This post? Thankyou. Seems like I'm hardly on here now but you're right, Syed needs that unit around him. Yet Syed's tendency to conceal things and and Christian's insecurities play off each other and tend to become exaggerated when they're both under stress and revert to type. There are trust issues but I kind of feel Syed is concealing things because he doesn't want to lose Christian and yet because that plays to Christian's insecurities, he may end up doing so anyway.


Thank you for the screencap!

You're all welcome for the caps!

Isn't Johnny doing the lotto tonight?

He is

Yay!

/except it says 'EXCEPT NORTHERN IRELAND.' Brilliant :sleep:

Sky tv guide says Northern Ireland has to wait til 11.05 to see him

Typical :sleep:

It's not all bad, I can catch it at the same time as everyone else on iPlayer I guess.

Yep. Then you can watch it again on TV later

Lol! Interviewed guest - Chris Moyles who of course just finished the Jesus Christ Superstar tour with Johnny's lovely hubby!

ETA: Langford's article is out on AfterElton. Short and brusque opinion is that its all plotty nonsense being rushed for Marc & John's leaving. No, really? :sleep: (I'm feeling pissy tonight... )

That's the plan


Oooh cool!
And thanks for the article

Evening All WARNING - long ramble coming up!

Just been having a crisis with my disc space and moved a ton of stuff to a different drive, feeling all stressed! Too much Marc and Johnny wonderfulness on my computer!

Who me? - thanks for the Q & A info, will try to think of an intelligent question, although mine might be - 'how come you are so incredibly talented?' LOL. Glad you got to see Marc, I did too, last Friday and he was brilliant. Such a pleasure to watch.

Glad you had a good holiday in Rhodes, I went there twice in 95 and 98 (last century, wow that sounds weird) and loved it. Magical island.

Lyra and Nowhere - you both made very good posts about Syed on the last thread and on here.

So it begins!

Basically what I think has happened is that Syed is having a final struggle with what he views as ambition vs domesticity, but I think he had already resolved it when he said to Danny 'I'll take the husband and the penthouse'.

I don't see Syed as massively materialistic, but Zainab's ambitions and thoughts will have rubbed off on him. Tied up in all this is hurt pride at Michael's words, and feeling down about himself because he is, (let's face it) quite often the one who has lost out on a deal, on a situation, and feels as he said 'like a nobody'. I think these feelings are valid (from his perspective, I don't think they are TRUE, not at all) but they all got activated when the deal went wrong and Zainab pushed the 'help your brother and save the family' button. Understandable to me, and hence why he went into overdrive and spiralled.

With regard to how this contrasts to the Syed in CCC scene, when he attempts to go back into properly and then decides against it, rejects it all as shallow, I see this as him embracing the possibility of letting it all go, enjoying just being with Christian against the world. At this point, they were just a unit of two, he felt he'd lost his family again, and was coming to terms with it. He was also examining his previous self and discarding the lot. He also was unaware he was a father.

I don't see Danny as representing Syed's 'dark side' just a side of him that has been a bit submerged. He was ambitous during Salongate and we saw that side a bit. He's never truly lost it. There is nothing wrong with it either, except when it is activated to the extent that he will be reckless to impress his Dad and Mum (I use this order because I do think that deep down Syed's desire to impress Masood is greater than to please Zainab). This is all family stuff and really, Christian is rather lost in all of this, he isn't to the forefront of Syed's mind, because of childhood stuff being activated.

All of this and him meeting Danny, at the worst possible moment, has brought about his questions about himself, who he is. I also do think that, like it or not, it's a realistic situation for Syed to question about settling down with Christian with all this going on. I don't think he 'wanted Danny' as a real lifelong option, just that he fancied him, had a bit of a thrill in being fancied, was flattered, and let himself have a little fantasy moment. All quite understandable to me - given all the above the timing.

I think he'll feel great guilt and confusion for fancying Danny and also not be very clear in himself about what it was all really about.

Taking away all the did he or didn't he with Danny, all the emotional upset we feel at seeing all this on screen, and Christian being beaten up again (although this time I think it was a fight and I personally think it would have been better for it to be shown like that) - taking away all this........

I think the crux of the matter is TIMING. Timing in their lives, both of them being different ages/backgrounds and experiences.

Christian is ready to settle down, wants it, really did want a family - despite what we might have thought, it's true from what we've seen on screen this year.

Syed is younger but (and this is important) in a similar position to when he married Amira, in the sense that he then, with a woman, would have been a virgin and promised himself for life with no prior sexual experience with a woman. As I say, similar but not entirely the same. He's had limited and brief encounters with his 4 ONS, but apart from that, nothing. So really, he is facing the same scenario. Except if, in his faith as a heterosexual man (had he been) he would have gone ahead without question.

As a gay man, he is now facing - does he really know if he has explored life/himself enough? I think it's a valid question for him and for him to feel at the last moment, a sense of doubt. I do think this is what was meant by the 'it's in my heart' comment, but nothing more. I still don't believe he actually had full sex with Danny, but it's perfectly possible it went beyond more than a kiss. That I can consider and understand.

As I say, bad, bad, bad timing on all of this, for Danny to show up when Syed is in this head space and to be considering and wondering about himself, his future and his place in life. I actually see this as all very realistic and although it's painful for us as fans of a couple, it's good and realistic to have it raised.

The crux of the matter, if they both decide to be together again, will be this -

Syed - is he able to walk away from any 'what else might be out there' scenarios in his head. I see this as human and not necessarily a lack of love toward Christian, just life timing and circumstances. It's a real thing for someone to face and it doesn't make him a bad person if he had these thoughts. I think he does love Christian, but, facing the vows, if they are to mean what they mean, who does not examine this closely? I think he also has to have a leap of faith - in that he has to close the book on the what might have beens, if they are to have a future together, but in this way, this is to me where it is no different for Syed than a heterosexual marriage within Islam, where he would have been a virgin and promised himself before marriage.

Christian - he will once again have to have a leap of faith, think, will Syed still want me in 5/10 years, whatever? After all his waiting, sometimes pushing, sometimes just hoping, it's a big ask for him. But if you meet someone like Syed, it's part of the territory. A man who has remained in the closet for a long while due to his faith and background. So, he too must decide once more if it is worth that final leap of faith. It's a hard thing to ask of someone after all he's been through.

These are realistic things for them both to face. I don't think having these issues raised negates their love for each other, but makes it REAL and realistic, to the moment in each of their life stages. It's painful for all of us, because we love them as a couple and want them to succeed and overcome. And I do, very much. I want them to be together and I'll cry my eyes out if they split.

However, taking off my romantic hat - this is very real situation for a man who closeted and came out later in life, as opposed to one who did it much earlier and is now ready for other things.

In order to be together and go forward, both are going to have to face a huge leap of faith/compromise (not sure what the right phrase would be really) it's going to be a bit of both. Neither can have any true guarantees, but then again, no-one ever can, gay or straight. It's age difference, life difference and who they are, what they want. Do they meet in the middle enough? I hope so.

Syed is going to have to come to terms with the fact that his life is what it is, NOW, and also if he really thinks his life might have been more. Perhaps even running away from Amira or everything in his past. Better or different than Christian, despite his love - the BIG 'is this it?' question.

Christian is going to have to come to terms with the fact that he has married a man a fair bit younger than him, and also because of his background spent longer in the closet, didn't explore life/other men. He has to come to terms with his fear and face that. Will he be enough, with time and ageing?

Both require a leap of faith and belief in their relationship and each other and actually, all of these things are just as relevant to any age gap relationship, not just a gay one.

This was a long ramble. I needed to do it! I think both will take that leap of faith, for each of their different reasons, and decide that each other is enough.
Last edited by starfish100 : 31-10-2012 at 18:18

*peers round the corner* Can I come back in????

I am so sorry I've not been on here, R/L has been so busy!!!!! But, I have been keeping up to date with the boys. And I must say, good punch Christian!!!!! Not really sure what's been happening here though, so you'll have to fill me in. Has the con happened yet? What about the Chryed-fest?

Hope you don't all hate me for ditching you without any warning...

xxxxx

bib - It annoys the hell out of me that EE are rushing through Chryed's storyline. You'd think they'd been given five minutes notice that Marc was off - not seven months

/still bitter

This storyline is pure cruelty, from start to finish. . I can't believe the writers are going to have Syed tell Christian that he's allowed Amira to take Yasmin just minutes after he's told Christian that he loves him more than ever - I'll be hiding behind the sofa, feeling sorry for both of them.

Evening

Something's bothering me. I keep seeing comments on the MF and also on WW saying that Danny was spot on about Syed last night and that Syed doesn't want the cosy family life with Christian, he'd rather be in the penthouse with Danny. Have I been viewing Syed wrong all these years cos I've never felt like he's this sort of person at all? I think part of his personality is driven by ambition and the desire to be successful, but I've always linked this with his relationship with Zainab and Masood, wanting to make them proud and the fear of being seen as a failure in their eyes. I think Danny represents the kind of person Syed thinks he should be in Zainab and Masood's eyes. And I think Danny came along at a time when Syed was at his most vulnerable, under so much stress and pressure and it probably made him start to question whether he's made the right choice in life. Of course, the moment Syed kissed him or slept with him or whatever they ended up doing, he realised it was a mistake. He hasn't encouraged Danny since and I think it's clear that Syed does love Christian. If he was wanting to be with Danny, would he really spend the next 2 weeks desperately trying to win Christian back? He'd be relieved more than anything, relieved to be free from married life so he could go and have some fun with Danny. But, of course, he isn't, he's devastated to have lost Christian again.

I'm not sure what the point of this is. I think I'm just rambling, sorry

No - your interpretation is not wrong and I agree with you - see my huge rambling post above yours.

Totally agree, Syed's ambitious desires are mixed up with wanting to please, he's also shown very much that being part of a family and being accepted are his most important drivers, and even if it's about money, it's ALWAYS about Masood and his relationship with his father (to me). Sorry for caps, = means = feel strongly.

I agree entirely and I think it just demonstrates how appalling this storyline has been. Syed has become a villan to most casual viewers in the space of a few weeks because they don't think about Syed's character as much as fans do - and even some fans are struggling with this.

Haha JP just tweeted this! So my little trick or treaters, off to the lottery to see if I can make a spooky millionaire or two. I hope my balls are good to you!!

Lol, just seen your fab rambling post! It's fascinating when you write it all out like that, so much potential there but EE have barely even scratched the surface with Chryed and now they're off

Brilliant post Starfish! And Laura too - I agree

I think Danny thinks he's spot on, thinks that he knows the real Syed and Christian doesn't - and the irony is that it's the other way around. Danny only knows the desperate/vulnerable Syed who was looking to escape from his life for a bit, and not the real Syed who loves his family and adores Christian. You're a fool Danny - go home :sleep:

bib - Sounds like Danny knows the same Syed that Amira knew in the early days.

I'm dissapointed in PrincessPerfect for believing Syed to be the person Danny thinks he is, she usually gives good reviews. She even agreed with MissLola, even though MissLola doesn't like Christian and would therefore love Danny to be right.

Hmm, I dunno. I think Danny knows a risk-taker who doesn't want to be tied down, and Amira knew someone who wanted kids a lot, and was also straight

Good point.

Thank you so much, thought I'd driven everyone to sleep. LOL

I do believe very strongly in what I have written, in the sense that - if you just took another couple - taking out all our emotions, this is what you would wonder and think about.

This is also where it is so wonderful - its all about a LEAP OF FAITH from both, once again for different reasons. They can't change who they are, or their ages, or their backgrounds. This is why I can neither blame, or condemn the other. To a certain extent, it's about time and how they both fit into that.


I agree! Thanks, and I agree. Danny is being signposted all the way to being a huge egomaniac - can't take no for an answer, doesn't like being turned down. The punch for Christian - ouch, horrible, who knows what Syed might have got?? Horrible.

Nice guy Danny? Whatever happened to him - he never even started......

Syed loves Christian. He's just messed up at the minute because he's in a different head space. Guilt, doubt, failure and some major life overhauls (ie fatherhood) has shifted their foundations and Syed just needs to figure out how he can re-orient himself. He wants to - that was clear on their wedding day - but it takes time to come to terms with it all.

Yes, he messed up big style with the money and his family, and he lied to and cheated on Christian. He knows that, and there's an element of he doesn't even deserve to be happy/with C because of that which could slow down the closure-stuff.

That's why when he realises Christian met up with Danny behind his back and believed that it was more then a kiss he's thrown. His rock is now doubting him, compounding every negative thought he's had. When he realises Christian might be questioning their life together he realises that it's exactly what he wants. It's that classic scenario; you don't know what you want 'til it's gone.....