with this iPad mini review http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM7p_rhVC7A it seems like he really hates his Galaxy Nexus. I myself am not a big fan of the iPad but with the iPad mini they really lost me, I can't wait for the new Windows 8 tablets invasion.
john176bramley
29-10-2012
Originally Posted by d123:
“The iPad Mini isn't even made in China, so slight fail on your part there




Yes, build precision, as in working with aluminium, which takes far more precise engineering than plastic mouldings.

A plastic manufacturing machine could make ice cream tubs just as easily as Nexus 7 components.

And built down to a budget, yes, unlike most Android tabs, the rear camera and SD slot were both omitted from the Nexus 7, the reason according to Asus, was cost.”

I've got a tablet with an aluminium back, it cost just over £100.
Stuart_h
29-10-2012
Originally Posted by Stilian:
“Oh my... this dude really nailed it with this iPad mini review http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM7p_rhVC7A it seems like he really hates his Galaxy Nexus. I myself am not a big fan of the iPad but with the iPad mini they really lost me, I can't wait for the new Windows 8 tablets invasion.”

cant view the link (at work) but im assuming its bad

i have just installed windows 8 on one of my machines at home (an all-in-one touchscreen jobby) and im actually quite impressed. Im not sure if id bother with a cut-down windows tab but a fully functional win 8 on a tab seems like a decent option

I certainly think that it could signal the end of standard laptops/netbooks.
paulbrock
29-10-2012
Originally Posted by john176bramley:
“I've got a tablet with an aluminium back, it cost just over £100.”

I do wonder why people swallow this nonsense from Apple presentations that they're somehow made in completely different ways to to their competitors.
Stuart_h
29-10-2012
Originally Posted by john176bramley:
“I've got a tablet with an aluminium back, it cost just over £100.”

ahhhh. but maybe its not 'precision' aluminium ....
Stilian
29-10-2012
Originally Posted by Stuart_h:
“cant view the link (at work) but im assuming its bad

i have just installed windows 8 on one of my machines at home (an all-in-one touchscreen jobby) and im actually quite impressed. Im not sure if id bother with a cut-down windows tab but a fully functional win 8 on a tab seems like a decent option

I certainly think that it could signal the end of standard laptops/netbooks.”

Tablets have improved significantly but they are still far from laptop functionality. I have my huge smartphone on Jelly Bean and it is good but I doubt it would be that appealing on a tablet, especially if compared to a Windows 8 device.
Stuart_h
29-10-2012
Originally Posted by Stilian:
“Tablets have improved significantly but they are still far from laptop functionality. I have my huge smartphone on Jelly Bean and it is good but I doubt it would be that appealing on a tablet, especially if compared to a Windows 8 device.”

agreed but my point was that a 'Pro' windows 8 tablet with a keyboard dock makes the idea of a separate laptop/netbook a bit pointless.
d123
29-10-2012
Originally Posted by Stuart_h:
“where did i mention China ? :yawn:

is the iPad mini not made in a Foxconn factory then ?
”

If you we're alluding to Foxconn, I hope you are avoiding all the companies involved with your "death-trap factories".


Major customers of Foxconn currently include:
Acer Inc.
Amazon.com
Apple Inc.
Cisco
Dell
Hewlett-Packard
Intel
Microsoft
Motorola Mobility
Nintendo
Nokia
Samsung Electronics
Sony
Toshiba
Vizio

I suggest to avoid the avoid the "death-trap factories" you shut down your PC, switch off your phone and go home and sit in a darkened room (No TV either, odds are its either Foxconn, or Foxconn components in there)

PS your little about turn, that you weren't referring to China, then why did you state "built for peanuts"? The minimum wage in the factory producing the iPad Mini is $2.84 an hour, higher than most of Eastern Europe.
Stuart_h
29-10-2012
Originally Posted by d123:
“If you we're alluding to Foxconn, I hope you are avoiding all the companies involved with your "death-trap factories".


Major customers of Foxconn currently include:
Acer Inc.
Amazon.com
Apple Inc.
Cisco
Dell
Hewlett-Packard
Intel
Microsoft
Motorola Mobility
Nintendo
Nokia
Samsung Electronics
Sony
Toshiba
Vizio

I suggest to avoid the avoid the "death-trap factories" you shut down your PC, switch off your phone and go home and sit in a darkened room (No TV either, odds are its either Foxconn, or Foxconn components in there)

PS your little about turn, that you weren't referring to China, then why did you state "built for peanuts"? The minimum wage in the factory producing the iPad Mini is $2.84 an hour, higher than most of Eastern Europe.”

not Asus then ?

remember it was you that stated that build quality was better than the competition yet they use the same factory as Samsung !? (im no Samsung fanboy either btw)

is $2.84 a good wage then ? does it imply higher quality employees than any other tech company ? what has the wage comparision with 'most of Eastern Europe' have to do with anything ??

Are you really suggesting that the higher cost of the iPad mini is down to increased quality rather than larger profit margin ?? thats the fundamental question here surely ?
d123
29-10-2012
Originally Posted by Stuart_h:
“not Asus then ? ”

No, they have their own Chinese factories that manufacture the Nexus 7

Originally Posted by Stuart_h:
“remember it was you that stated that build quality was better than the competition yet they use the same factory as Samsung !? (im no Samsung fanboy either btw)”

Not the same factory, just the same company, Foxconn is the biggest private sector employer in China, and has a large number of factories. Don't forget that the end user company has significant input into materials, it was actually Samsung that has had the most allegations of child labour in China, of all the Foxconn clients (it was at non Foxconn facilities).

Originally Posted by Stuart_h:
“is $2.84 a good wage then ? does it imply higher quality employees than any other tech company ? what has the wage comparision with 'most of Eastern Europe' have to do with anything ??”

Pretty good wage for a developing country (the Mini is actually being manufactured in Brazil)

Originally Posted by Stuart_h:
“Are you really suggesting that the higher cost of the iPad mini is down to increased quality rather than larger profit margin ?? thats the fundamental question here surely ?”

In part yes, while there is undeniably a premium for the Apple on the back, there is a lot of expense in the use of aluminium bodies, both from an engineering point of view as well as QC, look at the number of bad QC examples of the iPhone 5 getting out, making a "unibody" single piece of metal case will always push costs, as will the newer technology in screen lamination and then getting the screen and case to match together precisely (Asus struggled to avoid the "lifting LCD screen" on the 7, even with less critical plastic cases to fit the screens into.
Stuart_h
29-10-2012
Originally Posted by d123:
“No, they have their own Chinese factories that manufacture the Nexus 7



Not the same factory, just the same company, Foxconn is the biggest private sector employer in China, and has a large number of factories. Don't forget that the end user company has significant input into materials, it was actually Samsung that has had the most allegations of child labour in China, of all the Foxconn clients (it was at non Foxconn facilities).



Pretty good wage for a developing country (the Mini is actually being manufactured in Brazil)



In part yes, while there is undeniably a premium for the Apple on the back, there is a lot of expense in the use of aluminium bodies, both from an engineering point of view as well as QC, look at the number of bad QC examples of the iPhone 5 getting out, making a "unibody" single piece of metal case will always push costs, as will the newer technology in screen lamination and then getting the screen and case to match together precisely (Asus struggled to avoid the "lifting LCD screen" on the 7, even with less critical plastic cases to fit the screens into.”

so are we comparing the Nexus 7 to the iPhone 5 ?
Does the mini use screen lamination ??

A £199 tablet vs a small £500 plus phone ???? My Nexus 7 doesnt have a 'lifting screen' by the way .....

if so didnt the high-tech method of producing the iPhone 5 fail to prevent scratches, light bleeds etc ?

My simple question is this. How much of the extra price of an iPad mini goes into making a 'premium product' and how much of it is just extra profit for Apple (which is already the richest company in the world). Neither of us can answer this exactly but Im guessing that, based on the lower spec of the iPad mini, Apple make way more profit per unit on the iPad mini than is made on the Nexus 7
paulbrock
29-10-2012
Originally Posted by Stuart_h:
“My simple question is this. How much of the extra price of an iPad mini goes into making a 'premium product' and how much of it is just extra profit for Apple (which is already the richest company in the world).”

I've seen some discussions where applefans point to Apple's higher profit margins as a *positive*. e.g. "Yes Samsung sell more phones, but Apple's margins are better." Its as though they're pleased to pay more.
NaturalDancer
29-10-2012
There's a comparison here http://www.techradar.com/reviews/pc-...1096514/review It says Ipad Mini Review but if you scroll down a little they compare it to the Nexus
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