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Why are the other apprentices intimidated by the by young black apprentice David |
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#51 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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(In this case, I felt Amy was certainly aware of black stereotypes because she repeatedly called David 'useless', 'lazy' and 'stupid' when he wasn't guilty of those charges. I mean, that guy from the first episode - he held back from selling to focus on folding clothes on his stall. As far as I can recall, no one branded him lazy, but I'm willing to bet you £100 that if David did what that guy did, he'd be branded lazy by almost everybody. Anyway, I think Amy had an issue with him from the start. She seemed to be deeply irritated by his very existence.
For example, during Amy's screwed-up phone call in the cab, Lucy and David corrected her in equal amounts. Amy branded David an 'idiot' for 'shouting' over her phone call and yet she didn't scold Lucy for doing the same. In fact, she was more receptive towards Lucy's corrections than she was towards David's same corrections. Anyway. Sorry for being so long-winded, but thanks for letting me get this off my chest. I won't go on too long about it again. I promise. ![]() |
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#52 |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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Interesting. I can't decide whether I agree with what you say about Amy. But she definitely had it in for him; it may have been just that she saw him as the easiest target.
What I was referring to is the nature of her language. I don't believe she even realised what she was doing/saying. Most people aren't, anyway. It's so part of our society that we don't really see it. I think that's probably why Amy didn't call him out on sexism. She was probably so used to it that she didn't notice, or chose to ignore. Who knows? |
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#53 |
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For example, during Amy's screwed-up phone call in the cab, Lucy and David corrected her in equal amounts. Amy branded David an 'idiot' for 'shouting' over her phone call and yet she didn't scold Lucy for doing the same. In fact, she was more receptive towards Lucy's corrections than she was towards David's same corrections. Anyway.
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#54 |
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This is completely untrue. Lucy spoke over the conversation once, as did David - she snapped at both of them and Lucy just kept quiet. David continued to try and correct her mistake and then after the call she didnt actually say anything it was him who tried to give her advice and then she responded by saying what she did - she didnt accuse him of 'shouting' so why have you quoted that? And she said he was acting like an idiot, at that moment, not he was an idiot in general. In the boardroom she said both of them were talking over her and it was really annoying. In what way was she more receptive to Lucy's correction? I think if you are going to imply that somebody is potentially racist then you really ought to get your facts completely straight.
In any case, she said "Oh, 26" after Lucy said "26" in spite of David's earlier correction, and she did say 'shouting'. Read the transcript here http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showt...=#post62437815 where you'll see this line: "AMY: You kept talking over him and it was SO annoying and ridiculous. You were acting like an idiot, shouting over him!". The BBC's subtitles back this transcript up. Look, I don't give a crap about David, but I do give a crap about constructive criticisms and fair assessments. At the moment, he IS a weak candidate, he IS a sexist pig (based on his silly bravado talk and views) and he IS the house's favourite target, which is absolutely fine as it's a competition. What I have been questioning are the purpose and intentions behind Amy and some DS commenters' word choices and perspectives. Not whether they are racist. I hope I've articulated better this time. |
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#55 |
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Jesus Christ. At what point did I say Amy was a racist? I never said she was one.
In any case, she said "Oh, 26" after Lucy said "26" in spite of David's earlier correction, and she did say 'shouting'. Read the transcript here http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showt...=#post62437815 where you'll see this line: "AMY: You kept talking over him and it was SO annoying and ridiculous. You were acting like an idiot, shouting over him!". The BBC's subtitles back this transcript up. Look, I don't give a crap about David, but I do give a crap about constructive criticisms and fair assessments. At the moment, he IS a weak candidate, he IS a sexist pig (based on his silly bravado talk and views) and he IS the house's favourite target, which is absolutely fine as it's a competition. What I have been questioning are the purpose and intentions behind Amy and some DS commenters' word choices and perspectives. Not whether they are racist. I hope I've articulated better this time. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5Y6Yi2djww Why does there need to be any intentions behind Amys comments? She has been labelled as argumentative and aggressive in her manner, if it was just David that she behaved this way towards I would question it but it doesnt seem the case. ~The week before Lucy was in tears at the way she was treated by Amy and one of the other girls. David was squabbling with her so she reacted, I dont think she would have been any different with the others - she seemed to be looking for an argument. She said DAvid was not a good leader for the sub-team and from the small amount we get to see, it was hard to judge but I didnt see a great drive within him to get things done but he wasnt doing nothing either. What are DS commentators word comments about David? The way I read this thread is questioning whether the others are intimidated by Davids skills (not that I agree with this thread) not physically intimidated - I dont think anybody could say he is like that. What other word choices have there been? |
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#56 |
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Why does there need to be any intentions behind Amys comments? [snipped] What are DS commentators word comments about David? The way I read this thread is questioning whether the others are intimidated by Davids skills (not that I agree with this thread) not physically intimidated - I dont think anybody could say he is like that. What other word choices have there been?
And yet there are commentators who insist that he's useless and lazy, on top of Amy using the same words in the boardroom. For me, at this point, it's not about David any more. It's about these questions: Why those specific words? Especially when there's a history behind those specific words? I feel there's a pattern going on here, which is why I talked about it. I was guessing that it may be because of the social conditioning of us in how we view people and the words we use in association with them in accordance with their ethnicity (and in other cases, accent, gender or whatnot). When we see a young smoker in a hoodie and trainers, we automatically think "Chav", don't we? After that thought, an established set of expectations and assumptions about that person will crop up, which then alters our views, behaviour and language towards that person. All this is replaced by a completely different set of expectations and assumptions when we see an elderly woman in pearls and twin-set cardigan and tweed skirt. Our language will be changed along with it, too. This is what I meant when I said that not all of us realise that we sometimes choose words in accordance with what we see or hear about a person's ethnicity or whatnot. Why is it so wrong to acknowledge or discuss this? Dismissing it as "oversensitive" or whatnot suggests we still have a long way to go. I feel I've explained, clarified and talked this to death so I hope you understand if I retire from this specific topic now. Thanks.
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#57 |
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He's gone if his team dont win this one.
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#58 |
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Join Date: Sep 2012
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Takae I was wrong and you were right David is toast. He was totally rubbish in tonights task
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#59 |
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Join Date: Jun 2005
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I find David quite likeable. He's not the strongest candidate or the best organised by a long way but neither is he the worst. At least he doesn't attack all the time like Maria who I find really unpleasant.
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#60 |
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I find David quite likeable. He's not the strongest candidate or the best organised by a long way but neither is he the worst. At least he doesn't attack all the time like Maria who I find really unpleasant.
Definitely a Rottweiler in a previous life.
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#61 |
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Join Date: Jul 2003
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Takae I was wrong and you were right David is toast. He was totally rubbish in tonights task
Ironically, in this weeks shambles he did possibly fall into a good, even winning, decision. Putting the customers outside meant he could serve more customers, and it also allowed passers by to see his product and be attracted by it. However, none of that occurred to him as he was just looking for somewhere to put all the people he was keeping waiting for any food. he's not alone though in not being that good. For some reason, so far Lord Sugar has tested the candidates who claimed expertise in catering, fashion and publishing, and they have all failed to produce the goods. Some people have not been tested on their specific skills at all - some can't be - who is next weeks task intended to test by entertaining kids?? |
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#62 |
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Just tapping into an old stereotype about African men. It was an oddly pointless thing to say anyway; he obviously wanted to do more than he did, but kept getting barked at to back off.
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#63 |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Why was it a good idea to put people outside again? Were they short of tables?
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#64 |
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Ok, so every word I use needs to get checked against 1000 years of history for any possible negative/racial undertones?
The candidates are even younger than me so I don't think it is realistic to assume they would know the racist connotations of the word. |
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#65 |
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Agree with this, lazy isn't a stereotype I have heard associated to blacks, mostly Mexicans.
The candidates are even younger than me so I don't think it is realistic to assume they would know the racist connotations of the word. |
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#66 |
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So you can't refer to black people collectively as "blacks"?
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#67 |
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Agree with this, lazy isn't a stereotype I have heard associated to blacks, mostly Mexicans.
The candidates are even younger than me so I don't think it is realistic to assume they would know the racist connotations of the word. Quote:
So you can't refer to black people collectively as "blacks"?
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#68 |
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Join Date: Mar 2012
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Yeah I don't think the description was loaded, it was just, ironically, a very lazy way of criticising him. I think she was hoping that if she just insulted him, some of it would stick. She should have pointed out examples of things he'd done wrong, without the name calling.
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Not really the done thing, I would say.
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#69 |
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So you can't refer to black people collectively as "blacks"?
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#70 |
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 17,496
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Why on earth does the OP feel the need to highlight that he's black? You wouldn't ask
"Why are all the candidates intimidated by young white apprentice David" or "Why was Sean intimidated by young blonde/northern Irish apprentice Maria"?? |
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#71 |
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As far as I can see from DS's search results (David + useless), six DS commentators have described him as useless and lazy in various threads, which I was addressing. I mean, I just find this trend bloody weird. For example, what did Navdeep, Patrick and Maria(?) do, apart from bitching about their PM? Why didn't these commentators brand them useless and lazy? David took an active part in suggesting a team name along with one or two candidates while the rest didn't. Was he lazy and useless there? No. He took part in selling clothes and advising Patrick, such as that they shouldn't move to another location. Was he lazy and useless here? No. And on it goes.
And yet there are commentators who insist that he's useless and lazy, on top of Amy using the same words in the boardroom. For me, at this point, it's not about David any more. It's about these questions: Why those specific words? Especially when there's a history behind those specific words? I feel there's a pattern going on here, which is why I talked about it. I was guessing that it may be because of the social conditioning of us in how we view people and the words we use in association with them in accordance with their ethnicity (and in other cases, accent, gender or whatnot). When we see a young smoker in a hoodie and trainers, we automatically think "Chav", don't we? After that thought, an established set of expectations and assumptions about that person will crop up, which then alters our views, behaviour and language towards that person. All this is replaced by a completely different set of expectations and assumptions when we see an elderly woman in pearls and twin-set cardigan and tweed skirt. Our language will be changed along with it, too. This is what I meant when I said that not all of us realise that we sometimes choose words in accordance with what we see or hear about a person's ethnicity or whatnot. Why is it so wrong to acknowledge or discuss this? Dismissing it as "oversensitive" or whatnot suggests we still have a long way to go. I feel I've explained, clarified and talked this to death so I hope you understand if I retire from this specific topic now. Thanks. ![]() |
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#72 |
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Join Date: Mar 2012
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I'm just picking up on your poor grammar stop being oversensitive and defensive.A group of black people are not called blacks, they are called black people. A group of white people are not called whites they are called white people, Do you understand where I'm coming from?
Don't know if it makes a difference but I was using blacks to refer to the black race as a whole, not just a group of black people. |
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#73 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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Why was it a good idea to put people outside again? Were they short of tables?
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#74 |
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Join Date: Jul 2003
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Agree with this, lazy isn't a stereotype I have heard associated to blacks, mostly Mexicans.
The candidates are even younger than me so I don't think it is realistic to assume they would know the racist connotations of the word. |
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#75 |
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Yes, every table was full and people were still queueing. That was a good decision by him and worked well.
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