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Old 11-11-2012, 09:40
noise747
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Went over to a mates place yesterday and his son have got a surface.

I had a play.

Hardware looks well built, keyboards are a bit flimsy mind you and I don't know how long they would last. Screen is really good, very clear.

But that is about the only good thing I can say about the device to be honest.

What is it for? i found the machine basic and you are stuck with basic metro style apps, ok he will be able to get office free, have not got it on there yet.

If you use it with the keyboard, there are no proper left and right buttons on the pad, instead you have to press the bottom left or bottom right of the pad. using the touch screen with the keyboard attached is awful as the unit is so light it falls over.

i also noticed that at times the machine would just not do anything and then after a couple of seconds decide to do what you asked it to do.

A lot of money for what it is to be honest, for that price you can get a fully fledge laptop, i can kind of understand if someone wants to take it out with them, but this lad is keeping it at home.

His reason for buying it is because he is fed up of all the crap on his laptop, with being tracked by google and others, getting fed up of viruses. Do he think that is not going to happen on the surface?

i am not one for tablets anyway, i don't see the point in them, never have and i doubt ever will, paying that amount of money for a machine that is that limited seems senseless, but it is up to people I suppose.
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:05
IvanIV
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That's tablets for you. You just go and point at things.
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:15
TheBigM
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His reason for buying it is because he is fed up of all the crap on his laptop, with being tracked by google and others, getting fed up of viruses. Do he think that is not going to happen on the surface?
Well the only software that can run on a Windows RT device are metro-style apps that are checked by microsoft before being put on the store and are fully sandboxed when they run anyway.

There are no plug-ins allowed anymore in IE, no other browsers allowed and virus writers can't use their Win32 code on Windows RT machines either.

So pray tell, where is the malware going to come from?
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:06
noise747
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Android was suppose to be the same, but people still get viruses, IOS, the same.

If the surface took off and I mean really took of, i bet someone would be able to get stick a virus or malware. if surface is so secure, then why is MS bringing some updates out to do with security?

I agree, it is safer than your standard computer, but I think I would prefer to have a bit more control.
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:08
noise747
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That's tablets for you. You just go and point at things.
Yeah, i know i only used it for 10-15 mins, but that was enough to say, no thank you.

It is a large pad as well, not as small as i thought it would be.
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:27
IvanIV
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Android was suppose to be the same, but people still get viruses, IOS, the same.

If the surface took off and I mean really took of, i bet someone would be able to get stick a virus or malware. if surface is so secure, then why is MS bringing some updates out to do with security?

I agree, it is safer than your standard computer, but I think I would prefer to have a bit more control.
Android is a complete anarchy when it comes to app sideloading. So one only has to publish some free porn app and people gladly install it on their devices iOS and W8 have a certification process for the apps. I do not know how it works with iOS, but a Windows RT app must declare in its manifest what features of the OS it is using or the APIs fail. I found out the hard way when trying my app to access Intranet at work. So there's information that says that the app is potentially dangerous and needs more attention. There's sideloading for developers for a limited period of time and sideloading for enterprises. That removes a lot of threats. Also anybody submitting an app for certification must prove their identity, so that is another obstacle.
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:32
Stuart_h
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Android is a complete anarchy when it comes to app sideloading. So one only has to publish some free porn app and people gladly install it on their devices iOS and W8 have a certification process for the apps. I do not know how it works with iOS, but a Windows RT app must declare in its manifest what features of the OS it is using or the APIs fail. I found out the hard way when trying my app to access Intranet at work. So there's information that says that the app is potentially dangerous and needs more attention. There's sideloading for developers for a limited period of time and sideloading for enterprises. That removes a lot of threats. Also anybody submitting an app for certification must prove their identity, so that is another obstacle.
I believe Google are looking to implement better security regarding sideloading etc ......
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Old 11-11-2012, 18:42
neo_wales
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I am really looking forward to getting a Surface Pro as I need to run more standard software so the basic Surface is no good for me.

Noise, get yourself a 10" android tab, your used to the interface so it won't be as big a culture shock as W8 was/is for you, only about 100 on ebay and they are great fun to use.
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Old 11-11-2012, 20:43
noise747
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Android is a complete anarchy when it comes to app sideloading. So one only has to publish some free porn app and people gladly install it on their devices iOS and W8 have a certification process for the apps. I do not know how it works with iOS, but a Windows RT app must declare in its manifest what features of the OS it is using or the APIs fail. I found out the hard way when trying my app to access Intranet at work. So there's information that says that the app is potentially dangerous and needs more attention. There's sideloading for developers for a limited period of time and sideloading for enterprises. That removes a lot of threats. Also anybody submitting an app for certification must prove their identity, so that is another obstacle.

if the surface was that secure, then why is MS, bringing out a security update?



I don't deny that it is safer security wise than a normal computer, but what ever you do, don't let your guard down.
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Old 11-11-2012, 20:45
neo_wales
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Don't they bring out security updates for Windows then?
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Old 11-11-2012, 20:48
noise747
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I am really looking forward to getting a Surface Pro as I need to run more standard software so the basic Surface is no good for me.

The surface pro seems a more sensible idea, at least you be able to run windows software on it, but then it depends what speed the CPU is and how much memory they stick on it.

I certainly hope it will have a better keyboard than the two that are available for the surface.

BTW, there is a problem with some of the flat keyboard for the surface.

Noise, get yourself a 10" android tab, your used to the interface so it won't be as big a culture shock as W8 was/is for you, only about 100 on ebay and they are great fun to use.
Why? I don't need one and i still can't see the point in them. W8 was not that big of a culture shock.
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Old 11-11-2012, 20:59
Gormond
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I believe Google are looking to implement better security regarding sideloading etc ......
Damn those guys at Google for not stopping us doing what we want with our devices....
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Old 11-11-2012, 21:39
IvanIV
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if the surface was that secure, then why is MS, bringing out a security update?



I don't deny that it is safer security wise than a normal computer, but what ever you do, don't let your guard down.
Nothing is perfect, it communicates with the outside world, you can copy files on it, you can download the files. But they removed/minimised obvious threats like installing code from unreliable sources. That makes it harder for the malware, but not impossible. It takes care of the casual hackers, but there are clever ones still in the running. Without any restrictions you would only need a bit of social engineering to install anything on the devices.
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Old 11-11-2012, 23:47
Zack06
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I believe Google are looking to implement better security regarding sideloading etc ......
Preliminary code for an on-board native anti-virus program is reportedly present in 4.2. I imagine that it will arrive with the next release K(ey Lime Pie)...
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Old 12-11-2012, 00:40
slick1two
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The surface pro seems a more sensible idea, at least you be able to run windows software on it, but then it depends what speed the CPU is and how much memory they stick on it.

I certainly hope it will have a better keyboard than the two that are available for the surface.

BTW, there is a problem with some of the flat keyboard for the surface.



Why? I don't need one and i still can't see the point in them. W8 was not that big of a culture shock.
Surely a pro version is just a little too close to being a laptop? When you have a fully featured windows on it, isn't a nice compact laptop or netbook running windows 8 a better option and better spec for probably the same price?
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Old 12-11-2012, 00:45
Gormond
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Surely a pro version is just a little too close to being a laptop? When you have a fully featured windows on it, isn't a nice compact laptop or netbook running windows 8 a better option and better spec for probably the same price?
They seem to use ULV chips so are basically an ultrabook with no keyboard, I would rather have an ultrabook tbh.
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:16
Stuart_h
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Damn those guys at Google for not stopping us doing what we want with our devices....
I dont think their intention is to stop sideloading

i believe it is more something to do with comparing sidelioaded versions against 'true' versions and warning you if the apk didnt match. im sure its actually much cleverer than that but .....
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:53
Voynich
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It's a bit of a mystery to me as well. If I was going the MS route, I'd rather have a proper laptop for the same money.
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Old 12-11-2012, 15:33
noise747
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Nothing is perfect, it communicates with the outside world, you can copy files on it, you can download the files. But they removed/minimised obvious threats like installing code from unreliable sources. That makes it harder for the malware, but not impossible. It takes care of the casual hackers, but there are clever ones still in the running. Without any restrictions you would only need a bit of social engineering to install anything on the devices.
Also why put defender on a machine that is suppose to be secure?
A virus can't run on the machine according to you, so what is the point in having software running to look out for viruses? If defender kept a check on what is going out, like passwords, pin number, credit cards, addresses, then i could understand, but I don't think it does that.

The problem is, only one bit of coding needs to get onto the machine and once it is there, then it can be made to do anything.
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Old 12-11-2012, 15:35
noise747
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Surely a pro version is just a little too close to being a laptop? When you have a fully featured windows on it, isn't a nice compact laptop or netbook running windows 8 a better option and better spec for probably the same price?
I agree, I have no intention of getting a surface pro, but i was just saying it is a better option than the surface, even if it is over priced for a windows machine.


In fact if I was going for something in that market, I would get a netbook and stick Mint on it.
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Old 12-11-2012, 16:08
artnada
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His reason for buying it is because he is fed up of all the crap on his laptop, with being tracked by google and others, getting fed up of viruses. Do he think that is not going to happen on the surface?

e.
User error. Not his laptop's fault. He'll screw that tab up and blame it again.

Poor tabby :'(
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Old 12-11-2012, 18:22
The Sack
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Android was suppose to be the same, but people still get viruses.
Erm thats cos its wide open and the apps can access every part of the OS unlike Windows 8 apps which are (has already been said) sandboxed
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Old 13-11-2012, 20:36
noise747
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User error. Not his laptop's fault. He'll screw that tab up and blame it again.

Poor tabby :'(

I agree, i don't get any of the problems he gets, i use the same browser, well almost and yet he blames the browser and yet says it is a good browser.

Oh well, not my problem.
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Old 14-11-2012, 11:34
IvanIV
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Looks like they did something right with the Surface:

Surface RT Display Technology Shoot-Out


They compared iPad3 Surface RT, and Galaxy Tab 10.1 and the Surface did very well.
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Old 14-11-2012, 22:50
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I have had mine two weeks and I love it to bits, so much so that I haven't even powered on my iPad during that time. if you are all about apps look elsewhere it will be a long time before Surface gets anywhere near the number of apps that iOS has.

But it is a beautifully crafted machine, it may not run legacy apps but this is a full PC on a ARM processor. IE renders every webpage like it would on a desktop (although not always a good thing in mobile terms) so much thought has gone into Metro that you can see the genius in combining classic Windows and metro.

The touch keyboard looks like it would never work but it does an excellent job I am astounded how well it works with the Surface. It is so refreshing not to have to find a app to do every little thing. Want to transfer files out them on a USB stick, portable HDD or simply copy them across your network.

There is lots of things that need improving, notifications is a mess, the mail app is pretty barebones and treats unread email in a very strange way. They need to unify updates from the Desktop and Metro but I am sure they will get their eventually.
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