You really are going to question every member of the public until you get your answers., aren't you?

Do you think the phone company will let you put a question on the end of every phone vote asking "But whyyyyyyyy didn't you vote for Kimberley?"

Nope, the opposite. It's muddying the waters if people who weren't going to vote for her add in opinions of her, rather than getting answers from those who might have done.

I have a clipboard if you'd like to borrow it.

I think it's pro hangover. Artem had the same thing with Holly, the partnership was constantly being compared to Artem & Kara and coming up short.

The Kimberley and Pasha partnership would probably not be picked over and scrutinised if it wasn't for the fact that that he and Chelsee worked so well. It's unfair because its not Kimberley's fault, but I guess it's human nature.

Yes, she has and they do tell us, every dance.

I liked Holly and Artem. I think she got a bad press on the forum because people would blame her if things went wrong. She was lazy, didn't try etc. But they were terrific to watch because of the personality clashes. I loved Artem's growliness more than his Fern-loveableness. Kara is before my time

The Chelsee thing is probably right. But it's still weird that the votes are so at odds with Kimberley's ability to dance and to feel the dance, which is improving. Plus she and Pasha have a good chemistry on ITT and in training. They're good people getting on and doing kung fu.

No ta for the clip board, I'll stick with shocked wailing, 'You must be out of your miiiiiiiiiind!!'

Care to backup your statement? Her day job is not a model. She's gone a long way because she has a strong work ethic. From what I've read, she took on the role of a manager in the early years of Girls Aloud when they needed one.

The current situation of undertaking Strictly, Girls Aloud and a solo album simultaneously is further example of this work ethic.


Well, that doesn't account for several of the other remaining contestants....

But it's more than that. They tell us if she's made a mistake. They don't tell us when her entire performance of a routine has been bordering on bad. I expected the judges to maul her cha cha in week 1 and they came out with nothing but praise for her. Same with her salsa. It's the same thing they're doing with all the couples this year - they're talking up who they think are most popular (Louis, Kimberly) so they can perpetuate this myth that it's The Best Strictly Line-Up Ever! when really it's one of the worst years.

That all being said, I don't think she should have been anywhere near the dance-off this early and if I have to vote next time to keep her out of it, I will. She should stay until the Richards and Nickys are gone. Because while the bar is low this year, there is still a bar.

Their scores reflect what the Judges think. I personally don't think any of her performances have been bordering on bad. Her Cha cha cha and Salsa have been among the better ones on this years show when you look at some of the others, but that's just my opinion of course.

I feel the same. Pasha is just not registering this series, and he had a great series last year with Chelsee. Kimberley seems a bit dour to me. As to why she was in the bottom 2, anyone think it could have been the dance? VW's aren't that exciting generally and had she danced a latin doubt she'd have been there.

The answer, in my opinion, is simple.

If she was in the bottom three on the leaderboard, she'd have sailed through. People thought she was safe and so didn't bother to vote.

Dani was in the exact same position on the leaderboard as Kimberley. Dani is my favourite and I assumed she was safe. The thought of voting for her didn't even cross my mind because I thought she'd sail into next week due to being second.

I'm glad I was right about Dani, but it's woken me up that being up at the top of the leaderboard isn't enough. I'm sure Kimberley will sail through the next few weeks without landing in the bottom two now that her fans know being at the top means nothing without votes.

I disagree completely with your worst season evar assessment - series seven was much worse with everyone bar Jade either being boring, lacking in something technically or just plain rubbish - at least six contestants - Richard Dunwoody (hate to say as he seemed lovely and hard working), Joe Calzaggy, Jo Wood (feel harsh saying it on personality grounds but an interview with Brendan in the Metro confirmed that even she knew it to be the case), Lynda Bellingham, Rav Wilding and Craig Kelly were completely hopeless - this week proved that there are at least ten contestants at either a reasonable standard or capable of improvement.

'Really, really'? Methinks you protesteth just a little too much ...

We've all seen the judges doling out undeservedly high scores to their favourites and being hypercritical about other contestants they don't want to succeed. It was blindingly obvious in Series 6 and not much better in Series 7.

The judges are not some kind of independent force who behave idiosyncratically. They are paid to make their comments - and their bosses are the producers. And that's not a 'crackpot conspiracy theory' () - it's a fact. Whether or not you choose to ignore that is up to you ... but I'd say we will see in the coming weeks just how desperate they are to hang on to Kimberley - watch her place on the leader board.

I don't see what that has to do with anything I said. I said the judges aren't given the results of the public phone vote - which they aren't. They don't need to see that to know who might be suffering in the public vote, they only need to see who's in the bottom two and who escaped despite having lower scores.

They may not be given the detail of the public vote - but they will be directed by their bosses, the producers, as to who they need to mark generously to counter the effect of the public vote. We have seen that in previous series.

This week is a bit of a watershed for this series, as it's the first time someone so high up the judges' leader board has clearly had so little support from the public (indeed, as I understand it from others doing their sums on other threads, Kimberley must have polled the fewest votes from the audience to end up in the dance-off). Whether or not the judges start overmarking her to put her at the to of the leaderboard remains to be seen ...

To be honest, im a Denise fan, but I wouldnt have voted for her because id have assumed she was safe so maybe others did the same for Kimberley.

Id much rather vote for other ones i like such as Dani or Lisa coz id have assumed theyd be in more danger than Denise (although wouldnt expect them to be bottom 2)

Shows you cant get complacent with your favourites no matter how well theyve done

The danger is, the worst dancers attract a lot of votes because anyone who likes them or would rather someone else goes before them will mass vote for that person because they know theyre going to need the votes if theyre to get through, meaning the other dancers who people dont threat about voting for because they appear safe end up suffering as a result

Fair enough - I don't argue with that. But I think that if a celeb starts getting overmarked, it's only after they've appeared in the bottom two (the overmarking in series 6 only began when Rachel and Vincent started falling there, culminating in Lisa's ridiculous 80/80 in a final where we already knew she was the least popular contestant...).

Pamela was constantly over marked and never appeared in the bottom 2, I believe.

Oh I loved Pamela, she was my fave that series with Kara

She was popular (in the semi-final she was definitely more popular than Scott and possibly more popular than Gavin - but it's not as if Gavin deserved to make the final), but ultimately not as popular as Kara or Matt. We will never know how she did each week in the vote, of course, but she did get out of difficult positions on the leaderboard in weeks 5 and 7 - and if she was overmarked, then it does not necessarily follow that that was because she was unpopular - TPTB may have liked the "can a 60-year-old grandmother win Strictly?" angle, for example.

I was just replying to your remark where you stated that celebs only start getting overmarked once they drop into the bottom 2, I don't believe that was true in Pamela's case. She got more undeserved 10s imo than any other contestant on Strictly.

Wow, I don't get this thread at all. I actually think Kimberley is a much better Latin dancer than Ballroom. I thought her salsa was really good. I have to admit that I don't find her frame strong enough in the ballroom, her left arm is always at a funny angle and her hand is clamped onto Pasha's back instead of shaped. I think she's too far to the left as well and her head tend to tilt up rather than out to the left. There was all kind of hopping nonsense in that VW as well, and an odd moment where she had one arm on Pasha's back and one arm out, but the left arm was pointing up and the right arm down which looked weird.

So I'm just wondering if people just don't rate her as a dancer, and think she's a bit overmarked?

Actually thinking back, I wasn't a fan of Chelsee in the Ballroom, and I'm wondering if the common factor is Pasha? I find him a bit too lyrical a dancer which might extend to his teaching.

I doubt it, she hasn't been overmarked and though she isn't a brilliant dancer, she's one of the better ones. There are at least three other contestants who would have to be rated as worse dancers than her - even by the most biased of fans and a couple more that she is on a par with.

I totally agree with you on this one. I loved his partnership with Chelsee but he doesnt seem to have the same relationship with Kimberley. He moulded Chelsee from a giggly girl to a great and confident dancer and I think thats why their partnership worked. He doesnt seem as happy with Kimberley but perhaps I am being biased as I really loved him with Chelsee.

Oh definitely, I didn't mean to imply that she doesn't deserve to be there. She's in the top 4 for sure. For me she's probably on a par with Dani, with Louis and Denise being roughly equal to each other. I definitely would like to see Richard, Victoria, Nicky, Lisa and Michael all go out before her. I didn't mean to single her out for overmarking - I think they have all been overmarked at least once. I was just commenting from my own personal perspective of what each mark should be worth.

Chelsee had a vulnerability about her, and was younger in many ways. Kimberley seems very self-sufficient. I kind of get the impression that however fond & cordial their working relationship, Pasha is just one more of her "people" - her personal trainer, her hairdresser, her makeup artist ...