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Old 18-11-2012, 17:53
skp20040
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As ever some people defend the BBC even when the BBC is at fault.

The fault is the lack of clear explanation, not the blocking of BBC WW which can be justified on rights issues.

Is it that difficult to understand? It's why "Points of View" is so mocked, the failure of the BBC to engage honestly with the public.


Over and over we get this BS nonsense from BBC executives and they get away with it. If they don't give the truth as to why they are doing something then how can a debate take place?

Are the BBC not to be debated?
You can debate the BBC to your little hearts content, but that and you claiming they have not explained when they clearly have in a form a child could understand are two very different things.
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Old 18-11-2012, 19:20
HenryVIII
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Surely the point here is not how it is funded, but why the BBC is blocking it?

Fair enough it is not funded by the TLV.
But why on earth should the BBC therefore block UK users from viewing it?
If adverts are the problem, then just dont display the ads, not block the whole page.
What purpose or sense is there in that?

There are millions of non UK websites funded by non UK companies targeted at non UK audiences, but I can still view them if I wish. Similarly millions of UK websites funded by UK companies targeted at UK audiences are visible to anyone overseas.
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Old 18-11-2012, 19:26
zz9
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Surely the point here is not how it is funded, but why the BBC is blocking it?

Fair enough it is not funded by the TLV.
But why on earth should the BBC therefore block UK users from viewing it?
If adverts are the problem, the just dont display the ads, not block the whole page.
What purpose or sense is there in that?
Their commercial rivals will still complain that it is taking pageviews away from them, hence why the BBC had to slash its website a couple of years ago, and there were no adverts on that. It could also contravene unfair competition laws because they are unfairly subsidising a service to the detriment of their commercial rivals.
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Old 19-11-2012, 07:23
mossy2103
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If adverts are the problem, then just dont display the ads, not block the whole page.
It's due to webpage design issues - either have a webpage that contains acres of whirespace where the ads are supposed to be (not at all professional), as well as having to maintain extra code to determine if an ad is to be displayed or not, or spend money to create & maintain two layouts (one with ads, one without).
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Old 19-11-2012, 11:01
HenryVIII
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It's due to webpage design issues - either have a webpage that contains acres of whirespace where the ads are supposed to be (not at all professional), as well as having to maintain extra code to determine if an ad is to be displayed or not, or spend money to create & maintain two layouts (one with ads, one without).
Then perhaps don't bother having the page at all?

Why does the BBC need to be operating a completely overseas non-UK service that it doesn't even let UK visitors see, at all?

Perhaps that is the real issue.
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Old 19-11-2012, 11:06
mossy2103
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Then perhaps don't bother having the page at all?

Why does the BBC need to be operating a completely overseas non-UK service that it doesn't even let UK visitors see, at all?

Perhaps that is the real issue.
the LF-funded BBC per se does not operate it, BBC WW does.

If it's not financed in any way by our LF, and if it is financed by BBCWW (with any ad revenue profits going back to the BBC) then why should anyone in the UK actually care?

It's just not an issue apart from a few who somehow do see it as such (for whatever reason, agenda or otherwise).
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Old 14-12-2012, 19:23
HenryVIII
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Came across this item about a "fascinating item" on the BBC examining how fake photographs change our memories, clicked on the link and of course I can't access it.

Madness!
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Old 14-12-2012, 19:36
omnidirectional
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http://translate.google.com/translat...ies%2F1&anno=2

Enjoy!
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Old 14-12-2012, 21:22
hyperstarsponge
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Type bbc.com into this:

http://www.3383.info/

Don't know if I am allowed to post links to proxy's on here
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Old 14-12-2012, 21:36
Bandspread199
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Quite simply the BBC are not allowed to carry ads on websites, or indeed tv channels in the UK. So they are blocked here. No probs - it's a source of income, just like the Fawlty Towers DvD you bought in HMV!
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Old 14-12-2012, 21:49
hyperstarsponge
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Quite simply the BBC are not allowed to carry ads on websites, or indeed tv channels in the UK. So they are blocked here. No probs - it's a source of income, just like the Fawlty Towers DvD you bought in HMV!
So this last page you can not view on any BBC UK page, Its amusing how the bbc.com writes more then a bbc.co.uk

"Last week, citizens of the United States voted to select who they thought would best serve them as President of their country, as legislators for their states, and more. They filed into their polling places (many of them waiting for hours), and indicated their choices on a touch screen or by colouring in ovals on a response form. Each voter weighed up the multiple consequences of each option and, after careful consideration, reached a conclusion. Then, each individual's personal decisions were counted, and out of the chaos a winner emerged.

Animals make collective decisions, too. While non-human species typically don't vote to choose their leaders, they do vote for other more routine decisions, like where to live or where to forage. But they don't have voting machines or ballots to determine the group's consensus, so how do they do it?

Some do it through the wisdom of crowds. Near the end of spring or the beginning of summer, honey bee (Apis mellifera) colonies grow too large for their hives, so the group splits in two. The mother queen and half of the worker bees leave the hive to seek a new location, while the daughter queen and the remaining workers remain in place. Minutes later, the departed group identifies a temporary resting place on a nearby tree branch, and from there it surveys the local real estate. Several hundred scouts fan out in all directions in search of a suitable location for a new hive. On their return, each scout communicates the location of the space they found by performing a waggle dance in front of their hive mates.

Over the course of several days, the scouts may spend as much as sixteen hours dancing, each advocating for a possible location. As the days pass, consensus begins to emerge. It isn't entirely clear what makes scouts stop campaigning for less popular sites; they don't get voted out as if they were participating in some insect version of Dancing with the Stars. Some simply stop dancing, while others switch their choreography to endorse one of the more popular options.

Majority vote

What is clear, however, is that the “hive mind” can make complex decisions only because the work is distributed across multiple individuals. Thomas Seeley and Susannah Buhrman, who have studied decision making in swarms of honey bees write, "we have seen that there is no omniscient supervisory bee that compiles all the evaluations and selects the best site. Instead, it is the highly distributed process of friendly competition among the scout bees that identifies the best site. Hence the cognitive effort that each scout bee must make is evidently quite small relative to the information processing done by the entire swarm."

For honey bees, few individuals possess valuable information, which the rest of the group relies on. However, social species throughout the animal kingdom often have to make decisions without the aid of expert knowledge. Such is the case for Tonkean macaques (Macaca tonkeana), a group of fruit-loving monkeys that live in the forests of Sulawesi, Indonesia. Fruit trees are distributed randomly throughout the forest, with some areas containing more fruit than others. So Tonkean macaques must decide which direction they will move in search of food, and they make those choices by majority vote.

When a particular Tonkean macaque wishes to move the group, he or she walks a few steps in the desired direction, pauses, and then turns his or her head back towards the rest of the group. This indicates that the group should move to a new food patch. The other monkeys then decide whether to support the direction suggested, or whether to offer an alternative. If an alternate direction is proposed, each group member votes by joining with his or her favoured candidate. Like the leader himself, they walk a few steps, pause, and then turn their heads back to inspect the rest of the group."

That is the last of the 3 pages
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Old 15-12-2012, 08:14
HenryVIII
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Quite simply the BBC are not allowed to carry ads on websites, or indeed tv channels in the UK. So they are blocked here. No probs - it's a source of income, just like the Fawlty Towers DvD you bought in HMV!
No, I don't think it is that simple. The real issue I have with this specific instance, is not why the BBC's US web pages are not available to UK viewers, but why is this interesting piece of BBC journalism not on the BBC's UK web site.

Fair enough, they don't want us viewing adverts, but why are we not even allowed to read the story somewhere else?

That whole section - BBC Future - looks really interesting but UK viewers it seems will never get to see it, unless they resort to web trickery that many will not be familiar with.

It is stupid in the extreme IMO.

Let's have the BBC - a UK organisation - do some really interesting journalism. Then stop anyone in the UK from seeing it.

Sounds more like KCTV than BBC.
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Old 15-12-2012, 09:07
theonlyweeman
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No, I don't think it is that simple. The real issue I have with this specific instance, is not why the BBC's US web pages are not available to UK viewers, but why is this interesting piece of BBC journalism not on the BBC's UK web site.

Fair enough, they don't want us viewing adverts, but why are we not even allowed to read the story somewhere else?

That whole section - BBC Future - looks really interesting but UK viewers it seems will never get to see it, unless they resort to web trickery that many will not be familiar with.

It is stupid in the extreme IMO.

Let's have the BBC - a UK organisation - do some really interesting journalism. Then stop anyone in the UK from seeing it.

Sounds more like KCTV than BBC.
You are completely ignoring the point. The BBC DID NOT pay for it, it's funded by advertising, so the BBC can not show it in the UK...
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Old 15-12-2012, 10:34
alcockell
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If I'd said "A few minutes Binging..." it would sound silly.

Bing Maps is great, often far better resolution than Google and for cities they have 3D views from N,S,E+W which give you a far better idea of the area. Very useful if you are driving to somewhere unfamiliar.
I seem to remember a sketch where Frankie Howerd was dictating his memoirs - turned into a bit of a bing-bong battle...
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Old 15-12-2012, 10:35
caz789
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So we don't get BBC World News as it is paid for by global advertisers, even though it is made in the UK studios. This would explain a lot.
Also Elizabeth Murdoch selling Shine to Daddy last year who produce Merlin and Masterchef. No wonder it's been compromised (in my opinion).
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Old 15-12-2012, 10:42
caz789
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You are completely ignoring the point. The BBC DID NOT pay for it, it's funded by advertising, so the BBC can not show it in the UK...
Yes, so it's not impartial, it relies on its advertisers, but it presumably relies heavily on the reputation of the BBC and programmes funded by the licence fee.
Intellectual property or something? Might be way off-track here, don't really get how this works.
BBC certainly implies it's representing Britain, when potentially it has very little to do with us.
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Old 15-12-2012, 11:35
mossy2103
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Yes, so it's not impartial, it relies on its advertisers, but it presumably relies heavily on the reputation of the BBC and programmes funded by the licence fee.
Very heavily influenced by its ethics and standards:

OUR ETHICS AND STANDARDS

BBC Worldwide is committed to the highest standards of ethics, honesty, openness and accountability. It is crucial that we take all necessary steps to protect the reputation of the BBC and the value of the BBC brand. As an organisation, BBC Worldwide takes a zero-tolerance approach to any form of corruption: in the course of our business activities we do not endorse any form of fraud or corruption from either our own staff or those acting on our behalf.

This commitment is reflected in the key principles in the BBC Worldwide Anti Fraud and Corruption Code of Conduct on our Ethics and Standards page, which we expect all our staff and those acting on our behalf to understand and comply with.

For information on ethical sourcing, see BBC Worldwide's Code of Ethical Policy and our WorldwideAware Corporate Responsibility pages.
http://www.bbcworldwide.com/about-us.aspx


which in turn will be underpinned by the BBC's Editorial Guidelines:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/editorialguidelines/guidelines/
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Old 15-12-2012, 14:43
HenryVIII
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You are completely ignoring the point. The BBC DID NOT pay for it, it's funded by advertising, so the BBC can not show it in the UK...
What point?

I never said anything about who pays for, nor do I care who pays for it.

The point I was making was about accessibility.

What other non-UK site, funded by advertisers in that country is not available to UK viewers if they wish to visit it? Very few...

Do US websites ban UK visitors because the sites are not funded by UK visitors?

I am well aware that it is funded by non-UK advertising. That point has already been made in this thread.

But I still can't see any sensible justification for why I am not allowed to see its content.
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Old 15-12-2012, 15:20
theonlyweeman
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What point?

I never said anything about who pays for, nor do I care who pays for it.

The point I was making was about accessibility.

What other non-UK site, funded by advertisers in that country is not available to UK viewers if they wish to visit it? Very few...

Do US websites ban UK visitors because the sites are not funded by UK visitors?

I am well aware that it is funded by non-UK advertising. That point has already been made in this thread.

But I still can't see any sensible justification for why I am not allowed to see its content.
The content is advertising funded.

The BBC may not show advertising on it's products in the UK.

BBCW have decided that to show advertising on the main BBC website within the UK would cause confusion, so have blocked the content.
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Old 15-12-2012, 15:57
HenryVIII
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The content is advertising funded.

The BBC may not show advertising on it's products in the UK.

BBCW have decided that to show advertising on the main BBC website within the UK would cause confusion, so have blocked the content.
Then simply block the ads. If they can tell I am not in the UK, and stop me viewing the page, they can equally not display the ads... very, very, simple...

Or, host the content on a bbc.co.uk page, without any ads. Serving up the same content from a CMS to different pages is again very, very simple. Especially given the millions the BBC spend on their website.
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Old 15-12-2012, 16:22
mossy2103
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Then simply block the ads. If they can tell I am not in the UK, and stop me viewing the page, they can equally not display the ads... very, very, simple...

Or, host the content on a bbc.co.uk page, without any ads. Serving up the same content from a CMS to different pages is again very, very simple. Especially given the millions the BBC spend on their website.
Addressed much earlier in post 29
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Old 15-12-2012, 18:48
JAS84
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This wasn't.
Or, host the content on a bbc.co.uk page, without any ads. Serving up the same content from a CMS to different pages is again very, very simple. Especially given the millions the BBC spend on their website.
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Old 15-12-2012, 19:01
DuncanEmery
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I suppose one solution to this problem is for the BBC to close it web pages - which would please lots of rivals, We could even end the license fee and close BBC down altogether - that it something which certain media tycoons have wanted to happen for years,
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Old 15-12-2012, 19:56
Spdub2
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Do US websites ban UK visitors because the sites are not funded by UK visitors? .
Currently not but Showtime did a few years ago
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Old 16-12-2012, 06:58
mossy2103
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Er, it was:


It's due to webpage design issues - either have a webpage that contains acres of whirespace where the ads are supposed to be (not at all professional), as well as having to maintain extra code to determine if an ad is to be displayed or not, or spend money to create & maintain two layouts (one with ads, one without).
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