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Is the show's attempt to be "cool" and "young" alienating viewers?


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Old 12-11-2012, 22:35
Vodka_Drinka
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It's something that is being discussed on another thread on here at present, how Christoper Maloney is popular because he's the only one singing songs that the viewers have heard of. It's something that's been bothering me for weeks, the show is now too focussed on being young and current with the acts singing songs that no one over the age of about 14 will have heard of.

Not only are the terrible song choices alienating viewers they are also to hindering the chances of the acts in the competition and not showcasing them to the best of their abilities.Take Ella for example, I think that she is being hindered by the fact that Tulisa is so obsessed with being urban and trendy that she's not giving her songs that suit her, If she were to be given a 50's or 60's "standard" she'd probably destroy everyone else in the competition vocally. Likewise Jahmene would be phenomenal singing an old soul or Motown number

The X Factor is supposed to be a family show that appeals to everyone from young kids to OAP's and everyone else in between but this current fixation they have with being modern and edgy is IMO one of the factors in ratings being down.
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Old 12-11-2012, 22:47
C14E
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I think they could do with getting back to the cheesy irrelevant old songs. Not everything needs a fancy new production. Too much rap as well. James Arthur just isn't family viewing on a Saturday night.

The ratings don't suggest any particular trend in viewership - it's down pretty evenly across the board. But I think a lot of the shows success was in being a karaoke show! It used to be that the record label worried about the acts after the show. You'd have a Musical Director (Nigel Wright) and Tim Byrne was always around in some capacity. But that was it. Now, however, you've got a 4 strong "A&R Team", a Head of Music (a former Managing Director of a Universal group label) and a Senior Music Producer backed up by 4 more music production teams.

It might be that they need to hand the show back to the TV people to return to a more mainstream ground.
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Old 12-11-2012, 22:49
Amaretto2
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Yes, the show has become obsessed with pandering to the Twitter teengirl generation. Clearly that's the direction the producers want to take the show in and they will stubbornly continue down this path no matter how low ratings plummet.

Probably doesn't help that the show's idea of current and "cutting edge" is the likes of James Arthur, Union J and MK1
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Old 12-11-2012, 22:51
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If it's true that Chris is topping the poll every week, then the answer would be a resounding "yes".

It seems the producers don't know their own audience and by sneering at Chris and his music, they're not doing themselves any favours.
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Old 12-11-2012, 22:56
Vodka_Drinka
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I think they could do with getting back to the cheesy irrelevant old songs. Not everything needs a fancy new production. Too much rap as well. James Arthur just isn't family viewing on a Saturday night.

The ratings don't suggest any particular trend in viewership - it's down pretty evenly across the board. But I think a lot of the shows success was in being a karaoke show! It used to be that the record label worried about the acts after the show. You'd have a Musical Director (Nigel Wright) and Tim Byrne was always around in some capacity. But that was it. Now, however, you've got a 4 strong "A&R Team", a Head of Music (a former Managing Director of a Universal group label) and a Senior Music Producer backed up by 4 more music production teams.

It might be that they need to hand the show back to the TV people to return to a more mainstream ground.
The show has forgotten who it's audience is and that's families - kids, their parents and their grandparents all watching it together. There needs to be something for everyone and right now they only seem to be catering for young, urban trendy types. This show will never find a serious "credible" recording artist who will be taken seriously by the critics, and the sooner they get that the better.

It's time the show went back to basics, and honestly get rid of that silly bint Tulisa. Her inability to understand anything other than "urban" music is clouding her judgement big time.
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Old 12-11-2012, 23:01
Vodka_Drinka
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If it's true that Chris is topping the poll every week, then the answer would be a resounding "yes".

It seems the producers don't know their own audience and by sneering at Chris and his music, they're not doing themselves any favours.
A few years ago Chris would have been favourite to win the show. It was created for people like him who'd been slogging for years trying to make it in the industry. I don't like him, he's not my cup of tea but he's the only one appealing to a certain section of the viewers.
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Old 12-11-2012, 23:08
EdgarK
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As a chap of 53 who hasn't paid much attention to the singles chart or to more than the tiniest fraction of the music that stands any chance of appearing there since about 1974, I think the current balance is about right. The show needs to relate to current musical trends if it's to stand much chance of fulfilling that part of its remit that involves finding and promoting unknown or little-known talents. Audiences and entrants alike would have dwindled away long ago if the most successful contestants had been a sequence of Steve Brooksteins, releasing an album or two that related only to the state of music within the show itself and had little or no interaction with the current state of popular music, then vanishing like last year's snow.

This particular aging guy, at least, is perfectly happy hearing songs whether current or from ten or twenty years ago that haven't come to his attention before. The marketplace for music is minutely divided these days, but it seems to me that the show's main focus needs to be on styles that sell, and sell in numbers, today: and that there'll always be only a very limited market for singers able to reprise, and try to bring something new to, the "classics" of forty or fifty years ago. I'd as soon have a tooth pulled as watch SCD, but maybe its job is an easier one to perform because rather few people are passionate about dancing, or think about or practice it day by day, or have any particular commitment to one style rather than another.

Just my twopenceworth...
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Old 12-11-2012, 23:11
xeo
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They know where the money lies after the show. It's fine if 'older' viewers want acts more like Christopher or Jahmene to win but history has shown they never do well post-show.

I think Simon would rather have a show with 8-10 million viewers which produces a number of global artists for Syco than a show with 12-14 million which produces a load of failures. However that doesn't mean he doesn't want both the ratings and global stars
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Old 12-11-2012, 23:13
bebop
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The last two years have seen the show trying to be more "relevant" or "credible". Which is fair enough, but its also seen a slump in ratings.

A show which was once a ratings juggernaut is now struggling to beat it main rival, Strictly.

If its on at peak viewing hours its got to appeal to everyone, but the musical content now is so "current" that only younger viewers will appreciate it. So really its no surprise that its failing so badly.

Will they go back to more popular, classic song choices? Who knows, it may already be too late.
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Old 12-11-2012, 23:18
Vodka_Drinka
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They know where the money lies after the show. It's fine if 'older' viewers want acts more like Christopher or Jahmene to win but history has shown they never do well post-show.

I think Simon would rather have a show with 8-10 million viewers which produces a number of global artists for Syco than a show with 12-14 million which produces a load of failures. However that doesn't mean he doesn't want both the ratings and global stars
It's all well and good trying to be relevent and modern, but the people they are trying to appeal to wouldn't be seen dead watching the X Factor and certainly not buying the music of anyone associated with it.
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Old 12-11-2012, 23:24
bebop
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I think Simon would rather have a show with 8-10 million viewers which produces a number of global artists for Syco than a show with 12-14 million which produces a load of failures. However that doesn't mean he doesn't want both the ratings and global stars
Whats more profitable, the TV show or the recording artist? And considering that most acts that win get dropped after their first album it does seem that the process doesn't really produce what they're looking for. In fact the most sucessful acts to come out of the show have generally not won it, 1D, JLS, Olly Murs.
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Old 12-11-2012, 23:31
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I think you are spot on, OP. I can't stomach Chris but the show has become so desperate to reel in the younger viewers it feels so alienating and has done for me since Cher and One Direction's year. I'm not even old - only 29.
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Old 12-11-2012, 23:34
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It's a pig with lipstick !
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Old 12-11-2012, 23:46
EdgarK
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But what do we get when the show isn't trying to be "cool" and "young"? Mary Byrne, Sami Brookes, Marcus Collins, Christopher. Doesn't seem to me to be the route to a sustainable mass-audience show in 2012. Ella to my mind is already bizarrely dated to the point that very few 16 year old girls will identify at all with the way she's presented: she's said to be struggling in the vote and it doesn't surprise me in the least.
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Old 12-11-2012, 23:55
duncann
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I'm an older viewer and I don't like Chris's style of singing. I think he would've been equally naff and uncool 30 years ago - he's just a New Faces/cruise ship singer. It's not his material but the way he sings it.

Whatever age you are, whatever the style or material, you recognise raw talent. My issue with James Arthur is I don't think he can sing, nor has he any other redeeming qualities for me. It's not about what he sings or whether I know it or not.

I think Ella and Jahmene can sing. My favourite performances are when they sing something classic in a contemporary style or just knock something contemporary out the park, I don't have to know it. As an older viewer though I don't really want to hear them sing old songs and certainly not in an old style because I still want to keep up to date and anyway I've heard all those oldies for years now, I still want to hear new stuff! Bring on new talent.

That said, it IS a TV show, it's for families, it's mainstream. Too edgy will backfire. It's a TV talent show, it's ITV, not an obscure specialist channel, and it's not a club in South London!
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Old 13-11-2012, 00:00
C14E
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While I agree with the premise to a point, I don't think Christopher is the emodiment of what the show should be about. Every now and again they need to produce someone that can sustain a career to give the whole thing a purpose. None of the winners (and I include Steve Brookstein) have ever been quite as cheesy or irrelevant as Chris Maloney.

There is a happy balance. Series 5 was full of acts that had real potential beyond the show as well as a token teenybopper act. But Alexandra and JLS were doing ballads and some old songs thus spreading their appeal. There were no Chris Maloney's that year but it was hugely successful. You had Diana as well who was a bit different to what they'd had before but still accessible in a way that I don't think rap music is to the general population.

Series 10 was the most successful series of the show in ratings and in terms of producing successful acts. Even Cardle, while not exactly popstar material, wasn't as out of date as Maloney.
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Old 13-11-2012, 00:05
C14E
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If it's true that Chris is topping the poll every week, then the answer would be a resounding "yes".

It seems the producers don't know their own audience and by sneering at Chris and his music, they're not doing themselves any favours.
A few years ago Eoghan Quigg was dominating the public vote week in week out. I'm not sure we should draw too many conclusions at this stage.
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Old 13-11-2012, 00:08
EdgarK
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Series 10 was the most successful series of the show in ratings and in terms of producing successful acts. Even Cardle, while not exactly popstar material, wasn't as out of date as Maloney.
True, but surely Mary was?
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Old 13-11-2012, 00:17
satanicseranade
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Sort of agree with you Vodka
Although I wouldn't mind say a few Kasabian tunes say. It's current, but also has some quality.
It's just some of the current/urban cover acts that would alienate many viewers. Wonder if gangnam style is going to be done next week?!!
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Old 13-11-2012, 00:22
C14E
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True, but surely Mary was?
She was of a similar style certainly. I think she did it better (particularly the early weeks) and was generally a more endearing character. And for some reason it just wasn't quite as cheesy. The songs were old, the style was dated but cheesy wasn't something I'd necessarily have associated with Mary.

Ultimately there is room for that kind of act on the show. They'll not win but they can be useful. One of the strengths of X Factor over Idol is that the top 12 should be a bit easier to distinguish because they're not all solo acts in their late teens/early twenties.

Come to think of it this may be a role best filled by the middle aged lady. The best examples would be Rowetta, Brenda, Mary and maybe even Ruth to an extent. Nikki Evans was another one but she was a bit more objectionable as a personality, I felt. Robert Allen (2006) is probably the best male example I can think of among the guys. Brookstein was certainly a bit cheesy but he did win the show.

In short, I think there's a leap between singing classic songs in an older style and being Christopher Maloney. And that's part of my problem with the producers just now - they're just not casting it right for the finals. Rylan is another example of them just getting it all wrong and clinging on to him for some unknown reason.
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Old 13-11-2012, 00:26
jackbell
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True, but surely Mary was?
I think women can get away with more middle of the road, classic pop than men. Shirley Bassey is considered a great singer, Englebert Humperdink is considered cheesy. Tom Jones is somewhere in between - although it helps that his material these days tries to be credible than at anytime during his career. In concert he still has to play his old cheeseball hits Delilah, Green Green Grass Of Home and Sex Bomb.

Dolly Parton is another 'mature' singer who is more respected than her male counterpart Barry Manilow.

And of course there is Susan Boyle. The ultimate talent show winner. She went onto much greater success than her male equivalent, Paul Potts. Mary was the X Factor Susan Boyle.
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Old 13-11-2012, 01:13
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They know where the money lies after the show. It's fine if 'older' viewers want acts more like Christopher or Jahmene to win but history has shown they never do well post-show.

I think Simon would rather have a show with 8-10 million viewers which produces a number of global artists for Syco than a show with 12-14 million which produces a load of failures. However that doesn't mean he doesn't want both the ratings and global stars
What he'll end up with though is a show with 8m viewers and nobody having a career after the series ends.

Louis and Tulisa are on dodgy ground by sneering at the 'Heart FM generation' when many of their viewers listen to that music.
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Old 13-11-2012, 01:17
C14E
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What he'll end up with though is a show with 8m viewers and nobody having a career after the series ends.

Louis and Tulisa are on dodgy ground by sneering at the 'Heart FM generation' when many of their viewers listen to that music.
If Christopher Maloney makes the Heart FM playlist next year I'll eat all the Queen's hats.
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Old 13-11-2012, 01:18
jackbell
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The demographic for a show like the X Factor is a very wide family audience. So to appeal to all of that audience is a Big Ask. That's why you need a decent selection of all types of music. A bit for everyone.
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Old 13-11-2012, 01:24
Arnold1
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Tulisa is what's alienating viewers. Get rid of her and you instantly gain 1 million viewers.
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