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Why was disco ignored by british musicians? |
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#101 |
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your original comment was" wow. not many would prefer the bee gees most cheesiest of material over abbas class pop. but hey ho, everyone has differing tastes i guess.". my reply was "i'm sure millions of people would disagree with you there. how many millions of people bought those bee gees disco songs but never bought a single abba song?". that's what started you off bickering about this. i didn't state it as a fact. i just said i was sure that millions of people would prefer the bee gees to abba, simply due to the large number of sales involved. let's ask you outright for a clear answer, do you still honestly think at this moment in time that there are not millions of people who prefer the bee gees to abba? there aren't 2 million or more people who prefer bee gees to abba? considering the sales of the saturday night fever soundtrack alone, there must surely be millions of people who bought that album but never bought an abba record, don't you think? ![]() i cited with chart facts covering this period that abba were more popular then the beegees. i said that you do not know, how many beegees fans never bought an abba record.... THAT was speculation, guesswork, on your part. it still is. Quote:
because people would watch a disco film with disco music, the main tracks written by the bee gees, and bought the album even though they didn't like the bee gees? so this album unlike every other album in history was bought by people who didn't like the music on it?
ridiculous.people bought the album because they liked the music, liked the film, or liked the scene. any successful album or single is so because its popularity transcends the fan base of the act concerned. in fact there were probably very few beegees fans prior to snf, as they had been quiet . do you think that everyone who bought that awful bryan adams track, was a bryan adams fan? or that everyone who bought that titanic track by celine was a celine doin fan? no... they liked the film/song. t Quote:
but that has no bearing on my comment "i'm sure millions of people would disagree with you there. how many millions of people bought those bee gees disco songs but never bought a single abba song?". many more people clearly bought abba records than bee gees records, so many more people prefer abba to the bee gees if following that train of thought, but it doesn't mean that some people prefer the bee gees to abba does it? you are adding 2 and 2 and coming up with 5
didnt say that. i said several times that you do not know how many people bought bee gees but didnt buy abba, I reversed that and said i/we do not know how many abba fans never bought the beegees... but if abba sold twice as much, theres double the chances that abba fans didnt buy the bee gees!
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#102 |
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Join Date: Oct 2005
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yes. don't you? i don't imagine many under 10s buying singles however. in fact i would imagine there would be more singles bought by OAPs then under tens. don't you? think about this logically. under tens mean zero to 9 year olds. at what age do you think kids start being aware of particular artists they like? 5? 6? 7? 8? earlier? and then consider at what age they would be interested in actually obtaining music, having a cd or mp3 (tapes/records in the older days). then consider the simple financial logistics of a ten year old and their purchasing ability. few of them will have disposable income that they would be prepared to spend on music. due to other logistical issues, the use of itunes for under tens is of course limited (ie. credit card/parental guidance etc). on the other hand OAP's consist of people from 60 years old and onwards. the life expectancy is increasing in the UK, and teenagers enjoying music in the 60s are now becoming the OAP's of today. thus you have a huge age range from 60 to 100+ compared to a small age range of 1-9, and then the financial considerations of disposable income of a pensioner (not all of which are skint these days) compared to a young child's pocket money. who do you think buys more singles? under 10s or OAPs? hilarious! oaps buying singles! pmsl... under tens DO buy singles, or have them bought for them. my 9 year old neice is a belieber. i bought my first single (dead end street) aged 9. told you, i work in schools, at playtime gone are the old traditional games, stringo, bulldog, games we used to play...kids are rehersing dance routines. they have aerobic work-outs to pop music. so yes, under tens purchase more singles then oaps.... HOWEVER im sure oaps purchase more music then under tens. Quote:
no, i'm not saying that at all. again you are making another sweeping generalisation. marketing is a lot more sophisticated. target audiences are measured and put into categories and promotions are aimed towards those categories. an artist like adele will have a larger age range and perhaps aimed at an older audience whereas rizzle kicks will have a smaller target audience and a younger one. but how many per annum % wise are 'old' artists singles compared to those aimed at the young demograph? m8, you can dress it up and intelectualise it all you like, and yes i am making a generalisation...but the singles market has always been aimed at the young audience, % wise they make up the greatest clientelle.have a look at the current UK top 40 singles chart and you will see songs that pretty clearly have an older target audience than teenagers or even early 20s. such as ACDC and gabrielle aplin, who's audience is more likely to be 40-50 year old housewifes who liked frankie back in the day and now shop at john lewis and marks and sparks, and instead of vivienne westwood logo t shirts they'll be wearing vivienne westwood debenhams range of maternity wear. do you think teenagers are buying robbie williams more than 40 year old women who were fans of take that in the early 90s? just look at the audience who turn up at his gigs, or likewise take that. look at madonnas audience today, 40+ year old mothers wearing pink cowboy hats at concerts. people no longer seem to consider themselves too old to buy music or wear t shirts designed for people half their age HOWEVER ... i do take your point that there are alot of middle aged women buying robbie, westlife, etc acts like that and i do take your point that there are some tracks charting that appeal to the older person, but nevertheless, the bulk of singles are aimed at the young. well i have no doubt that's what you think. but have a look into stats and logistics. p2p piracy has made a clear dent in those stats, as are people not stopping buying music when they get older Quote:
that wasn't in relation to the header specifically, but your quote "the facts are though, that the punk generation of musicians and most fans DID ignore, abandon, disco in favour of funk, jazz funk, latin, reggae/ska and even rockabilly and afro beats. " - which is just another generalisation based on your own experiences without considering others
true. of course i was making a generalisation based upon my life experience. if you want to be that pedantic, then no, i, we, didnt literally ignore disco, but it was all but ignored in favour of those styles. the chart stats for the early 80's support my view, so 'others' cant be far from agreeing with me, because disco DID go out of favour.not sure tbh why you are making such a big issue out of this.... im guessing its because youve learnt something about your favoured style of music, disco, which you do have a respectable great knowlege of. but its like youve learned or been taught the theory, the positives, but not what was in reality a cheesy style of dance . the late 70's was a hotbed of styles, of which disco was only 1. it was big amongst its fans, but ignored as the cheesy soft dance it was by rock fans, mods, rastas, punks, etc etc etc Quote:
bickering about nothing. you couldn't have said it better. you do tend to bicker about the smallest points when it's shown you are wrong. what was the point of trying to argue against a comment that some people preferred one thing to another?
oh the irony.Quote:
but discos peak was in the 70s when it was the most popular genre in the world for a time. likewise punk peaked in the 70s, although considerably less popular than disco. how much funk, jazzfunk, reggae and ska were in the UK singles charts in the 80s? like for like you won't find a considerable amount of those records selling more than disco in the same period, likewise punk. these were genres with a relatively small market in the UK compared to other styles, whilst disco was the predominant genre for a while
not bothered about the rest of the world. what goes on anywhere else is of no concern to me unless i start a thread on world music. any further referance to worldwide will be considered as a wind up.did you see that programme on 60 years of the charts? the reason why not many punk records charted was because they didnt press enough! lol.. massive fail. punk less popular then disco?... not going to ressurect that one again, if you chose to believe that then thats your business. true, those styles didnt sell as much as disco in its heyday. this makes my original question all the more poignant. but the chart stats show that 'we' dropped disco in favour of these other styles. i think its because disco was seen as naff, uncool, cheesy. snobbery? maybe. Quote:
one fan? if you took every single member of this site they still couldn't reflect between them the full extent of UK clubs at the time. it would be like taking your views and experiences and thinking everything else was the same as that was the extent of what you experienced. some clubs will play one thing, others will play another. even on different nights of the week clubs can change the style of music played. if you went to a club tonight and found dub reggae playing it doesn't mean that club always played dub reggae or other clubs played it too. the following day they could be playing techno, and the next day hip hop
doesnt mean its wrong though! ![]() Quote:
they key part is highlighted. one person can't know what everyone else likes or gets up to .. but it fits in with chart stats, it fits in with other posters, it fits in with 'yoof tv'.. yes its my perspective on the life i lived... cant be far out though.. no they don't. even if they did, it doesn't make your view a fact. and it's not went unnoticed that you are trying to change the subject from disco in the 70s when it was at it's peak (as was punk) to the 80s when it's peak was well over (as was punk). you wouldn't look to the 80s and ignore earlier periods when discussing the impact of motown and soul would you? nor would you talk about hip hop and ignore the 80s onwards as you would be ignoring the main periods of the genre eh? the question i posed originally wasnt about the 70's, it was about why we abandoned disco by the early 80's. Quote:
ah, the show written by the guy who did that queen musical, named after a cliff richard song, had a cliff richard song as the theme tune, had a number 1 hit single with cliff richard, and were killed by cliff. how many cliff richard references were there in that show? one of the characters was a cliff richard fan too. how cool. great show, but remember it was fiction, and whilst ben elton was comedy gold in the 80s, he's changed his tune these days. we will rock you is the antithesis of what he spoke about in the 80s. same with most of the comic strip and "alternate" comedians. one day i turned on the tv in the kitchen whilst doing dishes and adrian edmonson was dressed like a farmer doing a serious show about the countryside and cheese and hay and stuff like that, a bit like a fast show sketch, but without the comedy
erm... the cliff referance was a piss take, its because cliff had suddenly become cool on the student curcuit, the programme was one giant (brilliant) piss take.well you wont like alternative comedy/ comedians, it/they didnt like disco. alternative comedy was alternative to the 70's racist, sexist, homophobic comedy that saturated our screens. this included the sleazy medallion men that frequented discos trying to 'score' with younger 'chicks'... gross. ade edmonson is a brillant presenter... warm, engaging, entertaining, i watched his shows about the dales and his cooking trip. great tv, great person. why shouldnt he? did you expect him to be 'vyvian' for ever? hes an accomplished musician who tours with his band, folking up punk songs amongst others. |
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#103 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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Its hand-bags at fifty paces!!! F*ck me, this is full on!
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#104 |
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Join Date: Sep 2008
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Its hand-bags at fifty paces!!! F*ck me, this is full on!
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#105 |
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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you confuse the issue. you bring into the equasion the beegees worldwide sales. whats that got to do with 'british musicians'? its clear i was talking uk. or are you going to go through every thread on ds and apply worldwide stats?
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i cited with chart facts covering this period that abba were more popular then the beegees. Quote:
i said that you do not know, how many beegees fans never bought an abba record.... THAT was speculation, guesswork, on your part. it still is.
i've answered this same question at least once before. have a look what i said before, as the same answer remains. it's not pure speculation, it's based on sales statsQuote:
ridiculous. no shit sherlock. people bought an album because they liked the music? what amazing insights are you going to come up with next? the bee gees made the music that people liked, which is why they bought it. the bee gees also had fans and hits before that album. that's why they were asked to contribute to the soundtrackpeople bought the album because they liked the music, liked the film, or liked the scene. any successful album or single is so because its popularity transcends the fan base of the act concerned. in fact there were probably very few beegees fans prior to snf, as they had been quiet . Quote:
do you think that everyone who bought that awful bryan adams track, was a bryan adams fan? or that everyone who bought that titanic track by celine was a celine doin fan? no... they liked the film/song. t Quote:
didnt say that. i said several times that you do not know how many people bought bee gees but didnt buy abba, I reversed that and said i/we do not know how many abba fans never bought the beegees... but if abba sold twice as much, theres double the chances that abba fans didnt buy the bee gees!
but what does that have to do with what i said? just because on act sells twice as many as another, doesn't mean that the lower selling act still can't have millions of people who prefer that act to the bigger selling one. take a low selling act like "the The" who have sold a tiny percentage of the sales of abba. you will still find millions of people who prefer "the The" to abba. the stats of abba's sales don't reflect accurately the stats of another artists fanbase, just like any other set of stats. because apple sold $2b of product doesn't mean millions of people can't prefer sony products, even if sony old sold 10th. or the same with cars. ford probably sold 20 times what aston martin sold, but you will still find a large number of people who prefer aston martin to ford, regardless of the different between sales. the two things don't correspond in the way you suggest. this is just basic analysing
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#106 |
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hilarious! oaps buying singles! pmsl...Quote:
under tens DO buy singles, or have them bought for them. my 9 year old neice is a belieber. i bought my first single (dead end street) aged 9. Quote:
told you, i work in schools, at playtime gone are the old traditional games, stringo, bulldog, games we used to play...kids are rehersing dance routines. they have aerobic work-outs to pop music. so do you have any stats to back this up? it flies in the face of the information i mentioned before that show a tiny amount of potential buyers in one age group, with a restricted disposable income, compared with a huge amount of potential buyers in another age group with a far higher amount of disposable incomeso yes, under tens purchase more singles then oaps.... HOWEVER im sure oaps purchase more music then under tens. Quote:
but how many per annum % wise are 'old' artists singles compared to those aimed at the young demograph? m8, you can dress it up and intelectualise it all you like, and yes i am making a generalisation...but the singles market has always been aimed at the young audience, % wise they make up the greatest clientelle. Quote:
HOWEVER ... i do take your point that there are alot of middle aged women buying robbie, westlife, etc acts like that and i do take your point that there are some tracks charting that appeal to the older person, but nevertheless, the bulk of singles are aimed at the young. Quote:
well i have no doubt that's what you think. but have a look into stats and logistics. p2p piracy has made a clear dent in those stats, as are people not stopping buying music when they get older
yes, that's what i said. do you agree with this now?Quote:
true. of course i was making a generalisation based upon my life experience. if you want to be that pedantic, then no, i, we, didnt literally ignore disco, but it was all but ignored in favour of those styles. the chart stats for the early 80's support my view, so 'others' cant be far from agreeing with me, because disco DID go out of favour.
yes, that is my point. disco wasn't ignored and you have generalised too muchQuote:
not sure tbh why you are making such a big issue out of this.... im guessing its because youve learnt something about your favoured style of music, disco, which you do have a respectable great knowlege of. but its like youve learned or been taught the theory, the positives, but not what was in reality a cheesy style of dance . the late 70's was a hotbed of styles, of which disco was only 1. it was big amongst its fans, but ignored as the cheesy soft dance it was by rock fans, mods, rastas, punks, etc etc etc Quote:
oh the irony.
i guess it's ironic you don't get it, but i explained above. you've bickered about points when you have went off on a tangentQuote:
not bothered about the rest of the world. what goes on anywhere else is of no concern to me unless i start a thread on world music. any further referance to worldwide will be considered as a wind up.
well that's a strange and narrow minded way to look upon life, particularly if you have an interest in music, as so much great music comes from outside of this country, and so much music from this country is enjoyed outside it. it is interesting that you ask why the UK ignored disco when the biggest disco album of all time in the entire world was primarily formed by a UK actQuote:
did you see that programme on 60 years of the charts? the reason why not many punk records charted was because they didnt press enough! lol.. massive fail. Quote:
punk less popular then disco?... not going to ressurect that one again, if you chose to believe that then thats your business. Quote:
true, those styles didnt sell as much as disco in its heyday. this makes my original question all the more poignant. but the chart stats show that 'we' dropped disco in favour of these other styles. i think its because disco was seen as naff, uncool, cheesy. snobbery? maybe. as i mentioned either here on on your punk thread, simple logistics had a part to play, the expense of making disco records, and the new technology allowing music to be made much cheaper on electronic music. also as disco was very much an on trend style, as with most things that are in fashion, the trend can only last so long before people want to try something else. even jeans had a period when they went off trend in favour of cargo pants in the 90s. you went from 501s being the biggest selling jean in the world at the end of the 80s and start of the 90s, to people avoiding wearing them for fear of looking like jeremy clarkson. few other styles of music have been on trend in such a way, and those that did were usually short lived. dubstep for example was on trend for a period and is now considered passe and on it's way out as it has reached the mainstream with glee and taylor swift having dubstep influences Quote:
doesnt mean its wrong though! but more importantly it doesn't mean anything other than one persons view
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.. but it fits in with chart stats, it fits in with other posters, it fits in with 'yoof tv'.. yes its my perspective on the life i lived... cant be far out though.
well that's what you may think, but as myself and others have mentioned, it's very far out from what others think. you have a dislike of considering anything outwith the UK which really limits any understanding of things on a larger scaleQuote:
eh? the question i posed originally wasnt about the 70's, it was about why we abandoned disco by the early 80's. Quote:
erm... the cliff referance was a piss take, its because cliff had suddenly become cool on the student curcuit, the programme was one giant (brilliant) piss take.
so cliff was cool? ![]() Quote:
well you wont like alternative comedy/ comedians, it/they didnt like disco. alternative comedy was alternative to the 70's racist, sexist, homophobic comedy that saturated our screens. this included the sleazy medallion men that frequented discos trying to 'score' with younger 'chicks'... gross. Quote:
ade edmonson is a brillant presenter... warm, engaging, entertaining, i watched his shows about the dales and his cooking trip. great tv, great person. why shouldnt he? did you expect him to be 'vyvian' for ever? hes an accomplished musician who tours with his band, folking up punk songs amongst others. |
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#107 |
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Join Date: Oct 2005
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what is funny about that? you are 55 years old. a woman 5 years older than you will be an OAP. you are only about 10 years away from being an OAP yourself. are you going to stop buying music when you hit pensionable age? or are you only going to buy albums? does the idea of not buying a particular format simply down to age not seem strange to you?
m8, the last single i bought was the rasmus, in the shadows, 8 years ago.... i am on of the few people of my generation who even half heartedly takes any notice of the singles chart (and thats mainly to prop up my knowlege for pop music quizes). older people DO buy music, but NOT singles. the only reason you are arguing the toss here is to give credit to singles sales, which prop up your pro-disco stance. in reality singles are and especially then, bought by 'da kidz', and the cheese end of the market by people with easily satisfied tastes. just who bought westlife? mercury prize winning musicians? or soppy women (lol) . it aint much different, the bee gees were not cool, they were ridiculed. Quote:
so do you have any stats to back this up? it flies in the face of the information i mentioned before that show a tiny amount of potential buyers in one age group, with a restricted disposable income, compared with a huge amount of potential buyers in another age group with a far higher amount of disposable income
nope. neither do you. please show sales figures showing that oaps buy singles and not conjecture. kids in playgrounds DO reharse their dance routines, oaps in homes dont. Quote:
i don't know. what stats do you have? however regardless of the percentage aimed at young people, the figures i was discussing were the actual sales figures. a different thing what sales figures? the 220 mil the beegees sold are the only stats you have provided.again, as i mentioned before, regardless of the audience that tracks are aimed at, it's the actual sales figures i'm talking about Quote:
well that is precisley what i wonder about yourself. you started this thread, similarly you turned a thread about punk into one that discussed disco more than punk.
wrong.... it wasnt me that raised disco in that thread, it was someone else who said something like "forget punk, disco is where it was at"Quote:
you posed the initial question. i gave the answers and you questioned those. i've only replied to your comments and questions. i've provided you with information and knowledge. i've shared my knowledge and experiences built up from years of listening to music, buying it, dj'ing and talking to other music lovers, dj's and people who helped create the music, so their experiences and opinions were shared with me so i can in turn pass on their experiences. i wasn't taught this stuff in a college. i had people who played at woodstock tell me face to face what it's like to be 17 and play their first festival, or turn down an invite to join jimi hendrix's band. i've had the guy who put together the sex pistols talk in depth about it. i've had a nice chat with another pistol. met a beatle. spent time in the studio and on stage with one of the biggest acts of the 80s. one of my friends tours with some well known disco acts. i've worked with a number of the most well known dj's in the world and chatted in depth about their music and other music, and they don't consider disco to be cheesy, in fact i've met so many dj's of different genres, and not one thought disco was cheesy as it played a big part in dance music as we know it today, and it was also a big part in hip hop music, two of the most popular styles of club music in the world. i have no doubt that some people dislike it, but then i think more people dislike punk or metal than disco, as disco is a much more accessible style of music
i respect your view, i dont agree with it, after all, this is the internet and theres no way of varifying your claims.Quote:
well that's a strange and narrow minded way to look upon life, particularly if you have an interest in music, as so much great music comes from outside of this country, and so much music from this country is enjoyed outside it. it is interesting that you ask why the UK ignored disco when the biggest disco album of all time in the entire world was primarily formed by a UK act
i am interested in music from other countries, but this thread, this forum, unless otherwise stated , is about uk (and closely related us) music.Quote:
yes i did. but although that is someones opinion, even if they pressed more, how much more would really have sold?
we simply do not know. but sell more they would have, so punks chart reprisentation in the late 70's is not a true measure of its real popularity. they might have sold 1 more copy, they might have sold a million. we will never know, so we have to use the charts as they were.[quote] well the sales stats are undisputed proof that disco was considerably more popular than punk in the uk and the rest of the world. so you can argue the toss about that one and never change the facts[/qoute] but imho it was more popular because all the nice, twee, people who didnt like rock (in any form), the mums, the soul fans, the old philly fans, and gay people bought it, that is a much larger demograph then the 'trendies'. always has been, always will be, but its the trendies that throughout the history of the uk charts that have driven the styles, the fashions, which have made our musical heritage second to non for variety and innovation. Quote:
as i mentioned either here on on your punk thread, simple logistics had a part to play, the expense of making disco records, and the new technology allowing music to be made much cheaper on electronic music. also as disco was very much an on trend style, as with most things that are in fashion, the trend can only last so long before people want to try something else.
so by the time 'our' musicians had access to synths and were able to create a disco sound, it was simply out of fashion?... id not argue against that. you could have said that two weeks ago though...lolQuote:
but more importantly it doesn't mean anything other than one persons view 'others'?... you are the only one disagreeing with what i put foreward as my life experience, others must either agree or respectfully understand that its my account of how i saw things. well that's what you may think, but as myself and others have mentioned, it's very far out from what others think. you have a dislike of considering anything outwith the UK which really limits any understanding of things on a larger scale but the larger scale is of no importance, its the uk where i was, where my interest lies, WE were the world leaders. Quote:
so cliff was cool? students were strange....so was rolf harris and gary glitter
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i like all sorts of comedians. it doesn't matter to me what someone thinks or says as long as it's funny. it doesn't matter if they have a view that's different from mine. i say all sorts of things to make people laugh, most of which is very different to my true thoughts on a subject, but if i said what i really felt it wouldn't be very funny. it would probably be insanely boring. however my point was more that the "alternative" comedians of then are now the ****ing boring old bastards of today. i have a great memory, but even i can't remember the last time lenny henry was funny
so youd laugh at a black person being called a 'j**** b****' , a 's****' or n***** ? a gay person being laughed at because hes gay? a female being seen as nothing more then a sex object? ... because thats how it was in the 70's. alternative comedy was acxtually real comedy, laughing at clowns in a laurel and hardy style, taking the mick out of themselves as characters and not at a minority group.Quote:
i don't expect him to be the same or even similar to the types of character he is most well known for, but he's became the opposite of everything those people stood for in the 80s. him and tony robinson and dawn french, they've turned into the most boring people on the planet. gordon brown (texture like sun) probably throws more exciting parties. the latest comic strip the other week was just awful
eh?... just what did he stand for in the 80's?... i think you are mixing up alternate comedians with anarchists.
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#108 |
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: derby
Posts: 14,755
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[quote]but my comment was in relation to me saying that millions of people would like myself prefer the bee gees to abba. an entirely different thing to your points about britain. this is why i mention bickering because you just went off on a pointless tangent[/qoute] ... you have no idea how many people prefer either, and please stop crediting yourself with phrases i used originally. it was me who complained about you bickering over trivia. Quote:
you mean the facts i mentioned about the sales of both? the facts that confirm what i said about abba being more popular than the bee gees? however my point was simply that some people prefer the bee gees to abba, not that the bee gees were more popular than abba
nopewrong again i was refering to the CHART stats i posted, but you convieniantly missed out th word 'chart' in your reply (although its there in my post you quoted), either to inflame, or wind up. Quote:
no shit sherlock. people bought an album because they liked the music? what amazing insights are you going to come up with next? the bee gees made the music that people liked, which is why they bought it. the bee gees also had fans and hits before that album. that's why they were asked to contribute to the soundtrack
no.the bee gees had been quiet before snf, and interestingly when approached to score snf barry gibb claimed that 'he didnt even know what disco was' (that aired recently on a rock-doc). the point is that it was more then bee gees fans who bought snf.Quote:
there's a big difference between buying a single and buying an album. if people only wanted one song they could have bought the single instead of the album, thus people obviously wanted more than just one song
but bryan and celine didnt do an album for robin hood or titanic, they did one song, the analogy stands.Quote:
but what does that have to do with what i said? just because on act sells twice as many as another, doesn't mean that the lower selling act still can't have millions of people who prefer that act to the bigger selling one. take a low selling act like "the The" who have sold a tiny percentage of the sales of abba. you will still find millions of people who prefer "the The" to abba. the stats of abba's sales don't reflect accurately the stats of another artists fanbase, just like any other set of stats. because apple sold $2b of product doesn't mean millions of people can't prefer sony products, even if sony old sold 10th. or the same with cars. ford probably sold 20 times what aston martin sold, but you will still find a large number of people who prefer aston martin to ford, regardless of the different between sales. the two things don't correspond in the way you suggest. this is just basic analysing
didnt say otherwise. all the way through i made ot perfectly clear that you have no clue how many of either set of fans either did or didnt buy the others material. i dont know whether any beegees fans did or didnt buy abba. you said Quote:
it's not pure speculation, it's based on the fact that the bee gees sold 220 million records. don't you think that out of 220 million record sales that there must be literally millions of them that haven't bought a single abba song
. the point is that you are wrong to say 'millions' of people who bought the beegees didnt buy abba, its a figure snatched out of the air, and THATS what this line of argument has all been about, not whether fans of either did or didnt buy the others material, the point is that YOU attatched an unresearched guess figure on it.... besides you are quoting the beegees worldwide sales, not uk, how many sales did abba have worldwide in this era?
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#109 |
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really?... this has to be a wind up...
m8, the last single i bought was the rasmus, in the shadows, 8 years ago.... i am on of the few people of my generation who even half heartedly takes any notice of the singles chart (and thats mainly to prop up my knowlege for pop music quizes). older people DO buy music, but NOT singles. Quote:
the only reason you are arguing the toss here is to give credit to singles sales, which prop up your pro-disco stance. in reality singles are and especially then, bought by 'da kidz', and the cheese end of the market by people with easily satisfied tastes. just who bought westlife? mercury prize winning musicians? or soppy women (lol) . it aint much different, the bee gees were not cool, they were ridiculed. my point about music sales is not in relation to disco, but to demonstrate to you that your ideas are wrong because you over generalise without considering other people. if you presented your statements as opinions rather than facts, then no-one can argue with what you think, but you have a tendancy to state things as facts that are plainly untrue. i've been trying to open you up to that so you can see for yourself that sometimes what you believe can be far from the truth Quote:
nope. neither do you. please show sales figures showing that oaps buy singles and not conjecture. kids in playgrounds DO reharse their dance routines, oaps in homes dont. Quote:
what sales figures? the 220 mil the beegees sold are the only stats you have provided. Quote:
wrong.... it wasnt me that raised disco in that thread, it was someone else who said something like "forget punk, disco is where it was at" Quote:
i respect your view, i dont agree with it, after all, this is the internet and theres no way of varifying your claims. Quote:
i am interested in music from other countries, but this thread, this forum, unless otherwise stated , is about uk (and closely related us) music. Quote:
we simply do not know. but sell more they would have, so punks chart reprisentation in the late 70's is not a true measure of its real popularity. they might have sold 1 more copy, they might have sold a million. we will never know, so we have to use the charts as they were. Quote:
but imho it was more popular because all the nice, twee, people who didnt like rock (in any form), the mums, the soul fans, the old philly fans, and gay people bought it, that is a much larger demograph then the 'trendies'. always has been, always will be, but its the trendies that throughout the history of the uk charts that have driven the styles, the fashions, which have made our musical heritage second to non for variety and innovation. however the term "trendies" is used to relate to people who follow the latest trend or fashion. disco was that trend, so it was the disco fans who were the trendies at the time. disco music and it's fashions were what was on trend at the time also, as i mentioned before there was both the cool underground disco movement and the commercial chart based element, so the genre encompassed both the hip and unhip from different sides. so the fashionable would go to underground clubs whilst the grannies could dance to the meat on the tangerine at a family party with their granddaughter Quote:
so by the time 'our' musicians had access to synths and were able to create a disco sound, it was simply out of fashion?... id not argue against that. you could have said that two weeks ago though...lol
have a read back, i said something like this early on in the threadQuote:
'others'?... you are the only one disagreeing with what i put foreward as my life experience, others must either agree or respectfully understand that its my account of how i saw things. Quote:
but the larger scale is of no importance, its the uk where i was, where my interest lies, WE were the world leaders. Quote:
students were strange....so was rolf harris and gary glitter Quote:
so youd laugh at a black person being called a 'j**** b****' , a 's****' or n***** ? a gay person being laughed at because hes gay? a female being seen as nothing more then a sex object? ... because thats how it was in the 70's. alternative comedy was acxtually real comedy, laughing at clowns in a laurel and hardy style, taking the mick out of themselves as characters and not at a minority group. Quote:
eh?... just what did he stand for in the 80's?... i think you are mixing up alternate comedians with anarchists. Quote:
... you have no idea how many people prefer either, and please stop crediting yourself with phrases i used originally. it was me who complained about you bickering over trivia. Quote:
nope wrong again i was refering to the CHART stats i posted, but you convieniantly missed out th word 'chart' in your reply (although its there in my post you quoted), either to inflame, or wind up. no, not wrong. you are missing the point entirely, even though i've clarified a few times now. there is no dispute that abba sold more than the bee gees or even that more people like abba than the bee gees. the point is that regardless of the volume of sales, millions of people will prefer the bee gees to abba Quote:
no.the bee gees had been quiet before snf, and interestingly when approached to score snf barry gibb claimed that 'he didnt even know what disco was' (that aired recently on a rock-doc). the point is that it was more then bee gees fans who bought snf.
so presumably you didn't consider that people became fans of the bee gees as a result of saturday night fever?Quote:
but bryan and celine didnt do an album for robin hood or titanic, they did one song, the analogy stands. Quote:
didnt say otherwise. all the way through i made ot perfectly clear that you have no clue how many of either set of fans either did or didnt buy the others material. i dont know whether any beegees fans did or didnt buy abba. you said . the point is that you are wrong to say 'millions' of people who bought the beegees didnt buy abba, its a figure snatched out of the air, and THATS what this line of argument has all been about, not whether fans of either did or didnt buy the others material, the point is that YOU attatched an unresearched guess figure on it.... besides you are quoting the beegees worldwide sales, not uk, how many sales did abba have worldwide in this era? however more importantly, this is a perfect example of pointless bickering. i didn't present it as a clear fact. i just said i was sure, and based on the stats i'm still sure are you still sure that there aren't millions of people who prefer the bee gees to abba? a clear and concise answer? |
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#110 |
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Location: derby
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#111 |
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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you still going on?...
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#112 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
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i'm not one to give up. you must know that by now
c'mon man, we are going around in circles qibbling over trivia and all because i poorly worded the original post.ok, disco wasnt totally ignored by uk musicians, but over the whole period there was very few british disco songs to grace the singles chart. ok, the beegees pretty much accidentally (barry gibb said on a rock doc recently that he didnt even know what disco was when they were approached to score snf) scored the biggest disco album of all time. well done to them. but just look at the singles charts from 76-83, count up the british disco records or tracks with a clear disco influence, then compare them against every other style of music. there was far more punk tracks to chart, far more new wave, reggae, ska, pop, rockabilly, rock, electro - new romantic. so the general gist of what im going on about stays intact. in reality the british disco scene was dominated by the beegees, take them out of the equasion and theres precious little left. as i see it , disco appealled to the non rock fans, and rock in one way or another dominated the 70's. so the young, the people who didnt take music seriously but just wanted a good time, gays, mums, and philly/soul fans from earlier in the decade. pretty much the same demograph who buys westlife, s/a/w, engelbert humperdink & tom jones (1967's chart dominators, right in the heart of the swinging 60's and summer of love). my experience, supported by 'yoof tv' (you appear to not understand alternative comedy), others, the chart stats, music press, everybody i know, isnt far from accurate. |
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#113 |
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Guest
Join Date: Aug 2012
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mushymanrob & unique
both locked in to another of your debates/arguments? ![]() |
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#114 |
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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nor me, but seriously, oaps buying singles?
c'mon man, we are going around in circles qibbling over trivia and all because i poorly worded the original post.who do you think bought all the cliff richard singles that got him xmas number 1's? these days when someone buys a single track on itunes it counts in the charts. a single isn't just a record or cd these days, downloads count for the largest percentage of chart returns today, so if someone hears a song on tv or radio and buys it from itunes, regardless of age it counts towards the chart, whether they are under 10 or an OAP. grannies buying an adele cover of a bob dylan song on itunes counts as a single sale, as does a grandad buying a cover of a frankie tune they heard in a tv ad it's you that's quibbling about it. it's a minor point that has little relation to your first question. you must surely know that people don't stop buying music because they hit an a certain age Quote:
ok, disco wasnt totally ignored by uk musicians, but over the whole period there was very few british disco songs to grace the singles chart. ok, the beegees pretty much accidentally (barry gibb said on a rock doc recently that he didnt even know what disco was when they were approached to score snf) scored the biggest disco album of all time. well done to them.
this was acknowledged early on in the threadQuote:
but just look at the singles charts from 76-83, count up the british disco records or tracks with a clear disco influence, then compare them against every other style of music. there was far more punk tracks to chart, far more new wave, reggae, ska, pop, rockabilly, rock, electro - new romantic. so the general gist of what im going on about stays intact. having a look at 1976 for example, most number 1 singles were disco influenced, no punk number 1s 1977 is the same, likewise 1978, just under half were disco influenced in 1979 and no punk as per the previous years, it was about a third in 1980 but no punk again, 81/82/83 no real disco songs but a small number of disco influenced ones, and again no punk the only number 1 single in the UK at that time from a punk artist was a showtune from south pacific, which was knocked off the top spot by one of the most disco influenced tracks of those latter 3 years, another movie theme tune Quote:
in reality the british disco scene was dominated by the beegees, take them out of the equasion and theres precious little left. Quote:
as i see it , disco appealled to the non rock fans, and rock in one way or another dominated the 70's. so the young, the people who didnt take music seriously but just wanted a good time, gays, mums, and philly/soul fans from earlier in the decade. pretty much the same demograph who buys westlife, s/a/w, engelbert humperdink & tom jones (1967's chart dominators, right in the heart of the swinging 60's and summer of love).
rock didn't dominate the whole of the 70s, disco dominated the world in music for a chunk of it. how many rock albums have spent 24 weeks at number 1?all sorts of people bought disco records as it had a wide global appeal. you bought disco records, which of the demographics above do you fit into? disco was inclusive rather than exclusive Quote:
my experience, supported by 'yoof tv' (you appear to not understand alternative comedy), others, the chart stats, music press, everybody i know, isnt far from accurate. i do understand alternative comedy, thus my remarks about those who's careers were started by it who now cater to an audience of songs of praise and antiques roadshow viewers. people grow up and mature over time but some of those guys seemed to have aged far beyond their years, presumably because pay packets have persuaded them to give up their self respect |
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#115 |
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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OP, why ask this question if you are going to argue and disagree what everyone is saying?
This is the same guy who was attempting to argue a few months back that House music didn't have anything to do with disco music. Regardless of what facts you throw in his direcion,he'll ignore them and keep repeating and recycling the same garbage over and over in an effort to convince himself that he's right. |
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#116 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: derby
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This is the same guy who was attempting to argue a few months back that House music didn't have anything to do with disco music.
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#117 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: derby
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why would someone not buy a single just because they have cross an age barrier?
who do you think bought all the cliff richard singles that got him xmas number 1's? ![]() Quote:
these days when someone buys a single track on itunes it counts in the charts. a single isn't just a record or cd these days, downloads count for the largest percentage of chart returns today, so if someone hears a song on tv or radio and buys it from itunes, regardless of age it counts towards the chart, whether they are under 10 or an OAP. grannies buying an adele cover of a bob dylan song on itunes counts as a single sale, as does a grandad buying a cover of a frankie tune they heard in a tv ad
not on about nowdays, the era under discussion is the disco/punk post disco /punk . not on about retro buying, never was, on about the singles chart that IS aimed at the young. if you chose to believe that theres as many 40, 50, 60, 70, year olds buying the tracks that make up the singles chart as there are 10-25 year olds...then thats your perogative. Quote:
it's you that's quibbling about it. it's a minor point that has little relation to your first question. you must surely know that people don't stop buying music because they hit an a certain age
not talking about buying MUSIC when reaching a certain age, so stop trying to twist what i said.Quote:
have you actually analysed the stats yourself? what are the facts and figures and what criteria did you use to determine if a track had a "clear disco influence" as opposed to a disco influence?
simple, just look at the charts weekly from that era, 76-83, and count.ok, a 'clear' disco influence as opposed to a lesser one would be hardto define, true, but you could say the same for every style of music around at the time. there were many that displayed reggae in some form, to some degree. funk, punk, jazz, also featured to some degree as styles changed. as did rap.... but was 'wham rap' a rap song? a song heavily influenced by rap? or a pop song with a rap flavour?... Quote:
having a look at 1976 for example, most number 1 singles were disco influenced, no punk number 1s
oh per-leez... punk didnt explode until late 76, as you well know. so of course there were no punk influenced #1s... but this isnt a disco vs punk thing, its a disco vs every other style thing.Quote:
1977 is the same, likewise 1978, just under half were disco influenced in 1979 and no punk as per the previous years, it was about a third in 1980 but no punk again, 81/82/83 no real disco songs but a small number of disco influenced ones, and again no punk
proof that you can chose which stats you can to prove a point. id suggest then (as you clearly have more time then i do) to COUNT every new single to chart in the top 40 from 77- 83. place them in the generic class they belong. if you do that then youll see that other styles of music, in comparison, were much more popular.Quote:
rock didn't dominate the whole of the 70s, disco dominated the world in music for a chunk of it. how many rock albums have spent 24 weeks at number 1?
24 weeks out of 520 (for the decade) isnt 'dominant', i havent looked but im sure there will be far more rock #1 albums then disco ones! how many weeks @ #1 did led zep have?but what has #1 albums got to do with anything? the decade started with prog rock, glam rock, and finished with metal, heavy, punk, and yes...prog was still there.. if any 1 genre dominated the 70's is clearly was rock. Quote:
all sorts of people bought disco records as it had a wide global appeal. you bought disco records, which of the demographics above do you fit into?
open minded music fan... of which there were not many back then because things were very tribal. Quote:
the things you purport to be facts usually are far from accurate though, as evidenced by this thread
thats your opinion, im clear about what i witnessed, what i lived through and this is supported by those things listed.im not sure why you want to try to say im wrong... how can you disprove my life? what is your atlernative? that everyone was sitting around listening to disco when clearly there were many other styles that the youth of the day embraced? in the same way snf popularised disco, quadrophenia popularised the great mod revival in 79. i saw far more people getting into that scene then i did in the disco scene. Quote:
i do understand alternative comedy, thus my remarks about those who's careers were started by it who now cater to an audience of songs of praise and antiques roadshow viewers. people grow up and mature over time but some of those guys seemed to have aged far beyond their years, presumably because pay packets have persuaded them to give up their self respect
no you dont, you wouldnt make the remarks you did if that was the case. 'give up their self respect'? wtf does that mean?... you are confusing alternative comedians with anachist punks. some were i dare say (alexi), most others were not, they were/are just ordinary people finding comedic situations in alternate areas to what had gone before. call it 'politically correct comedy' , i think that would be a better discription. |
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#118 |
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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Quote:
the same people who bought the bee gees! ...
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not on about nowdays, the era under discussion is the disco/punk post disco /punk . not on about retro buying, never was, on about the singles chart that IS aimed at the young. if you chose to believe that theres as many 40, 50, 60, 70, year olds buying the tracks that make up the singles chart as there are 10-25 year olds...then thats your perogative. no reference to years gone by there, in fact the mention of threads suggests you are referring to the charts today. as this site is only about 10 years or so old, it can't refer to an earlier period than that as few people under a certain young age will have disposable income to buy music, and others once they have hit an age where they are computer literate whilst lacking disposable income will be able to and will download it illegally for free, which doesn't count towards the charts, it makes it quite possible, particularly if you consider population stats as there are more people over 25 in the UK than under 25. so once you remove those too young to be interested in music, and then those who download music instead of buying it, which are mostly under 25s according to recent stats, it's quite possible over 25s can have more chart based sales registered than under 25s so to say OAP's dont buy singles is wide of the mark Quote:
not talking about buying MUSIC when reaching a certain age, so stop trying to twist what i said. Quote:
simple, just look at the charts weekly from that era, 76-83, and count.
i didn't ask you how to do it, that's pretty obvious. i asked "have you actually analysed the stats yourself? what are the facts and figures"so what are the stats? Quote:
ok, a 'clear' disco influence as opposed to a lesser one would be hardto define, true, but you could say the same for every style of music around at the time. there were many that displayed reggae in some form, to some degree. funk, punk, jazz, also featured to some degree as styles changed. as did rap.... but was 'wham rap' a rap song? a song heavily influenced by rap? or a pop song with a rap flavour?... but just look at the singles charts from 76-83, count up the british disco records or tracks with a clear disco influence, then compare them against every other style of music. there was far more punk tracks to chart, far more new wave, reggae, ska, pop, rockabilly, rock, electro - new romantic. so the general gist of what im going on about stays intact. ". of course it's not possible to do what you say unless you have a clear definition laid down, so what was the definition you used? Quote:
oh per-leez... punk didnt explode until late 76, as you well know. so of course there were no punk influenced #1s... but this isnt a disco vs punk thing, its a disco vs every other style thing. Quote:
proof that you can chose which stats you can to prove a point. id suggest then (as you clearly have more time then i do) to COUNT every new single to chart in the top 40 from 77- 83. place them in the generic class they belong. if you do that then youll see that other styles of music, in comparison, were much more popular.
it's yourself that is trying to prove something that simply isn't true. you can spend the time yourself to collate stats. it was you that raised this, so present the stats. the first thing you need to do is determine a set of rules to seperate tracks into generesif you do this, then you will see that disco outsold punk in that period, or had more chart success Quote:
24 weeks out of 520 (for the decade) isnt 'dominant', i havent looked but im sure there will be far more rock #1 albums then disco ones! how many weeks @ #1 did led zep have?
if you have a read at what i said, i said disco was dominant for a period, not a decade. thus contrary to what you said, rock was not dominant through the decadeled zep only had half their albums in the 70s at number 1 in the states and 1 more in the UK, and the combined period at number 1 of all their albums was less than saturday night fevers figures in both cases. i'm sure you know they didn't release singles in the UK but some tracks were released in the states where whole lotta love was the highest charting track at number 4 Quote:
but what has #1 albums got to do with anything? the decade started with prog rock, glam rock, and finished with metal, heavy, punk, and yes...prog was still there.. if any 1 genre dominated the 70's is clearly was rock. Quote:
open minded music fan... of which there were not many back then because things were very tribal. Quote:
thats your opinion, im clear about what i witnessed, what i lived through and this is supported by those things listed. it's not an opinion. don't you understand what a fact is? a fact is no an opinion, it's a true statement. you're "facts" are proven to be wrong. this is entirely different from you having an opinion that isn't shared. what your opinion is or what you saw or experienced has little bearing on factsim not sure why you want to try to say im wrong... how can you disprove my life? what is your atlernative? that everyone was sitting around listening to disco when clearly there were many other styles that the youth of the day embraced? in the same way snf popularised disco, quadrophenia popularised the great mod revival in 79. i saw far more people getting into that scene then i did in the disco scene. Quote:
no you dont, you wouldnt make the remarks you did if that was the case.
yes i do, and that is exactly why i made those comments. look just what you wrote before that statement. you ask how could i know what you think and know about you, and straight after make a hypocritical postQuote:
'give up their self respect'? wtf does that mean?... you are confusing alternative comedians with anachist punks. some were i dare say (alexi), most others were not, they were/are just ordinary people finding comedic situations in alternate areas to what had gone before. call it 'politically correct comedy' , i think that would be a better discription. |
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#119 |
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Guest
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,519
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Quote:
This is the same guy who was attempting to argue a few months back that House music didn't have anything to do with disco music.
Regardless of what facts you throw in his direcion,he'll ignore them and keep repeating and recycling the same garbage over and over in an effort to convince himself that he's right. |
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#120 |
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Join Date: Jan 2008
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i'm not one to give up. you must know that by now
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#121 |
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You do with Quo with me
are you the guy that was on the telly the other week in that bbc doc? that's how i imagine all quo fans as that's what the guy i know that likes quo is like |
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#122 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: derby
Posts: 14,755
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#123 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: derby
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You do with Quo with me
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#124 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,198
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It was my era as I was 18 in 1980 the mid point.
This is always my favourite record and contains everything that was ever DISCO in one record: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9U-wb_bVGk Brings a tear to the eye of a sad old fart. WARNING: Unfortunately the clip contains Jimmy Savile at the start! |
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#125 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,035
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Quote:
still going on and on?
i stand by my post #112. |
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