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Old 31-10-2012, 10:19
daveyboy7472
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The superb run of stories continues with this 2-Parter featuring the return and debut of the Cybermen to the New Series.

I always have mixed views over these new Cybermen. I don't see why the original Mondas Cybermen couldn't have returned with a radical new design rather than start from scratch. Having said that, I do like the new design and all the sounds of them marching, I even like the fact that they are even more emotionless than those in the Classic series but I do miss the old Classic Design. Even though this is a contradiction in terms I loved the emotionless 'personalities' of the old shows where the CyberLeader had his catchphrase like excellent and did some serious fist clenching!

There is none of that with these new Cybermen but I do like the fact that the process of conversion was shown more extensively than ever before and also the effects of them once their emotional inhibitors have been removed. Sally Field was an excellent concept, someone who was once a woman about to get married. That was a really good scene.

I like all the nods to The Invasion with International Electromatics and Tomb Of The Cybermen with the purely robotic Cyberman Mickey and Jake discover.

Marcus Lumic was superbly played by Roger Llloyd pack, showing he was than capable of doing serious roles away from Only Fools And Horses. Again, there is a lovely concept here that The Doctor points out to him after his upgrade that the human race would just stall after Cyberconversion and progress is what makes them. However, I never saw the point of him as the Cybercontroller sitting down after an upgrade, surely the Cybermen have no need to sit?!!!!

Away from the Cybermen, I liked all the parallel world stuff. The Zeppelins and all the stuff with daily downloads into people's heads is an interesting concept which you could actually see happening considering the rate of progress at the moment. What I also find amusing watching this is that despite all this technology, Rose has an old style Nokia mobile phone from 2006, it just shows how far they developed in just 7 years!

The return of Pete Tyler was also a welcome addition, loved all the musical cues from Father's Day. It was interesting to see a world where Pete doesn't die, he's rich from his dodgy dealings and is in the last throes of his marriage and Rose is in fact a dog! Again, though we didn't know it, Jackie's death in the parallel world is a neat setup for the finale, I thought it was well thought out.

As for The Doctor and Rose, well, The Doctor almost takes a back seat in the first episode with all the other events going on. There's not much of the romantic stuff in this one as the story takes precedence but the focus returns to Rose and her parallel parents which I liked. The party stuff was great and I daresay Tennant in a tuxedo appealed to the Ladies but Rose looked quite hot in a maid's outfit as well.......

The Cybermen quite literally gatecrash the party and the cliffhanger was a really good one, leaving you wondering exactly how The Doctor and co would survive deletion at the Cybermen's hands. The resolution was a slight cop-out but don't suppose there was any other way of doing it.

The second episode was equally as action packed. Mrs Moore was yet another character we grew to like who was killed off. The stuff with the numbers on the mobile phone to cancel out the emotional inhibitor was a tad far-fetched, but the stuff on the ladder with the Cyber controller was good.

Also enjoyed the very last scenes where Mickey decides to stay behind. It was a really neat way at the point to end his journey in this way so he could continue being the hero and look after his Gran, who rather amusingly keeps slapping him! The in-joke of having Ricky as well as Mickey was funny. I liked the way Mickey just becomes more and more heroic in this and turns into action man, a figure far removed from the idiot we saw in his debut in Rose.

Really enjoyed this story and unfortunately I still think this has been the best Cybermen adventure to date. After this, they got their arses kicked by the Daleks, had the presence of the Cyber King in another and they haven't been particularly well used during Moffat's time, thus far. Another story like this is seriously needed.

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Old 31-10-2012, 12:27
John_Strange
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daveboy7472 - couldn't agree more. I particularly liked the Mickey arc, and for the first time, in nu-who, we have a companion choosing to leave and become something more than he could ever have hoped to become before meeting the Doctor. This of course becomes a theme for RTD and is an answer to the Sarah-Jane question in school reunion - the experience of being with the Doctor becomes trancendental and they return to life as something far greater that they were before meeting him. (Interestingly we see this change happen to Martha Jones while she is with him, but that's for another time.)
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Old 31-10-2012, 12:37
darthbibble
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Not a huge fan at all of this, they corrected what was wrong with the later Cybermen, but took out what was good about them at the same time.

The design of the Cybermen is a bit "toy friendly" for me.

Also the Cybermen's nicking of bit of the Daleks doesn't work for me at all (Though I suppose the Daleks in BW/TPOTW where nicking a bit from the Cybermen too). By this I mean

a/ The Cybermen having there own version of "Exterminate" - "Delete"
b/ Lumic being a Cybermen version of Davros.

The conversion process of (virtually) just being a brain in a metal suit didn't work for me either.


A wasted opportunity for me.

Saying that I did like Mickey's arc and the return of Pete.
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Old 31-10-2012, 14:49
daveyboy7472
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Forget to mention the other reason I like this story so much-the direction of Graeme Harper. Brilliant as always.

Plus I forgot to ask, on watching this last night, I saw 'With thanks to Marc Platt.' in the end credits.

Anyone know exactly what contribution he made to the episodes?

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Old 31-10-2012, 15:18
darthbibble
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Plus I forgot to ask, on watching this last night, I saw 'With thanks to Marc Platt.' in the end credits.

Anyone know exactly what contribution he made to the episodes?

Some of the original drafts drew reference from his Big Finish audio play "Spare Parts"
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Old 31-10-2012, 16:37
doublefour
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Baring their appearance in Army of Ghosts/Doomsday, this is the only Cybermen story I rate in the new series.
I like the new cybermen, despite the fact they are not the Mondas ones from the classic series. I can see the logic of reimagining them in the new series. The Lumic character desperate to prolong his failing life, I think it is effective how they portray the Cybermen's emergence and threat on the the backdrop of a more poverty stricken/martial law enforced Britain complete with Zeppelins etc... Back to the Lumic character who I agree is well portrayed by Trigger err... sorry Roger Lloyd Pack, it is well fleshed out and the scenes with the President (or whatever his title is in the parallel world) aboard Lumic's Zeppelin.
Then there is the alternative Pete Tyler storyline for Rose. I like the elements, andthere are plenty of scenes I love. all of those at the party from Rose and her alternative world mother. To the scenes when the Cybermen crash the party and start electrifying people.
The cliffhanger although eventually easily resumed at the start of the Age of Steel is a good one.
I like the feel of the Cybermen taking over London, the scenes where people are sleepwalking into the Factory very refelective and indeed impressive.
There of course is the Mickey storyline which ends in quite a powerful farewell as he joins Jake and the Doctor and Rose leave.
How good is the Mrs Moore character, shame she wasn't spared and could pop up somewhere later in the Doctor's adventures
Yes the Cybermen march up and down a bit comically here and there but you feel the threat and domination of taking over a city I believe. The pace throughout lends itself to the action adventure this story leans towards, and the scenes in the factory are gruesome but again nicely effective and you get a sense of scale of what is happening.
A very palatable and thrilling two parter this one.
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Old 31-10-2012, 16:40
doublefour
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Forget to mention the other reason I like this story so much-the direction of Graeme Harper. Brilliant as always.

Plus I forgot to ask, on watching this last night, I saw 'With thanks to Marc Platt.' in the end credits.

Anyone know exactly what contribution he made to the episodes?

Graham Harper, a badge of quality whenever he is involved in a Doctor Who production, I totally echo your comments on him.
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Old 31-10-2012, 16:45
daveyboy7472
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Some of the original drafts drew reference from his Big Finish audio play "Spare Parts"
Cool, thanks for that.

Graham Harper, a badge of quality whenever he is involved in a Doctor Who production, I totally echo your comments on him.
Yep, and he went one better with the finale, more of that when we get to it though.

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Old 31-10-2012, 18:44
Lady of Traken
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.........Away from the Cybermen, I liked all the parallel world stuff. The Zeppelins and all the stuff with daily downloads into people's heads is an interesting concept which you could actually see happening considering the rate of progress at the moment. What I also find amusing watching this is that despite all this technology, Rose has an old style Nokia mobile phone from 2006, it just shows how far they developed in just 7 years!

The return of Pete Tyler was also a welcome addition, loved all the musical cues from Father's Day. It was interesting to see a world where Pete doesn't die, he's rich from his dodgy dealings and is in the last throes of his marriage and Rose is in fact a dog! Again, though we didn't know it, Jackie's death in the parallel world is a neat setup for the finale, I thought it was well thought out.

As for The Doctor and Rose, well, The Doctor almost takes a back seat in the first episode with all the other events going on. There's not much of the romantic stuff in this one as the story takes precedence but the focus returns to Rose and her parallel parents which I liked. The party stuff was great and I daresay Tennant in a tuxedo appealed to the Ladies but Rose looked quite hot in a maid's outfit as well..............................................................
Also enjoyed the very last scenes where Mickey decides to stay behind. It was a really neat way at the point to end his journey in this way so he could continue being the hero and look after his Gran, who rather amusingly keeps slapping him! The in-joke of having Ricky as well as Mickey was funny. I liked the way Mickey just becomes more and more heroic in this and turns into action man, a figure far removed from the idiot we saw in his debut in Rose.

Really enjoyed this story and unfortunately I still think this has been the best Cybermen adventure to date. After this, they got their arses kicked by the Daleks, had the presence of the Cyber King in another and they haven't been particularly well used during Moffat's time, thus far. Another story like this is seriously needed.

I do agree with you a lot on this story. It certainly warrants a 2 parter theres a lot to cram in. This is certainly the best new Who story for the Cybermen partly i think because we see the start of the whole conversion and the mad Lumic. Whilst his aim to still alive isnt a bad one the process of conversion is truly horrifying. Brilliant that I get to hear Tight Fit after so many years !

The Cybermen were a threat in Doomsday too when converting but here it is truly believable that Lumic has control of London. The scene with Mrs Moore and the Doctor going through the cooling tunnels always set me on edge waiting for the Cybermen to come alive.Well done Graeme Harper, another fab directing job. Feels very retro for some reason to the classic .

Loved the parallel world too. There is so much possibility with this kind of story which is exploited to the max.Mickey meeting his gran again, The scenes at the house are the most memorable :Rose meeting Pete and a version of Jackie which is quite bitter and unlikeable but you still wouldnt want her to be converted. Yes David Tennant looked hot in a tuxedo. Rose moaning about being serving staff again is quite funny as is the yappy pet.

All the emotions on show here are quite nicely counterpointed with the cool efficiency of the Cybermen.
I like it that Mickey finds a purpose outside of Rose and finally gains the Doctor's respect. Noel Clarke's Mickey always feels to me a bit like Rory -just there for comic relef but he actually gets a great script here
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Old 31-10-2012, 19:44
Face Of Jack
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To me, this was the BEST cyberman story of the new series. It involved Rose, Mickey and Jackie and Pete Tyler. Plus the wonderful Roger Lloyd Pack as the villain.
The Cyberman were impressive as an 'alternative' race. But I must admit I preferred the original cybermen!
Micky/Ricky was brilliantly done.
Oh, and David did another excellent job as The Doctor!
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Old 31-10-2012, 20:07
Sara_Peplow
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Cybermen after the daleks are an iconic doctor who villain. Love the scene in AGMGTW when Rory confronts them and the doctor destroys their fleet. Got to bring them back at some point.
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Old 31-10-2012, 20:48
sovietusername
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The superb run of stories continues with this 2-Parter featuring the return and debut of the Cybermen to the New Series.

I always have mixed views over these new Cybermen. I don't see why the original Mondas Cybermen couldn't have returned with a radical new design rather than start from scratch. Having said that, I do like the new design and all the sounds of them marching, I even like the fact that they are even more emotionless than those in the Classic series but I do miss the old Classic Design. Even though this is a contradiction in terms I loved the emotionless 'personalities' of the old shows where the CyberLeader had his catchphrase like excellent and did some serious fist clenching!

There is none of that with these new Cybermen but I do like the fact that the process of conversion was shown more extensively than ever before and also the effects of them once their emotional inhibitors have been removed. Sally Field was an excellent concept, someone who was once a woman about to get married. That was a really good scene.

I like all the nods to The Invasion with International Electromatics and Tomb Of The Cybermen with the purely robotic Cyberman Mickey and Jake discover.

Marcus Lumic was superbly played by Roger Llloyd pack, showing he was than capable of doing serious roles away from Only Fools And Horses. Again, there is a lovely concept here that The Doctor points out to him after his upgrade that the human race would just stall after Cyberconversion and progress is what makes them. However, I never saw the point of him as the Cybercontroller sitting down after an upgrade, surely the Cybermen have no need to sit?!!!!

Away from the Cybermen, I liked all the parallel world stuff. The Zeppelins and all the stuff with daily downloads into people's heads is an interesting concept which you could actually see happening considering the rate of progress at the moment. What I also find amusing watching this is that despite all this technology, Rose has an old style Nokia mobile phone from 2006, it just shows how far they developed in just 7 years!

The return of Pete Tyler was also a welcome addition, loved all the musical cues from Father's Day. It was interesting to see a world where Pete doesn't die, he's rich from his dodgy dealings and is in the last throes of his marriage and Rose is in fact a dog! Again, though we didn't know it, Jackie's death in the parallel world is a neat setup for the finale, I thought it was well thought out.

As for The Doctor and Rose, well, The Doctor almost takes a back seat in the first episode with all the other events going on. There's not much of the romantic stuff in this one as the story takes precedence but the focus returns to Rose and her parallel parents which I liked. The party stuff was great and I daresay Tennant in a tuxedo appealed to the Ladies but Rose looked quite hot in a maid's outfit as well.......

The Cybermen quite literally gatecrash the party and the cliffhanger was a really good one, leaving you wondering exactly how The Doctor and co would survive deletion at the Cybermen's hands. The resolution was a slight cop-out but don't suppose there was any other way of doing it.

The second episode was equally as action packed. Mrs Moore was yet another character we grew to like who was killed off. The stuff with the numbers on the mobile phone to cancel out the emotional inhibitor was a tad far-fetched, but the stuff on the ladder with the Cyber controller was good.

Also enjoyed the very last scenes where Mickey decides to stay behind. It was a really neat way at the point to end his journey in this way so he could continue being the hero and look after his Gran, who rather amusingly keeps slapping him! The in-joke of having Ricky as well as Mickey was funny. I liked the way Mickey just becomes more and more heroic in this and turns into action man, a figure far removed from the idiot we saw in his debut in Rose.

Really enjoyed this story and unfortunately I still think this has been the best Cybermen adventure to date. After this, they got their arses kicked by the Daleks, had the presence of the Cyber King in another and they haven't been particularly well used during Moffat's time, thus far. Another story like this is seriously needed.

This

100% agree
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Old 31-10-2012, 22:10
daveyboy7472
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I do agree with you a lot on this story. It certainly warrants a 2 parter theres a lot to cram in. This is certainly the best new Who story for the Cybermen partly i think because we see the start of the whole conversion and the mad Lumic. Whilst his aim to still alive isnt a bad one the process of conversion is truly horrifying. Brilliant that I get to hear Tight Fit after so many years !

The Cybermen were a threat in Doomsday too when converting but here it is truly believable that Lumic has control of London. The scene with Mrs Moore and the Doctor going through the cooling tunnels always set me on edge waiting for the Cybermen to come alive.Well done Graeme Harper, another fab directing job. Feels very retro for some reason to the classic .

Loved the parallel world too. There is so much possibility with this kind of story which is exploited to the max.Mickey meeting his gran again, The scenes at the house are the most memorable :Rose meeting Pete and a version of Jackie which is quite bitter and unlikeable but you still wouldnt want her to be converted. Yes David Tennant looked hot in a tuxedo. Rose moaning about being serving staff again is quite funny as is the yappy pet.

All the emotions on show here are quite nicely counterpointed with the cool efficiency of the Cybermen.
I like it that Mickey finds a purpose outside of Rose and finally gains the Doctor's respect. Noel Clarke's Mickey always feels to me a bit like Rory -just there for comic relef but he actually gets a great script here
Much as I love 80's music, I do wish they could have used a different track at that point. The use of Tainted Love in The End Of the World I could live with as it was a different situation, but this, they could and should have used a more carefully chosen track, something that suited the situation, though I don't think there's a song called Cyber Conversion been released just yet.......
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Old 31-10-2012, 23:13
DavetheScot
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This story's had a good bit of criticism in the past, and I'm glad to read so much favourable opinion of it now, as I think it's pretty good.

I loved the parallel world, with Pete still alive, Jackie quite different and not nearly so nice, and Rose a dog! I thought the Cybermen were quite well-used.
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Old 31-10-2012, 23:16
krikkiter68
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I really like this two-parter - for me, it doesn't quite have the dynamism of the earlier stories of Series 2, but it's very strong nonetheless.

Noel Clarke is fantastic in this, IMO. He takes Mickey, literally, into another realm, and you can really believe his transformation into someone who will risk everything to save his friends, and - possibly the bravest act of all - give up someone he loves, for the greater good.

Fantastic direction by Graeme Harper, as ever - the close ups on the Cybermen are thrilling. Don Warrington is wonderfully cast as the President - impeccable dignity and gravitas. Mrs Moore is one of my favourite one-story companions of all time. The whole 'Sally' episode is heartbreaking. And Roger Lloyd-Pack is really enjoying his role. Altogether, a fantastic two-parter.
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Old 01-11-2012, 03:25
Abomination
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This was the first point in the series at which I really thought that the episode wasn't "stand out". The four episodes before this were so diverse, colourful, adventurous and wonderfully different that this one smacked in the face of familiarity. There were some elements which I loved to see, whilst others that I really wish we hadn't.

David Tennant was soso for me here. He hadn't yet delivered a performance which felt like he WAS The Doctor. To me he still felt like a stand-in, and he would for a long time yet. But it was probably around this mark that he became a good stand-in, so to speak. The rest of the cast were amazing, and the two-parter assembles one of the best guest casts of all. Mrs.Moore was a real emotive cog, as brief as her shining moment was. Jake was just awesome and I really wish we'd gotten to see more of his character, particularly in relation to Ricky - the deleted scenes implied that there was something more than friendship between them though, and maybe Doctor Who wasn't quite ready to jump into that yet when it involved a recurring character (unless your Capain Jack of course ).

The return of Pete was a nice addition and served the plot well, and getting Jackie back again was a nice reminder of Series 1... but that's the extent of the joyful sentiment, as beyond that I was sorely disappointed.
The plot was just too similar to Bad Wolf/The Parting of the Ways for my liking. The problem is, the Dalek story was superior in so many regards - at times Age of Steel simply felt like a pale imitation of the Series 1 finale. We had the massive armies of cybermen, just as we'd had a whole fleet of Daleks. They came fully equipped with a small, cute catchphrase which was just overdone, and then they reveal the 'Big Bad' to be the Cyberleader - a cyberman in a wheelchair that has a transparent cranium casing. This was not a patch on the Emperor Dalek but the point of the character felt very familiar, and all the Cyberleader managed to do was take Roger Lloyd Pack off the screen, which was a tremendous shame. The episode then concluded with a slightly cheesy exit for Mickey, which I only enjoyed because it meant I didn't have to endure him in any more episodes I realised through the introduction of Ricky that it is definitely the character and not the actor as I didn't mind Ricky at all

To the episodes credit, the locaton filming at Battersea was impressive and the sense of threat across the second episode was quite well realised. The slower pace of the story was welcome after four entertaining stories before it, and the convenient set up of one Mickey, one Pete and one Jackie being left at the end of all of this went over my head at the time - I admit.

Overall, there was an impressive set of elements here. A very solid cast, some brilliant directing, locations and I guess I should mention a passable introduction for the Cybermen. The zeppelins were a nice feature of the parallel world too, from a creative point of view.
But the story and the set-up were rife with over-familiarity. The Cybermen were good, but lets face it, they were made into loud-footed Dalek wannabes for the sake of this story. To add to that humiliation, the Daleks only came and stole their thunder in the series finale as well. I think that alone stands to reason that the cybermen were just not fleshed out enough (pun not intended ) to carry such an intense set of episodes. Both their Series 2 stories were very similar, the first was too much like the Series 1 finale, and unfortunately for Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel it didn't have the departure of Christopher Ecccleston or Billie Piper to guide it along.
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Old 01-11-2012, 15:29
Granny McSmith
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Excellent 2-parter for all the reasons davey says.

Tennant was wonderful.

Graham Harper is a fantastic director. We could have done with him during series 5 and 6!

I really liked the alternate universe idea. The misunderstandings with the 2 Mickeys, and Rose the dog were well done. It was pacy and fairly zipped along, but there was still time to develop character, notably Mrs Moore. Mickey's Gran indulged in a bit of domestic violence (Sorry. See the series 7 episode discussions)

Nice to see Mickey making good.

Excellent ending, the Doctor and Rose going back to Jackie feeling very shaken with what happened.

One of the best episodes of the series.
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Old 01-11-2012, 17:59
allen_who
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it's a long time since I've seen this but I remember at the start of episode 2 thinking.. 'where did the Doc get that device from that fired electricity at all the Cybermen??' did I miss something? was it the sonic screwdriver??

I just remember being baffled. Anyone know? -- was it one of those deux machina (spelling?) things that pops up now and again on the forum, that I'm not even sure what it means?
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Old 01-11-2012, 18:02
Torry_Z
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it's a long time since I've seen this but I remember at the start of episode 2 thinking.. 'where did the Doc get that device from that fired electricity at all the Cybermen??' did I miss something? was it the sonic screwdriver??

I just remember being baffled. Anyone know? -- was it one of those deux machina (spelling?) things that pops up now and again that I'm not even sure what it means?
No it was the tardis powercell that was recharging
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Old 01-11-2012, 19:21
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This is a very exciting 2 parter. It seens to have it all, action intrigue, humour and character development for Mickey. It's always nice to see Mickey stand up to the Doctor after which he gets a lot more respect from him. I loved the opening scenes in the TARDIS with mickey holding the button too long causing them to get Lost in Pete's world.

Excellent cliffhanger and a touching resolution at the end. Fun for all.
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Old 04-08-2013, 21:41
MikeySaint859
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Just watched The Rise of the Cybermen and was excited to see the the Cybermen again. After the Daleks perhaps my favourite Dr Who baddie. It was a good episode, I thought, though it didn't really feel like Dr Who till the last five or ten minutes. Some of the guest actors were a bit on the questionable side (couldn't they get anyone better than Roger Lloyd-Pack to play John Lumic?), and I didn't really get Rose's obsession with her father. The other thing is that with it being a parallel universe the threat of the Cybermen seemed a little diluted - as if what they do doesn't matter quite so much.

All in all, though, and enjoyable romp, and now it's time to watch Age of Steel.
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Old 04-08-2013, 22:47
MikeySaint859
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Well, that was an excellent two-parter, and I will definitely be watching the episodes again. Allowed myself to read the above posts once The Age of Steel finished and am glad to see the story went down well with others. Almost shed a tear when the downed Cyberman had its emotional inhibiter damaged and the young woman spoke from within. If the scene had gone on much longer I'm sure I'd have needed a hanky.

Revised my opinion of Roger Lloyd-Pack, too. He was good.

Yep, excellent stuff.
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