[moejoe]

After all the hype and mystery when he first arrived have the EE writers failed with Derek's character development?
I mean I don't know whether to hate him, like him, pity him or just laugh at him!
At present what's confirmed his a petty criminal, with loose morals and hardly any principles. He has an anger but most of his menace is to girls or guys who don't want to fight, also he has insecurity issues.
What's been hinted at, he could be a sexual predator and might of raped Michael, Tanya and possibly Carol.

My opinion, they wanted to make Derek the ultimate psychopath/evil had a whole load of story lines but then them considered that EE is a family show and a lot of viewers could be turned off by too dark story lines so the writers did not want to risk losing a lot of viewers etc . Like with his bullying of Lucy, did writers consider turning it darker and then changed their minds or did they intentionally leave out any sexual aspect to end the link people make with Derek being a sexual sadist etc? Cos let's face it 1) If they turned it sexual it would not of been a surprise considering most peoples interpretation of Derek and past hints but 2) If he was a sexual predator it would of come out when he was bullying Lucy, maybe with Lucy the writers were putting an end to the theories of Derek being a sex offender.

[TLC1098]

They spoiled him when he threatned Pat on her death bed. There was no need for that scene at all and was disrespecful to Pam St Clement.

[moejoe]

Originally Posted by TLC1098

They spoiled him when he threatned Pat on her death bed. There was no need for that scene at all and was disrespecful to Pam St Clement.

Seems they did not know what to do with him. Stereotypical old school east end gangster with morals and principles or just a soulless psycho.

[Lousiana]

Not really cos whatever anyone's personal opinion on the character (and we must remember that forum users make up a minority of the overall audience) that does not necessarily mean they have failed in what they wanted to achieve with him.

Characters like Derek are always a struggle though as it's difficult to write a character like that before the watershed. Also EE seem to make them domesticated about halfway through their time on the show - they did it with Johnny Allen as well and that just seems to make things worse.

The Pat/David/Carol stuff was actually really good as it tied into the show's history it was sort of after that that things went downhill.

[Scrabbler]

Originally Posted by Lousiana

Not really cos whatever anyone's personal opinion on the character (and we must remember that forum users make up a minority of the overall audience) that does not necessarily mean they have failed in what they wanted to achieve with him.

Characters like Derek are always a struggle though as it's difficult to write a character like that before the watershed. Also EE seem to make them domesticated about halfway through their time on the show - they did it with Johnny Allen as well and that just seems to make things worse.

The Pat/David/Carol stuff was actually really good as it tied into the show's history it was sort of after that that things went downhill.

I didn't buy their history though, especially from Pat. She was not scared of anyone but was scared of Derek. He can be a bit of a thug, but he is no worse than what we have had before with the likes of Den, Phil, Andy and Johnny all of whom Pat has stood up against on more than one occassion.

I think they have got Derek all wrong, I agree with what you said about giving him a family as that was the truth death of the character.

[vald]

I still don't know what he's meant to be.

A misogynist bully of women
A man to be feared...certainly Jack, Max and Michael fear him
A doting father..at least to Alice
or
An irresistable and romantic lover...at least that's what the the majority on here believe.

TBH He's ended up as a joke, and if he turns out to be Kat's lover she will be a joke too.

[Scrabbler]

Originally Posted by vald

I still don't know what he's meant to be.

A misogynist bully of women
A man to be feared...certainly Jack, Max and Michael fear him
A doting father..at least to Alice
or
An irresistable and romantic lover...at least that's what the the majority on here believe.

TBH He's ended up as a joke, and if he turns out to be Kat's lover she will be a joke too.

Kats been a joke for a long time now Val. But yes I agree with your comments about Derek. They like to cram soi much of him in that he has to fit a multitude of roles in the show and it doesn't work.

[Lousiana]

Originally Posted by Scrabbler

I didn't buy their history though, especially from Pat. She was not scared of anyone but was scared of Derek. He can be a bit of a thug, but he is no worse than what we have had before with the likes of Den, Phil, Andy and Johnny all of whom Pat has stood up against on more than one occassion.

I think they have got Derek all wrong, I agree with what you said about giving him a family as that was the truth death of the character.

Maybe in her heyday but towards the end Pat was not really up to much plus Derek was portrayed as a bit of a fruit loop when he first came into it, it was later on that he became the teatime gangster.

I enjoyed it because we had seen the David/Derek feud on-screen before and it had been consistently mentioned since Carol and David arrived on the show in 1993/4. But after that we had the dodgy booze scam with Alfie which was .

[Scrabbler]

Originally Posted by Lousiana

Maybe in her heyday but towards the end Pat was not really up to much plus Derek was portrayed as a bit of a fruit loop when he first came into it, it was later on that he became the teatime gangster.

I enjoyed it because we had seen the David/Derek feud on-screen before and it had been consistently mentioned since Carol and David arrived on the show in 1993/4. But after that we had the dodgy booze scam with Alfie which was .

I just couldn't believe David was scared of Derek, it didn't ring true and just wasn't very convincing.

Yes it was good continuity that it was mentioned, but the rest of Dereks continuity was forgotten about.

[Lousiana]

Originally Posted by Scrabbler

I just couldn't believe David was scared of Derek, it didn't ring true and just wasn't very convincing.

Yes it was good continuity that it was mentioned, but the rest of Dereks continuity was forgotten about.

You mean the racism? It was the same with Jim though - EE sadly don't go there these days and it makes the show less realistic and more PC as a result. Jim even ended up becoming best friends with Patrick.

They did have Jay call Yolande a black cow a few years ago but that didn't come to anything either.

[maurice45]

I don't know whether he's a failed character in the eyes of the majority, but to me he is. As Lousiana and Scrabbler pointed out, giving him a family ruined him - not least because of how incredibly badly Joey and Alice have been written. It's Johnny Allen all over again...

....except Johnny Allen was actually a GOOD villain before (and later in spite of) the introduction of the mind-numbingly annoying little brat that was Ruby Allen.

Derek was hyped up greatly before his arrival, I was expecting a big-time gangster of some description to descend onto the Square. He's an appalling villain. I don't find him menacing - I've even seen people here say "he plays Derek for laughs" which reinforces my view that they've failed in establishing him as the new "bad boy" (words taken from DS spoilers!) of the Square.

[vald]

Originally Posted by Scrabbler

Kats been a joke for a long time now Val. But yes I agree with your comments about Derek. They like to cram soi much of him in that he has to fit a multitude of roles in the show and it doesn't work.

Kat's been a bit of a slapper and that makes her dislikable. But this time it's different because she's meant to be so much in love she can't stay away from him. Presumably he's also meant to be a sex god....that's why I say it's a joke.
Scratching an itch is one thing, but making Derek an irresistable lover is quite different and IMO completely unbelievable.
I'd say Derek's idea of foreplay is a dig in the ribs and 'how about it darling' whilst leering at her boobs....yeuk.

[moejoe]

Originally Posted by vald

I still don't know what he's meant to be.

A misogynist bully of women
A man to be feared...certainly Jack, Max and Michael fear him
A doting father..at least to Alice
or
An irresistable and romantic lover...at least that's what the the majority on here believe.

TBH He's ended up as a joke, and if he turns out to be Kat's lover she will be a joke too.

Suppose there's no reason why someone can't be all of those things rolled into one and maybe that's what they tried doing with him, but your right his character has become a joke. But the character will be remembered by how he leaves will it be with Skeletons out of the closet or as a man redeemed going out as a hero .

[computermaster]

Oh yeah for sure. They just had no idea what to do with him and tried to say that the actor knew from the beginning what his exit storyline was. That was obviously a lie, since he was pitched as an enemy to King Phil and i think he signed a contract extension somewhere down the line.

[vald]

Originally Posted by moejoe

Suppose there's no reason why someone can't be all of those things rolled into one and maybe that's what they tried doing with him, but your right his character has become a joke. But the character will be remembered by how he leaves will it be with Skeletons out of the closet or as a man redeemed going out as a hero .

Yes with a different casting it could have worked. But to fill all of those criteria they needed someone who was younger, physically fit and possesing charm and charisma with the ladies.
Derek could pull off the bullying and doting father act but fails to convince me on the rest.

[leeruk]

the writers had the chance to make Derek a nasty piece of work but they failed miserably the character of derek is a joke now .

[moejoe]

Originally Posted by vald

Yes with a different casting it could have worked. But to fill all of those criteria they needed someone who was younger, physically fit and possesing charm and charisma with the ladies.
Derek could pull off the bullying and doting father act but fails to convince me on the rest.

They should hired me, lol. Do you think Joey could become that character ? As far as I know they haven't shown any dark side to his character but that could be slowly introduced . He has shown cunning and manipulation when he played the Moon brother but then showed sincere remorse when it went other the top. Either way, they need diversity in the younger characters. I wonder how Shawn Slater would fit into the square he'd be like the only character in their late 20s

[vald]

Originally Posted by moejoe

They should hired me, lol. Do you think Joey could become that character ? As far as I know they haven't shown any dark side to his character but that could be slowly introduced . He has shown cunning and manipulation when he played the Moon brother but then showed sincere remorse when it went other the top. Either way, they need diversity in the younger characters. I wonder how Shawn Slater would fit into the square he'd be like the only character in their late 20s

Too early to say but they really do need someone to step into Phil's shoes soon. I could have seen someone like Danny doing it...right age and he has that ruthless streak as well as being a charmer. I think they've wasted him.

[priscilla]

Writing and casting was an epic fail.

[tiggerpooh]

I think they have as I haven't seen him do much recently, now that the Moon bros Anthony and Tyler aren't there anymore. I heard a rumour about a month ago that Jamie was to leave at Xmas.

[dazza89]

I think the Producers got it wrong with Derek right from the beginning but I do believe what we have seen from Derek is what there intention for the character was and it all comes from his opening line during Branning week last year...''Anyone mind if i intrude''

Well straight away he was intruding on the Brannings during Tanya's cancer, he then has this big secret with Max which is likely to ruin Max and Tanya as well as getting involved with Jack's custody battle of Amy. And it isnt just the Brannings. The Jacksons/Butchers...Living in and taking over there house, stopping Carol from being with David, tormenting Pat on her deathbed (if that isnt intruding i dont know what is), he even got involved with Whitless at some point over her and Tyler. The Mitchells...taking over Phil's businesses when he was inside,trying to get with Shirley when she was at her lowest, befriending Ben when he was vunerable, threatening Roxy and even trying to get her hurt. The Moons...Getting Tyler and Alfie involved with dodgy deals, forcing Anthony to leave, tormenting Michael and potentially being Kat's lover. The Beales...threatening Lucy and taking advantage during Ian's absense. I didnt see this episode but getting involved with AJ on his arrival when he and Masood damaged his car. Using rascist language towards Patrick and even getting involved in the bloody Walford Football team storyline. All Derek has been is an annoyance to everyone but I think its clear thats what the show wanted him to be, I guess with Derek soon to be leaving we may start to see him becoming more evil but like Carol said this week 'he is a sad, lonely old man' All he has done is intrude and interfear in people's lifes and that it seems is all they wanted him for to create drama and no doubt a big murder plot for his exit.

[Green Knickers]

We were told he was going to be the baddest of the bad but bar his first 7 weeks I never really saw that at all.When the casting was initally announced I thought the show was going to go back to another ganster Johnny Allen type era but there was nothing of that at all.

Id say Johnny Allen and Archie Mitchell were badder and scarey.

[Green Knickers]

Originally Posted by tiggerpooh

I think they have as I haven't seen him do much recently, now that the Moon bros Anthony and Tyler aren't there anymore. I heard a rumour about a month ago that Jamie was to leave at Xmas.

Tyler Moon is still there although hes not at the fore of the show.Do you think his days are numbered too considering his diminished presence?Any rumours on that score ?

[dazza89]

Originally Posted by Green Knickers

Tyler Moon is still there although hes not at the fore of the show.Do you think his days are numbered too considering his diminished presence?Any rumours on that score ?

I think it was likely to do with Tony's court case. They werent gonna involve him in any big stories if he was gonna be going to prison as that would of meant a massive rewrite in scripts. I cant see Tyler being axed so I guess in the New Year we will start to see more of him.

[Green Knickers]

Originally Posted by dazza89

I think it was likely to do with Tony's court case. They werent gonna involve him in any big stories if he was gonna be going to prison as that would of meant a massive rewrite in scripts. I cant see Tyler being axed so I guess in the New Year we will start to see more of him.

That probably does explain it-basic logistics.I do think Shona presents a problem as shes on a final warning and has been told shell be fired on the spot if she misbehaves again.Surely its difficult to write a longterm storyarc for someone played by an actor in that position?