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Old 02-12-2012, 00:25
Ray Cathode
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p362 on ITV/C4 text is now blank although a reference to it still remains on the C4 text index page. Have they changed their minds?
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:10
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I can't see Channel 5 disappearing from PSB2 myself.
I don't think anyone suggested that.
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:14
jj20x
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Channel 5 was moved to PSB2 in exchange for ITV3 moving to SDN
Using a possible 9th stream for Channel 5 would allow ITV3 to possibly return and restore the 50:50 split between ITV and C4.
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Old 05-12-2012, 11:25
Sue_Aitch
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Paddy Power pages (464-6) confirm closure
but their Text on 3 page hasn't been updated for two months now.

p362 on ITV/C4 text is now blank although a reference to it still remains on the C4 text index page. Have they changed their minds?
Here in Meridian East, Text on 3 page 362 is back to the Retune information page whilst Text on 4 page 362 is still the 1 page summary of the service ending on Monday 7th January.

Methinks A & N Mobile & TV are concentrating on the content of LCNs 201-204 now.
From Ofcom
Please be aware that, due to the migration of our data to new systems, licence details are not currently being updated on the Ofcom website. The relevant pages have been amended with the caveat:

This page is currently not being refreshed. If you need to confirm any details, please email tv.licensing@ofcom.org.uk.
For the Text on 3 / Text on 4 branding, the licence at http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/tvlicensing/dtt/1116.htm will be handed back in January 2013 by DMGT.
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Old 07-12-2012, 07:25
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Text on 3 page 362 is back to the Closing Down page.

: Waves at A & N Mobile and TV in case they are visiting DS :
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:01
Sue_Aitch
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bet365 (Text on 4 page 422 -424's headers) confirm they are leaving the service on 31st December, so one ful wekk before DMGT's A&N Mobile & TV closes the Text on 3 /4 service.
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:03
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bet365.com (Text on 4 page 422) confirm they are leaving the service on 31st December, so one ful wekk before DMGT's A&N Mobile & TV closes the Text on 3 /4 service.
Surprised you haven't mentioned what's happened on channel 205...
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:19
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Made me look

I genuinely hadn't noticed that had happened!
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Old 10-12-2012, 18:07
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Four weeks today until Text on 3 / Text on 4 disappears.

I wonder if the bandwidth saved could bring Channel 5+1 to PSB 2, with E4 also brought to PSB2 in Wales and ITV3 to PSB2 outside the Channel Islands.
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Old 10-12-2012, 18:50
Ray Cathode
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Four weeks today until Text on 3 / Text on 4 disappears.

I wonder if the bandwidth saved could bring Channel 5+1 to PSB 2, with E4 also brought to PSB2 in Wales and ITV3 to PSB2 outside the Channel Islands.
I think D3&4 will get a ninth stream used for ITV3 except in the Channel Islands where they could get ITV4. Elsewhere ITV4 will replace ITV3 on SDN perhaps vacating Arq B for the new UKTV stream.

The text on 3/4 and Rabbit bitrate vacated is no more than approx 250kbps which is probably only enough to guarantee the 720kbps public teletext capacity reservation. There has been sufficient null packets (or unused capacity) on D3&4 for a ninth stream for years.

If ITV and C4 rationalise their D3&4 coding by using common multiplexers for all 9 streams instead of the present split mux where each broadcaster codes its own 48.5%, then they would be even more bitrate efficient.

To get more than 9 streams on D3&4 would require a change in FEC rates like the COM muxes adding 3Mbps or enough for a tenth stream.
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Old 10-12-2012, 19:08
freetoview33
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It would seem logical to move another channel over would save money considering the silly amounts ITV and Channel 4 spent in the first place!
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Old 12-12-2012, 18:28
kruador
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It would seem logical to move another channel over would save money considering the silly amounts ITV and Channel 4 spent in the first place!
On what? The D3&4 multiplex was basically gifted to them in 1997. There are no fees. The ITV companies' payments to the Treasury, and Channel 5's, have been slowly reduced to the point that they are now paying £10,000 per year (per region, in ITV's case) and the percentage of qualifying advertising revenue has been reduced to zero.

Channel 4 is a creation of the law, not an independent company. There was no bidding for a franchise, unlike the ITV companies and Channel 5. In effect Channel 4 has the same status as the BBC, although the BBC has a fully independent charter rather than having been created by an Act of Parliament. (Broadcasting Act 1990, sections 23-27.)

The Broadcasting Act 1996 allows for a Percentage of Multiplex Revenue to be charged for all multiplexes, but that rate is also set at zero. Ofcom have announced an intention to apply Administered Incentive Pricing but no details yet on how that might work.

The ITV companies and Channel 4 are certainly paying the transmitter site owner, Arqiva, for access to the transmission network, but it's about the same as the BBC are paying for their SD multiplex. The three commercial multiplexes pay rather less for access, as they only transmit from 80 sites rather than the full 1100-odd.

ITV plc might end up paying some money for another slot on D3&4, because the law grants ITV licence holders and Channel 4 48.5% of the multiplex each. Channel 5's capacity is explicitly listed as coming out of the ITV companies' share. Similarly, S4C explicitly comes out of Channel 4's share. Television Multiplex Services (Reservation of Digital Capacity) Order 2008, section 8. No doubt some of the money would go to Channel 4, while some would go to STV and UTV, though it would likely only reduce the payments for networked content.

Obviously if by shuffling content around, ITV plc could give back their slot on ArqB (currently used by ITV4), they would make some saving.

Finally, don't forget that ITV Digital was a joint-venture subsidiary of Carlton and Granada, before they bought up all the other ITV companies and before they merged to form ITV plc. Whatever capital went into ITV Digital was used to pay off the creditors when it went bust, at a small percentage of what was owed. The whole point of the separate company was to firewall Carlton and Granada's risk, so that ITV Digital's failure wouldn't take down the parent companies. The Football League tried and failed to recoup their losses from Carlton and Granada.
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Old 12-12-2012, 19:13
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The millions ITV and Channel4 spent for slots on other muxes
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Old 12-12-2012, 20:10
jj20x
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It would seem logical to move another channel over would save money considering the silly amounts ITV and Channel 4 spent in the first place!
Not to mention making it available to a wider audience.
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Old 12-12-2012, 20:20
jj20x
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Four weeks today until Text on 3 / Text on 4 disappears.

I wonder if the bandwidth saved could bring Channel 5+1 to PSB 2, with E4 also brought to PSB2 in Wales and ITV3 to PSB2 outside the Channel Islands.
The bandwidth saved is minimal but perhaps added to other spare capacity and with more efficient multiplexing, an extra channel could be squeezed in. I would expect ITV/C4 as joint owners of the multiplex to bring one of their own channels, not one of a competitor. In any event, Channel 5's commitment to DTT isn't encouraging, they have already failed to bring their HD channel to the platform twice.
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Old 12-12-2012, 20:33
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Fees paid for carriage on other multiplexes.

...the law grants ITV licence holders and Channel 4 48.5% of the multiplex each. Channel 5's capacity is explicitly listed as coming out of the ITV companies' share. Similarly, S4C explicitly comes out of Channel 4's share.
Which was the best situation at the time. If there is now a possibility of adding a further stream, it allows ITV to return to a 50:50 split across most of the country. The situation with S4C has also changed. Now that it is being funded from the licence fee, it would possibly make sense to move it over to the BBC mulitiplex, with carriage arrangements similar to those of BBC Alba in Scotland.
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Old 12-12-2012, 20:46
a516
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Fees paid for carriage on other multiplexes.



Which was the best situation at the time. If there is now a possibility of adding a further stream, it allows ITV to return to a 50:50 split across most of the country. The situation with S4C has also changed. Now that it is being funded from the licence fee, it would possibly make sense to move it over to the BBC mulitiplex, with carriage arrangements similar to those of BBC Alba in Scotland.
Except S4C has adverts, and carrying a channel with ads would be a no-no on the BBC-A multiplex. Legislation would have to be changed with regards the reservation for public teletext if a ninth stream was added, so the rules could be changed giving ITV and C4 four streams each (except Wales where C4 gets a slot for E4 on SDN instead).
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Old 12-12-2012, 23:16
jj20x
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Except S4C has adverts, and carrying a channel with ads would be a no-no on the BBC-A multiplex. Legislation would have to be changed with regards the reservation for public teletext if a ninth stream was added, so the rules could be changed giving ITV and C4 four streams each (except Wales where C4 gets a slot for E4 on SDN instead).
I suppose it depends on whether Ofcom intends to advertise for a replacement public teletext carrier, which seems unlikely. As for the legislation being required for carriage on the BBC mux, it would simply be carriage not incorporating S4C into the BBC. After all, the BBC carried the 2 Sky Sports channels pre-switchover. These changes can be quickly pushed through when required.
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Old 12-12-2012, 23:22
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I suppose it depends on whether Ofcom intends to advertise for a replacement public teletext carrier, which seems unlikely. As for the legislation being required for carriage on the BBC mux, it would simply be carriage not incorporating S4C into the BBC. After all, the BBC carried the 2 Sky Sports channels pre-switchover. These changes can be quickly pushed through when required.
S4C is still not part of the BBC, and there will be enough people in the Welsh Assembly to ensure it remains an independently run service. The BBC carried Sky Sports pre-DSO on Mux B via BBC Free to Air Ltd. BBC-A is a special multiplex and doesn't fall under the same legislation that the other five multiplexes fall under.
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Old 12-12-2012, 23:57
jj20x
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S4C is still not part of the BBC, and there will be enough people in the Welsh Assembly to ensure it remains an independently run service.
S4C wouldn't become part of the BBC from being carried on the BBC mux any more than it becomes a part of ITV and Channel 4 by being carried on D3&4.

The BBC carried Sky Sports pre-DSO on Mux B via BBC Free to Air Ltd. BBC-A is a special multiplex and doesn't fall under the same legislation that the other five multiplexes fall under.
Which is why I said changes can be pushed through fairly quickly when required. With the government wanting to sell off further spectrum and concentrate existing services on fewer multiplexes, I can't see there being much objection.

The original plan for S4C post switchover was actually for it to be carried UK wide on BBC public service multiplexes. That was prior to the BBC multiplexes being reorganised to allow for the HD multiplex. http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/bin...ponses/s4c.pdf
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Old 14-12-2012, 11:22
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From an email from one of the team at Ofcom:

The allocation of capacity for the PSB multiplexes is subject to Reservation of Capacity orders and, as such, is a matter for the Department for Culture, Media, and Sport. [...]

However, there is plenty of capacity for data services (which take up very little capacity on the multiplexes) in the event that other DTAS providers apply for a licence. The use of this data capacity would be entirely a commercial arrangement between the DTAS provider and the Multiplex Operator, and not within Ofcom’s remit.
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Old 15-12-2012, 14:49
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From an email from one of the team at Ofcom:
This is true but arrangements for gifted capacity aren't set in stone and can and have been changed e.g. for DSO. There's no real reason to continue to enforce a data capacity reservation if there is zero chance of a commercially viable data service.

Ofcom have to act within their remit although they can recommend changes.
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Old 15-12-2012, 15:53
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This is true but arrangements for gifted capacity aren't set in stone and can and have been changed e.g. for DSO. There's no real reason to continue to enforce a data capacity reservation if there is zero chance of a commercially viable data service.
That's yet to be proven, given that it hasn't been re-advertised since Teletext's licence was revoked.
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Old 15-12-2012, 16:59
jj20x
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That's yet to be proven, given that it hasn't been re-advertised since Teletext's licence was revoked.
Except it wasn't revoked. Teletext withdrew their service because it was no longer commercially viable. http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/jersey/h...00/8366937.stm

Even before that Ofcom had stated that with the growth in internet usage and the arrival of nationwide digital television in 2012 means there may no longer be any reason for Teletext to have any public service remit. http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009...-remit-at-risk
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Old 15-12-2012, 17:21
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