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Kate Bush- The Red Shoes.


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Old 09-11-2012, 22:20
Hav_mor91
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Probably her most overlooked, ignored, an unappreciated of all her albums. I too gave it a hard time and often snubbed and criticised her more commerical efforts when in fact as is clear with each new listen she created and uplifting though provoking album with some of her strongest work on there. Whilst it's not her best is it her worst probably not. So for any Kate fans what are your thoughts ?
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Old 09-11-2012, 23:16
Josh Pinder
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Im about to finally own it but i do like the songs even more now from looking on YT

Its like all my Holy Trinity (Madonna, Bowie, Bush) some of the most "oh its okay but....oh i dont understand this...oh why did they do this" albums i tend to overlook i much later find out a new layer to it that seduces me in....like Madonna with American Life recently...Bowie with Diamond Dogs recently also and now Bush with Red Shoes <3
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Old 09-11-2012, 23:22
Gordy68
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I love Kate, I have my own holy trinity of Kate, Weller, and Bowie going on at the moment. I like artists who people on here would mostly dismiss. I think it's healthy.
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Old 09-11-2012, 23:23
Hav_mor91
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Im about to finally own it but i do like the songs even more now from looking on YT

Its like all my Holy Trinity (Madonna, Bowie, Bush) some of the most "oh its okay but....oh i dont understand this...oh why did they do this" albums i tend to overlook i much later find out a new layer to it that seduces me in....like Madonna with American Life recently...Bowie with Diamond Dogs recently also and now Bush with Red Shoes <3
I agree its her album that most ignore or just deem beneath her. I agree her more artistic and experimental side had waned after Hounds Of Love and this was her most commercial and straight forward ever with some great guests i.e Prince, Clapton and even Lenny Henry. I feel she also wasn't heavenly invested in this album due to her personal life and it suffered but overall some truly outstanding moments and a surprisingly cohesive body of work but thankfully this wasn't her swan song Aerial and snow much more befit her as the queen of avant garde
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Old 09-11-2012, 23:45
Littlegreen42
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It is overlooked but it also contains IMO her worst song Why Should I Love You? which in itself is ironic as the demo version is beautiful.

A lot of the songs are messy though, which Kate admits was her fault as she was moving into the digital age of recording. The whole thing sounds 100x better on the remastered analogue version, especially Eat The Music and Big Stripey Lie.
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Old 09-11-2012, 23:54
Hav_mor91
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It is overlooked but it also contains IMO her worst song Why Should I Love You? which in itself is ironic as the demo version is beautiful.

A lot of the songs are messy though, which Kate admits was her fault as she was moving into the digital age of recording. The whole thing sounds 100x better on the remastered analogue version, especially Eat The Music and Big Stripey Lie.
love why do i love you ? I agree though overall the production isn't great it's a problem The Sensual World also suffers from. But overall a pretty decent body of work i would place it higher than Lionheart even.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:32
Newtonsaid
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She is such a wonderful artist
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:59
noodkleopatra
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Always loved The Red Shoes - like many of you, huge Kate Bush fan. In all credit to Kate, she hasn't made an album which I "haven't really gotten on with".

As for people dismissing Kate, I don't think a lot do, do they? I mean, possibly those who are young and only care about what's in the charts now - but I've always thought Kate was one of those, unlike many other artists I like, that was sort of universally appreciated? Even those who aren't fans or don't listen to her often surely do not have a bad word to say against her?
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:16
lil lexie
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I actually prefer the album in context to The Line, the Cross and The Curve.
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:46
Hav_mor91
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Always loved The Red Shoes - like many of you, huge Kate Bush fan. In all credit to Kate, she hasn't made an album which I "haven't really gotten on with".

As for people dismissing Kate, I don't think a lot do, do they? I mean, possibly those who are young and only care about what's in the charts now - but I've always thought Kate was one of those, unlike many other artists I like, that was sort of universally appreciated? Even those who aren't fans or don't listen to her often surely do not have a bad word to say against her?
Same her even Director's Cut i can get along with every so often And i agree Kate like her music or not is appreciated for her influence and her legacy and for just be a lovely person. But i was talking about The Red Shoes being dismissed and ignored
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Old 10-11-2012, 13:21
little-monster
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I absolutely adore this album. Madonna has Erotica, Rihanna has Rated R and so on but Kate has The Red Shoes. It is just such an underrated album from her beautiful collection but at the time fans and critics just did not get it. It is such an emotional record but also very creative. I love the short film she did, even though Kate herself does not like it. Truly stunning album.
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Old 10-11-2012, 13:45
Littlegreen42
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This is a beautiful Music Box version of The Song Of Solomon -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBPPNtcAHTY


Repeating my earlier point... Why should I Love You? is ruined by Prince, apparently he removed most of Kate's work and chucked a load of his mess onto it, which is why it hardly sounds like a Kate track.
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Old 10-11-2012, 13:49
Finny Skeleta
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I actually prefer the album in context to The Line, the Cross and The Curve.
That I will agree with.

I've done it plenty of times before when I've watched films with an excellent soundtrack, such as Easy Rider or Suspiria, rushed out and bought the OST only to find that it doesn't have quite the same impact when you're driving to work on a grey Wednesday morning.

This one is the other way around though. I've never been able to get along with The Red Shoes, it just doesn't conjure up the vivid images of her previous albums, but when I watched The Line it all made a bit more sense.

It's not a great film and it's not a great album but put them together and they work pretty well.
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Old 10-11-2012, 13:51
Hav_mor91
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I absolutely adore this album. Madonna has Erotica, Rihanna has Rated R and so on but Kate has The Red Shoes. It is just such an underrated album from her beautiful collection but at the time fans and critics just did not get it. It is such an emotional record but also very creative. I love the short film she did, even though Kate herself does not like it. Truly stunning album.
I disagree that it's her underrated masterpiece that would go to The Dreamingbut as you said a truly stunning collection of songs.
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Old 10-11-2012, 14:05
lil lexie
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That I will agree with.

I've done it plenty of times before when I've watched films with an excellent soundtrack, such as Easy Rider or Suspiria, rushed out and bought the OST only to find that it doesn't have quite the same impact when you're driving to work on a grey Wednesday morning.

This one is the other way around though. I've never been able to get along with The Red Shoes, it just doesn't conjure up the vivid images of her previous albums, but when I watched The Line it all made a bit more sense.

It's not a great film and it's not a great album but put them together and they work pretty well.
The songs featured in the film work better with that visual backdrop. And perhaps for that reason alone, it illustrates the problem I have with the album, it lacks that ability to truly engage. It's lack of direction, cohesion and horrible tinny production values really don't help. As you say, not a great album, nor a great film but together they seem to function better.
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Old 10-11-2012, 14:42
Cloudbuster
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I actually prefer the album in context to The Line, the Cross and The Curve.
Exactly! I have watched Kate's film of this many times and the album works better when you listen to it, having viewed the images.

Sensual World remains my all-time favourite and most played of Kate's albums, but The Red Shoes is high on my list of plays too. And so Is Love, Eat The Music, Moments of Pleasure, Why Should I Love You?, Top of The City, Constellation of the Heart and the sublime Lilly. What's not to like?
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Old 10-11-2012, 18:58
babelogue
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The Red Shoes is actually my favourite Kate album. I think it's brilliant lyrically.

The Dreaming, Hounds of Love and The Sensual World all have really intricate sonic landscapes, but with The Red Shoes, it's like she decided to let the lyrics do the talking rather than the music.

And You're The One is just beautiful. I love this album, a great addition to Kate's catalogue.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:24
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I listened to this album properly for the first time in absolutely ages yesterday and I do think it is much more worthy than most fans seem to. It has some clunkers, sure, but with songs like Top of the City, And So Is Love, Moments of Pleasure, You're the One, and the title track it does NOT deserve the slating it gets. No, it is not her best album imho but it has some amazing tracks that show why Kate Bush is held in as high regard as she is. I wish so much Kate had toured this album rather than make The Lion, The Cross, and the Curve. Imagining the staging, costumes, and dance possibilities gives me chills.

I've not listened to the director's cut version and don't intend to but I love the original release in spite of its faults.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:30
Hav_mor91
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I listened to this album properly for the first time in absolutely ages yesterday and I do think it is much more worthy than most fans seem to. It has some clunkers, sure, but with songs like Top of the City, And So Is Love, Moments of Pleasure, You're the One, and the title track it does NOT deserve the slating it gets. No, it is not her best album imho but it has some amazing tracks that show why Kate Bush is held in as high regard as she is. I wish so much Kate had toured this album rather than make The Lion, The Cross, and the Curve. Imagining the staging, costumes, and dance possibilities gives me chills.

I've not listened to the director's cut version and don't intend to but I love the original release in spite of its faults.
That was the conclusion i came to it's an album that takes time to grow. And of course the production is lacking and some songs are most definitely stinkers the album as a whole shines and stands proudly at the lower end of her albums. I think if it was toured and giving a bit more promo people may remember it more fondly in honesty i prefer it to Lionheart.
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:11
maninthequeue
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Nope as a huge Kate Bush fan, I still rate it as her worst proper studio album of new material.

Around the time Tori Amos (Little Earthquakes); Bjork (Debut) & PJ Harvey (To Bring You My Love) all released better "Kate Bush albums" than Kate herself did with The Red Shoes.

However, "Moments of Pleasure"; "And So Is Love" and "You're the One" are great.
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Old 05-01-2013, 13:05
PJ68
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I love this album - the title track is brilliant.
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Old 05-01-2013, 14:46
nathanbrazil
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Why should I Love You? is ruined by Prince, apparently he removed most of Kate's work and chucked a load of his mess onto it, which is why it hardly sounds like a Kate track.
Yes, which is so strange, as the combination should have produced something quite brilliant. I suppose that neither artist understood the other, and cancelled out each others talent.
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Old 05-01-2013, 19:27
Glenn A
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Her mother was dying, her relationship had ended, her attempts to break into acting were a failure, it's no wonder The Red Shoes is her worst received album as her life was in a mess. Mind you I find The Dreaming to be hard work( Rolf Harris!).
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Old 05-01-2013, 19:37
stud u like
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"The Red Shoes" is very bubbly and warm. It reminds me of a cup of hot chocolate on a cold night.
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Old 05-01-2013, 23:13
unique
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Repeating my earlier point... Why should I Love You? is ruined by Prince, apparently he removed most of Kate's work and chucked a load of his mess onto it, which is why it hardly sounds like a Kate track.
this might be interesting reading for a few, it's by michael koppleman who was one of prince's engineers at the time.

before his quote he was asked if he every got to speak to kate personally

I did, but only for a short moment. I was at home and the phone rang. I didn't always answer the phone in those days, because I was severly overworked. So my answering machine picked it up and I heard Julie, from Paisley Park, saying "Mike, I got Kate Bush on the phone and she has some questions about what format they should send things over on, and I thought it would be best if she talked to you. I, being an admitted Kate Bush fan, freaked, but picked up the phone and talked to Julie. She says, Kate, I have Prince's engineer Michael Koppelman on the phone and he can answer your questions. Meanwhile, my answering machine is still recording it all, and blaring loudly. I tell my then girlfriend to shut if off just as Kate comes on and says Hello Michael? (so to this day, if I could find it, i have a tape of Kate saying hello to me...). The conversation consisted only of her asking me if they could send 24-track tapes and what series SSL computer disks. I also asked her if she was going to come to Minneapolis, and she said I don't think I'm wanted out there right now. Then we basically said good-bye and hung up.
It's funny because Prince knew I was a huge KB fan. He was too, but not like me. The first time I asked him if he liked Kate Bush he said, she's my favorite woman. I also made him a tape of all the KB b-sides, which ****ing rule. When The Sensual World came out he had someone go get it and we listened to it in the studio. He didn't dig it that much, but I knew you can't always tell right away with a Kate album. TSW grew on me, but it is still not her best effort. This Woman's Work is a masterpiece, though, and makes the whole album worth it. But I digress. Prince is weird, and a couple stories in this post prove it. I may be tooting my own horn here, but Prince has a weird ego. I think *part* of his motivation to work with Kate was the fact that I worshipped her, and he knew it would impress me that he could call her on the phone and work on her music and shit.
ANYWAY, what led up to the phone conversation above: one day Prince's assistant, Therese, told me as we were talking on the phone that Kate Bush had called. Therese also knew I was a big Kate fan. Then, in the studio that day, Prince said, guess who I talked to today. Me, being stupid and unable to keep my mouth shut, said, Kate Bush? Prince got a little miffed, and said How did you know that? And I said Therese told me, and he said, hmm, I should dock here for that. At that point I knew I ****ed up and tried to say, no, she just knew I'm a big fan. As a side note, I told Therese that Prince was a little pissed that she had told me that, and she apologized to him. Therese is a really cool person. So, Prince tells me that he and Kate are going to work on a tune together. He also told me that while they were talking he told her that his engineer would rather work with her than him. (I thought, wow, Prince and Kate Bush talking about me!).
ANYWAY, Eventually the phone call above occured and the tapes arrived and I put them up and got a rough mix up. I still have a cassette of it. It ****ing rules. It is 1 million times better than the lame disco Prince put on it. There was, of course, no disco on it before Prince got his hands on it. So Prince comes in and listens to it. And the brutality began. First we sampled the drum thing and synced it up to my Powerbook so we could do MIDI. At that point, we essentially created a new song on a new piece of tape and then flew all of Kate's tracks back on top of it. So now we could run the sequencer and add all the keyboards that Prince put on. So Prince stacked a bunch of keys, guitars, basses, etc, on it and then went to sing background vocals.
When Prince does vocals, he sits right at the recording console with a microphone hanging over it and does his own punching in and out. So he kicks everyone out of the room when he sings. It took him a few hours and then he called me back in and played me the thick, multi-tracked background vocals he had put on. Now, as we all know, the song in question goes "Of all the people in the world why should i love you". When Prince called me back in and played me what he had done, he had sung "All of the people in the world", instead of Of All. I said, isn't it OF all the people in the world? Not ALL of? He said, no, we had a little talk about that, in his cocky way, as if to say he had talked with Kate about changing the words to "all of" instead of "of all".
The next day, I was waiting at my hotel room for the call to go to the studio when the assistant engineer, Sylvia Massy, called and said Prince was in the studio doing vocals. I was surprised; i was always called well in advance of Prince going into the studio. When I got there he was changing all the vocals to "Of All", and was sampling them in himself, which is something he would normally never do himself. My interpetation? He made a mistake, as humans do, and didn't have the guts to admit it. That's weird. So I sorta poked my head in at one point and asked him if he needed any help, and we went on with the day. Eventually he had me do a rough mix, and when he had approved it, we sent it to Kate.
I got a call from Therese a few days (or weeks, I forget) later. She said, Kate Bush said to destroy all copies of that mix. I said, huh? Did she not like it or something? (my heart rejoiced, because I hated what Prince did to it) She said, I don't know, she just said to destroy them. Later on Prince told me, Kate Bush liked what we did. She said it sounded very American. So at that point I wasn't sure if she was even going to use it. We sent the tapes back and she sort of split the difference with what he sent and what's on the record. Kate, if you read this, stick the pre-Prince version of Why Should I Love You out on something. And let me do a remix of Not This Time.
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