Originally Posted by bornfree:
“IMO they are both professional dancers.”
“IMO they are both professional dancers.”
Exactly .... which is why she shouldn't have taken part and why in my opinion she won't win.
Why is Denise a better dancer than James?
3 of 4
Originally Posted by natalian:
“She isn't better than James”
“She isn't better than James”
Well she was tonight .... he couldn't do some of the choreo and her swivel action was far superior.
I dont think you can say she has not improved over the competition I think she is better and tonight she did outdance James and he needs to pull his socks up to ensure it does not happen again , but maybe his foot is causing problems
Originally Posted by Button62:
“Well she was tonight .... he couldn't do some of the choreo and her swivel action was far superior.”
“Well she was tonight .... he couldn't do some of the choreo and her swivel action was far superior.”
it was and he couldn't
Originally Posted by Kewpee:
“I want to like Denise, in fact I started out doing so, but I feel like I'm being conned, like I'm expected to swallow some fallacy that she had no idea about dancing until Strictly.
She knows about posture, about arm placement, about stance and staging.
She is so obviously much better than any of the others and has been from day one.
because of that I don't look forward to watching her, I have no expectation of her, she perfoms as she always has since day one. There's no degree of improvement, or any showing that she has improved, because she has never had to.
Because of this I can't support her or want her anyhwere near the final, it's all too coy a performance duing every interview, playing the innocent .
I don't dislike her, I just don't look forward to her dance, and I feel it's increasing unfair on those that have worked hard to get to a better level from where they staarted.
Kimbery, Louis, Dani...all work hard, even Michael, but they will never be top of the leader board, unless it's in a shared place with Denise.
It makes the contest a done deal.
A bit like one of the Hairy Bikers going on Masterchef. They've not been classically trained, but have been cooking to a certain level for some time.
Tonight she out danced James in a dance that is all about dacning in a character performance. It just proved my point to me.
”
“I want to like Denise, in fact I started out doing so, but I feel like I'm being conned, like I'm expected to swallow some fallacy that she had no idea about dancing until Strictly.
She knows about posture, about arm placement, about stance and staging.
She is so obviously much better than any of the others and has been from day one.
because of that I don't look forward to watching her, I have no expectation of her, she perfoms as she always has since day one. There's no degree of improvement, or any showing that she has improved, because she has never had to.
Because of this I can't support her or want her anyhwere near the final, it's all too coy a performance duing every interview, playing the innocent .
I don't dislike her, I just don't look forward to her dance, and I feel it's increasing unfair on those that have worked hard to get to a better level from where they staarted.
Kimbery, Louis, Dani...all work hard, even Michael, but they will never be top of the leader board, unless it's in a shared place with Denise.
It makes the contest a done deal.
A bit like one of the Hairy Bikers going on Masterchef. They've not been classically trained, but have been cooking to a certain level for some time.
Tonight she out danced James in a dance that is all about dacning in a character performance. It just proved my point to me.
”
Thank you for putting what I have been feeling about DeKnees all this time into words for me. Spot on. All of it. POST OF THE DAY!
Originally Posted by Forget-me-not:
“Charlston is not part of the ballroom canon so James is not an expert in it, put that with the fact that Denise is a showgirl with some dance experience so in this dance it is not surprising she can match him.
”
“Charlston is not part of the ballroom canon so James is not an expert in it, put that with the fact that Denise is a showgirl with some dance experience so in this dance it is not surprising she can match him.
”
This makes sense. James has no reason to know how to dance this anymore than Denise. Denise can dance, so she danced this well just like prevous good celebs e.g. Kara have done.
Originally Posted by Miriam_R:
“This makes sense. James has no reason to know how to dance this anymore than Denise. Denise can dance, so she danced this well just like prevous good celebs e.g. Kara have done.”
“This makes sense. James has no reason to know how to dance this anymore than Denise. Denise can dance, so she danced this well just like prevous good celebs e.g. Kara have done.”
True, but with Kara and Artem you could still tell who the professional dancer was, as has been the case for me with every dance of every series. Tonight the line was somewhat blurred.
Originally Posted by snogglewort:
“Thank you for putting what I have been feeling about DeKnees all this time into words for me. Spot on. All of it. POST OF THE DAY!”
“Thank you for putting what I have been feeling about DeKnees all this time into words for me. Spot on. All of it. POST OF THE DAY!
”
Yep. That post just about said it all.
And top of the leaderboard yet again. Tedious. The other celebs and pros must be well peed off.
Anyone who has seen Chicago (particularly the whole 'they both reached for the gun' routine) would know that Denise is much better suited to the Charleston than James would be.
Originally Posted by Caramel Crunch:
“I thought James was very ungracious not crediting the outside choreographer when the judges praised it.”
“I thought James was very ungracious not crediting the outside choreographer when the judges praised it.”
I agree I find James quite bigheaded.
Originally Posted by prgirl_cesca:
“Anyone who has seen Chicago (particularly the whole 'they both reached for the gun' routine) would know that Denise is much better suited to the Charleston than James would be.”
“Anyone who has seen Chicago (particularly the whole 'they both reached for the gun' routine) would know that Denise is much better suited to the Charleston than James would be.”
That's the bit where Denise actually did sit on a chair!
Originally Posted by Kewpee:
“
Kimbery, Louis, Dani...all work hard, even Michael, but they will never be top of the leader board, unless it's in a shared place with Denise.
It makes the contest a done deal.(”
“
Kimbery, Louis, Dani...all work hard, even Michael, but they will never be top of the leader board, unless it's in a shared place with Denise.
It makes the contest a done deal.(”
Done deal? You're forgetting the power of popularity. Chris Hollins won the year that Ricky Whittle was meant to be the done deal, and why, because Chris was far more liked than Ricky by the public. Just as the public (going by this forum) like Louis and Lisa more than Denise. There have been a couple (or even more years) where the better techical dancers didn't win.
I think Denise works hard, and just because she's of a higher level doesn't mean she works less hard. I thnk there's an argument that because she's better she has do do more harder things than the lesser dancers. So while Michael and all the lesser dancers work hard to get basic steps right, she prob works hard to get harder steps and sequences right. I'm mean it's all relative in a way. There are different levels with the couples (as the case with every year) but eveyone works hard at their own level and are pushed by their pro at that own level. Denise isn't doing the routines that Michael does because she is doing slighty harder ones than him. Michael can dance at his level and Denise at hers, and they both work hard within their own capabilities. It's harsh to say Denise doesn't work hard because I'm sure her and James would say otherwise. And on ITT their hours are the second highest it looked, so they are spending time in training doing something. And what's the saying, easy to get to the top but staying there is the hardest part. Denise has to prove she can stay at the top just like the others have to prove that they aren't still at the bottom. Contrasting challenges but both can be hard if you fairly analyse it.
And of course she can improve, everyone can improve at whatever level they are at. There is no such thing as not being able to improve, you don't get 9s 10s for complacency. You get those scores from actually getting on the floor and performing the dance well. Imo average dancers this series have had inflated marks at times but no one cares about, just the marks Denise gets.
There is no point measuring celebs equally, as on Strictly they have NEVER EVER been equal from the start. You will always get both ends of the spectrun and, imo, Kara was a better dancer, so it shows that Denise hasn't been the first really good dancer and she will likely not be the last either.
Those that are bothered about good dancers on Strictly, why don't you complain in your numbers to the BBC to make Strictly a show purely for those that must be of a below average level to start off with. Get the celebs that have never ever been to ballet school as teenagers, never been to stage school and never been naturally gifted either, and just have those that are not good (either naturally or via previous learning) so that they are all on a similarly dire level from the start. Is this a silly point to make, of course it is! Because this is just an entertainment show!
Originally Posted by Button62:
“True, but with Kara and Artem you could still tell who the professional dancer was, as has been the case for me with every dance of every series. Tonight the line was somewhat blurred.”
“True, but with Kara and Artem you could still tell who the professional dancer was, as has been the case for me with every dance of every series. Tonight the line was somewhat blurred.”
For me it was blurred with Kara and Artem too at times, but that's just my opinion. Also to me Artem is a much better dancer than James (imo), and does better choreography than James too (imo) so Kara was prob fractionally more challenged than Denise is this series. So the fact that Kara could look wonderful alongside someone as good as Artem (in or out of hold) is of great credit to her! Maybe Denise would not be perfoming as well as she is now if she had been paired with Artem, as to me, Kara and Artem where a better dance couple than Denise and James are now, again imo.
Originally Posted by Miriam_R:
“Done deal? You're forgetting the power of popularity. Chris Hollins won the year that Ricky Whittle was meant to be the done deal, and why, because Chris was far more liked than Ricky by the public. Just as the public (going by this forum) like Louis and Lisa more than Denise. There have been a couple (or even more years) where the better techical dancers didn't win.
I think Denise works hard, and just because she's of a higher level doesn't mean she works less hard. I thnk there's an argument that because she's better she has do do more harder things than the lesser dancers. So while Michael and all the lesser dancers work hard to get basic steps right, she prob works hard to get harder steps and sequences right. I'm mean it's all relative in a way. There are different levels with the couples (as the case with every year) but eveyone works hard at their own level and are pushed by their pro at that own level. Denise isn't doing the routines that Michael does because she is doing slighty harder ones than him. Michael can dance at his level and Denise at hers, and they both work hard within their own capabilities. It's harsh to say Denise doesn't work hard because I'm sure her and James would say otherwise. And on ITT their hours are the second highest it looked, so they are spending time in training doing something. And what's the saying, easy to get to the top but staying there is the hardest part. Denise has to prove she can stay at the top just like the others have to prove that they aren't still at the bottom. Contrasting challenges but both can be hard if you fairly analyse it.
And of course she can improve, everyone can improve at whatever level they are at. There is no such thing as not being able to improve, you don't get 9s 10s for complacency. You get those scores from actually getting on the floor and performing the dance well. Imo average dancers this series have had inflated marks at times but no one cares about, just the marks Denise gets.
There is no point measuring celebs equally, as on Strictly they have NEVER EVER been equal from the start. You will always get both ends of the spectrun and, imo, Kara was a better dancer, so it shows that Denise hasn't been the first really good dancer and she will likely not be the last either.
Those that are bothered about good dancers on Strictly, why don't you complain in your numbers to the BBC to make Strictly a show purely for those that must be of a below average level to start off with. Get the celebs that have never ever been to ballet school as teenagers, never been to stage school and never been naturally gifted either, and just have those that are not good (either naturally or via previous learning) so that they are all on a similarly dire level from the start. Is this a silly point to make, of course it is! Because this is just an entertainment show!”
“Done deal? You're forgetting the power of popularity. Chris Hollins won the year that Ricky Whittle was meant to be the done deal, and why, because Chris was far more liked than Ricky by the public. Just as the public (going by this forum) like Louis and Lisa more than Denise. There have been a couple (or even more years) where the better techical dancers didn't win.
I think Denise works hard, and just because she's of a higher level doesn't mean she works less hard. I thnk there's an argument that because she's better she has do do more harder things than the lesser dancers. So while Michael and all the lesser dancers work hard to get basic steps right, she prob works hard to get harder steps and sequences right. I'm mean it's all relative in a way. There are different levels with the couples (as the case with every year) but eveyone works hard at their own level and are pushed by their pro at that own level. Denise isn't doing the routines that Michael does because she is doing slighty harder ones than him. Michael can dance at his level and Denise at hers, and they both work hard within their own capabilities. It's harsh to say Denise doesn't work hard because I'm sure her and James would say otherwise. And on ITT their hours are the second highest it looked, so they are spending time in training doing something. And what's the saying, easy to get to the top but staying there is the hardest part. Denise has to prove she can stay at the top just like the others have to prove that they aren't still at the bottom. Contrasting challenges but both can be hard if you fairly analyse it.
And of course she can improve, everyone can improve at whatever level they are at. There is no such thing as not being able to improve, you don't get 9s 10s for complacency. You get those scores from actually getting on the floor and performing the dance well. Imo average dancers this series have had inflated marks at times but no one cares about, just the marks Denise gets.
There is no point measuring celebs equally, as on Strictly they have NEVER EVER been equal from the start. You will always get both ends of the spectrun and, imo, Kara was a better dancer, so it shows that Denise hasn't been the first really good dancer and she will likely not be the last either.
Those that are bothered about good dancers on Strictly, why don't you complain in your numbers to the BBC to make Strictly a show purely for those that must be of a below average level to start off with. Get the celebs that have never ever been to ballet school as teenagers, never been to stage school and never been naturally gifted either, and just have those that are not good (either naturally or via previous learning) so that they are all on a similarly dire level from the start. Is this a silly point to make, of course it is! Because this is just an entertainment show!”
I'm not forgetting the power of popularity at all, and fully expect Denise to be beaten into second or third place.
That will always happen on this sort of show, because it's not JUST about the dancing.
That's partly my point I suppose, I don't have a problem with Denise being better than others, or that she has had professional dancing experience (slightly different to attending stage school). My problem is that we have been expected to swallow some fallacy about her having little or no experience since day one, when it's blatantly obvious this is not the case.
I enjoyed watching Denise initially, and still don't dislike her as a person, I am just tired of being expected to swallow the party line. Trotted out again this week by no less than Christopher Biggins.
Originally Posted by Kewpee:
“I'm not forgetting the power of popularity at all, and fully expect Denise to be beaten into second or third place.
That will always happen on this sort of show, because it's not JUST about the dancing.
”
“I'm not forgetting the power of popularity at all, and fully expect Denise to be beaten into second or third place.
That will always happen on this sort of show, because it's not JUST about the dancing.
”
Exactly! so why are you so bothered that she's good if you fully expect her to not win anyway because you know the show is like that. She won't win, so stress less about whether she is good and if others think she is good because someone that you want to win will do so instead anyway, as you fully expect.
Originally Posted by Kewpee:
“
she has had professional dancing experience (slightly different to attending stage school). My problem is that we have been expected to swallow some fallacy about her having little or no experience since day one, when it's blatantly obvious this is not the case.”
“
she has had professional dancing experience (slightly different to attending stage school). My problem is that we have been expected to swallow some fallacy about her having little or no experience since day one, when it's blatantly obvious this is not the case.”
Please enlighten me as to what she is a titled Professional in? What is the qualifiaction called, because I was under the impression that a celeb was not allowed to be a professionally qualifed dancer in an area of dance in order to be allowed on to the show. I trained in ballet into my late teens but I am not Professionally qualifed just because I did years of lessons. So is Denise just trained for many years, or is she a fully fledged qualified Professional? People on here say she's a Professional but they don't ever say or know exactly what she's officially a professional in. Tap, ballet modern dance, what?
Originally Posted by Miriam_R:
“Please enlighten me as to what she is a titled Professional in? What is the qualifiaction called, becauase I was under the impression that a celeb was not allowed to be a professionally qualifed dancer in an area of dance in order to be allowed on to the show. I trained in ballet into my late teens but I am not Professionally qualifed just because I did years of lessons. So is Denise just trained for many years, or is she a fully fledged qualified Professional? People on here say she's a Professional but they don't ever say or know exactly what she's officially a professional in.”
“Please enlighten me as to what she is a titled Professional in? What is the qualifiaction called, becauase I was under the impression that a celeb was not allowed to be a professionally qualifed dancer in an area of dance in order to be allowed on to the show. I trained in ballet into my late teens but I am not Professionally qualifed just because I did years of lessons. So is Denise just trained for many years, or is she a fully fledged qualified Professional? People on here say she's a Professional but they don't ever say or know exactly what she's officially a professional in.”
Professional dancing experience.
As in being part of a show that included dancing in a professional capacity. She's been choreographed and followed instruction for stage shows.
Originally Posted by Miriam_R:
“Exactly! so why are you so bothered that she's good if you fully expect her to not win anyway because you know the show is like that. She won't win, so stress less about whether she is good and if others think she is good because someone that you want to win will do so instead anyway, as you fully expect.”
“Exactly! so why are you so bothered that she's good if you fully expect her to not win anyway because you know the show is like that. She won't win, so stress less about whether she is good and if others think she is good because someone that you want to win will do so instead anyway, as you fully expect.”
Because, again, I am tired of being expected to believe fairy tales.
Originally Posted by Kewpee:
“Professional dancing experience.
As in being part of a show that included dancing in a professional capacity. She's been choreographed and followed instruction for stage shows.”
“Professional dancing experience.
As in being part of a show that included dancing in a professional capacity. She's been choreographed and followed instruction for stage shows.”
no I looked it up no such qualification
Originally Posted by Button62:
“True, but with Kara and Artem you could still tell who the professional dancer was, as has been the case for me with every dance of every series. Tonight the line was somewhat blurred.”
“True, but with Kara and Artem you could still tell who the professional dancer was, as has been the case for me with every dance of every series. Tonight the line was somewhat blurred.”
My friend went to stage school with Kara - which included extensive dance training - what is the difference with Denise?
Originally Posted by Miriam_R:
“Done deal? You're forgetting the power of popularity. Chris Hollins won the year that Ricky Whittle was meant to be the done deal, and why, because Chris was far more liked than Ricky by the public. Just as the public (going by this forum) like Louis and Lisa more than Denise. There have been a couple (or even more years) where the better techical dancers didn't win.
I think Denise works hard, and just because she's of a higher level doesn't mean she works less hard. I thnk there's an argument that because she's better she has do do more harder things than the lesser dancers. So while Michael and all the lesser dancers work hard to get basic steps right, she prob works hard to get harder steps and sequences right. I'm mean it's all relative in a way. There are different levels with the couples (as the case with every year) but eveyone works hard at their own level and are pushed by their pro at that own level. Denise isn't doing the routines that Michael does because she is doing slighty harder ones than him. Michael can dance at his level and Denise at hers, and they both work hard within their own capabilities. It's harsh to say Denise doesn't work hard because I'm sure her and James would say otherwise. And on ITT their hours are the second highest it looked, so they are spending time in training doing something. And what's the saying, easy to get to the top but staying there is the hardest part. Denise has to prove she can stay at the top just like the others have to prove that they aren't still at the bottom. Contrasting challenges but both can be hard if you fairly analyse it.
And of course she can improve, everyone can improve at whatever level they are at. There is no such thing as not being able to improve, you don't get 9s 10s for complacency. You get those scores from actually getting on the floor and performing the dance well. Imo average dancers this series have had inflated marks at times but no one cares about, just the marks Denise gets.
There is no point measuring celebs equally, as on Strictly they have NEVER EVER been equal from the start. You will always get both ends of the spectrun and, imo, Kara was a better dancer, so it shows that Denise hasn't been the first really good dancer and she will likely not be the last either.
Those that are bothered about good dancers on Strictly, why don't you complain in your numbers to the BBC to make Strictly a show purely for those that must be of a below average level to start off with. Get the celebs that have never ever been to ballet school as teenagers, never been to stage school and never been naturally gifted either, and just have those that are not good (either naturally or via previous learning) so that they are all on a similarly dire level from the start. Is this a silly point to make, of course it is! Because this is just an entertainment show!”
“Done deal? You're forgetting the power of popularity. Chris Hollins won the year that Ricky Whittle was meant to be the done deal, and why, because Chris was far more liked than Ricky by the public. Just as the public (going by this forum) like Louis and Lisa more than Denise. There have been a couple (or even more years) where the better techical dancers didn't win.
I think Denise works hard, and just because she's of a higher level doesn't mean she works less hard. I thnk there's an argument that because she's better she has do do more harder things than the lesser dancers. So while Michael and all the lesser dancers work hard to get basic steps right, she prob works hard to get harder steps and sequences right. I'm mean it's all relative in a way. There are different levels with the couples (as the case with every year) but eveyone works hard at their own level and are pushed by their pro at that own level. Denise isn't doing the routines that Michael does because she is doing slighty harder ones than him. Michael can dance at his level and Denise at hers, and they both work hard within their own capabilities. It's harsh to say Denise doesn't work hard because I'm sure her and James would say otherwise. And on ITT their hours are the second highest it looked, so they are spending time in training doing something. And what's the saying, easy to get to the top but staying there is the hardest part. Denise has to prove she can stay at the top just like the others have to prove that they aren't still at the bottom. Contrasting challenges but both can be hard if you fairly analyse it.
And of course she can improve, everyone can improve at whatever level they are at. There is no such thing as not being able to improve, you don't get 9s 10s for complacency. You get those scores from actually getting on the floor and performing the dance well. Imo average dancers this series have had inflated marks at times but no one cares about, just the marks Denise gets.
There is no point measuring celebs equally, as on Strictly they have NEVER EVER been equal from the start. You will always get both ends of the spectrun and, imo, Kara was a better dancer, so it shows that Denise hasn't been the first really good dancer and she will likely not be the last either.
Those that are bothered about good dancers on Strictly, why don't you complain in your numbers to the BBC to make Strictly a show purely for those that must be of a below average level to start off with. Get the celebs that have never ever been to ballet school as teenagers, never been to stage school and never been naturally gifted either, and just have those that are not good (either naturally or via previous learning) so that they are all on a similarly dire level from the start. Is this a silly point to make, of course it is! Because this is just an entertainment show!”
Originally Posted by Miriam_R:
“For me it was blurred with Kara and Artem too at times, but that's just my opinion. Also to me Artem is a much better dancer than James (imo), and does better choreography than James too (imo) so Kara was prob fractionally more challenged than Denise is this series. So the fact that Kara could look wonderful alongside someone as good as Artem (in or out of hold) is of great credit to her! Maybe Denise would not be perfoming as well as she is now if she had been paired with Artem, as to me, Kara and Artem where a better dance couple than Denise and James are now, again imo.”
“For me it was blurred with Kara and Artem too at times, but that's just my opinion. Also to me Artem is a much better dancer than James (imo), and does better choreography than James too (imo) so Kara was prob fractionally more challenged than Denise is this series. So the fact that Kara could look wonderful alongside someone as good as Artem (in or out of hold) is of great credit to her! Maybe Denise would not be perfoming as well as she is now if she had been paired with Artem, as to me, Kara and Artem where a better dance couple than Denise and James are now, again imo.”
Originally Posted by Miriam_R:
“Please enlighten me as to what she is a titled Professional in? What is the qualifiaction called, because I was under the impression that a celeb was not allowed to be a professionally qualifed dancer in an area of dance in order to be allowed on to the show. I trained in ballet into my late teens but I am not Professionally qualifed just because I did years of lessons. So is Denise just trained for many years, or is she a fully fledged qualified Professional? People on here say she's a Professional but they don't ever say or know exactly what she's officially a professional in. Tap, ballet modern dance, what?”
“Please enlighten me as to what she is a titled Professional in? What is the qualifiaction called, because I was under the impression that a celeb was not allowed to be a professionally qualifed dancer in an area of dance in order to be allowed on to the show. I trained in ballet into my late teens but I am not Professionally qualifed just because I did years of lessons. So is Denise just trained for many years, or is she a fully fledged qualified Professional? People on here say she's a Professional but they don't ever say or know exactly what she's officially a professional in. Tap, ballet modern dance, what?”
great posts.
Originally Posted by Kewpee:
“Professional dancing experience.
As in being part of a show that included dancing in a professional capacity. She's been choreographed and followed instruction for stage shows.”
“Professional dancing experience.
As in being part of a show that included dancing in a professional capacity. She's been choreographed and followed instruction for stage shows.”
As has Kimberley, Dani and many other previous competitors on SCD
Originally Posted by Kewpee:
“I want to like Denise, in fact I started out doing so, but I feel like I'm being conned, like I'm expected to swallow some fallacy that she had no idea about dancing until Strictly.
She knows about posture, about arm placement, about stance and staging.
She is so obviously much better than any of the others and has been from day one.
because of that I don't look forward to watching her, I have no expectation of her, she perfoms as she always has since day one. There's no degree of improvement, or any showing that she has improved, because she has never had to.
Because of this I can't support her or want her anyhwere near the final, it's all too coy a performance duing every interview, playing the innocent .
I don't dislike her, I just don't look forward to her dance, and I feel it's increasing unfair on those that have worked hard to get to a better level from where they staarted.
Kimbery, Louis, Dani...all work hard, even Michael, but they will never be top of the leader board, unless it's in a shared place with Denise.
It makes the contest a done deal.
A bit like one of the Hairy Bikers going on Masterchef. They've not been classically trained, but have been cooking to a certain level for some time.
Tonight she out danced James in a dance that is all about dacning in a character performance. It just proved my point to me.”
“I want to like Denise, in fact I started out doing so, but I feel like I'm being conned, like I'm expected to swallow some fallacy that she had no idea about dancing until Strictly.
She knows about posture, about arm placement, about stance and staging.
She is so obviously much better than any of the others and has been from day one.
because of that I don't look forward to watching her, I have no expectation of her, she perfoms as she always has since day one. There's no degree of improvement, or any showing that she has improved, because she has never had to.
Because of this I can't support her or want her anyhwere near the final, it's all too coy a performance duing every interview, playing the innocent .
I don't dislike her, I just don't look forward to her dance, and I feel it's increasing unfair on those that have worked hard to get to a better level from where they staarted.
Kimbery, Louis, Dani...all work hard, even Michael, but they will never be top of the leader board, unless it's in a shared place with Denise.
It makes the contest a done deal.
A bit like one of the Hairy Bikers going on Masterchef. They've not been classically trained, but have been cooking to a certain level for some time.
Tonight she out danced James in a dance that is all about dacning in a character performance. It just proved my point to me.
”
This sums it up for me too.
Great post.
Originally Posted by Miriam_R:
“Done deal? You're forgetting the power of popularity. Chris Hollins won the year that Ricky Whittle was meant to be the done deal, and why, because Chris was far more liked than Ricky by the public. Just as the public (going by this forum) like Louis and Lisa more than Denise. There have been a couple (or even more years) where the better techical dancers didn't win.
I think Denise works hard, and just because she's of a higher level doesn't mean she works less hard. I thnk there's an argument that because she's better she has do do more harder things than the lesser dancers. So while Michael and all the lesser dancers work hard to get basic steps right, she prob works hard to get harder steps and sequences right. I'm mean it's all relative in a way. There are different levels with the couples (as the case with every year) but eveyone works hard at their own level and are pushed by their pro at that own level. Denise isn't doing the routines that Michael does because she is doing slighty harder ones than him. Michael can dance at his level and Denise at hers, and they both work hard within their own capabilities. It's harsh to say Denise doesn't work hard because I'm sure her and James would say otherwise. And on ITT their hours are the second highest it looked, so they are spending time in training doing something. And what's the saying, easy to get to the top but staying there is the hardest part. Denise has to prove she can stay at the top just like the others have to prove that they aren't still at the bottom. Contrasting challenges but both can be hard if you fairly analyse it.
And of course she can improve, everyone can improve at whatever level they are at. There is no such thing as not being able to improve, you don't get 9s 10s for complacency. You get those scores from actually getting on the floor and performing the dance well. Imo average dancers this series have had inflated marks at times but no one cares about, just the marks Denise gets.
There is no point measuring celebs equally, as on Strictly they have NEVER EVER been equal from the start. You will always get both ends of the spectrun and, imo, Kara was a better dancer, so it shows that Denise hasn't been the first really good dancer and she will likely not be the last either.
Those that are bothered about good dancers on Strictly, why don't you complain in your numbers to the BBC to make Strictly a show purely for those that must be of a below average level to start off with. Get the celebs that have never ever been to ballet school as teenagers, never been to stage school and never been naturally gifted either, and just have those that are not good (either naturally or via previous learning) so that they are all on a similarly dire level from the start. Is this a silly point to make, of course it is! Because this is just an entertainment show!”
“Done deal? You're forgetting the power of popularity. Chris Hollins won the year that Ricky Whittle was meant to be the done deal, and why, because Chris was far more liked than Ricky by the public. Just as the public (going by this forum) like Louis and Lisa more than Denise. There have been a couple (or even more years) where the better techical dancers didn't win.
I think Denise works hard, and just because she's of a higher level doesn't mean she works less hard. I thnk there's an argument that because she's better she has do do more harder things than the lesser dancers. So while Michael and all the lesser dancers work hard to get basic steps right, she prob works hard to get harder steps and sequences right. I'm mean it's all relative in a way. There are different levels with the couples (as the case with every year) but eveyone works hard at their own level and are pushed by their pro at that own level. Denise isn't doing the routines that Michael does because she is doing slighty harder ones than him. Michael can dance at his level and Denise at hers, and they both work hard within their own capabilities. It's harsh to say Denise doesn't work hard because I'm sure her and James would say otherwise. And on ITT their hours are the second highest it looked, so they are spending time in training doing something. And what's the saying, easy to get to the top but staying there is the hardest part. Denise has to prove she can stay at the top just like the others have to prove that they aren't still at the bottom. Contrasting challenges but both can be hard if you fairly analyse it.
And of course she can improve, everyone can improve at whatever level they are at. There is no such thing as not being able to improve, you don't get 9s 10s for complacency. You get those scores from actually getting on the floor and performing the dance well. Imo average dancers this series have had inflated marks at times but no one cares about, just the marks Denise gets.
There is no point measuring celebs equally, as on Strictly they have NEVER EVER been equal from the start. You will always get both ends of the spectrun and, imo, Kara was a better dancer, so it shows that Denise hasn't been the first really good dancer and she will likely not be the last either.
Those that are bothered about good dancers on Strictly, why don't you complain in your numbers to the BBC to make Strictly a show purely for those that must be of a below average level to start off with. Get the celebs that have never ever been to ballet school as teenagers, never been to stage school and never been naturally gifted either, and just have those that are not good (either naturally or via previous learning) so that they are all on a similarly dire level from the start. Is this a silly point to make, of course it is! Because this is just an entertainment show!”
^^This. Great post.
Originally Posted by Kewpee:
“Professional dancing experience.
As in being part of a show that included dancing in a professional capacity. She's been choreographed and followed instruction for stage shows.”
“Professional dancing experience.
As in being part of a show that included dancing in a professional capacity. She's been choreographed and followed instruction for stage shows.”
Dancing in a professional capactity (of Tv or theatre) still has it's varying levels of dance skill capability and quality. Doing Swan Lake and doing Grease Lightening are not the same type of performancing shows imo and argubly don't require the same expert level of dance grounding and ability in them. Some stage shows do a large percenage of acting and then some dance routines here and there that you me and my mum could do if we put enough hours prep into. Then some shows are just full out dance and require more than just an actor or popstar that can do abit of modern dance to do qualify of the standard to take the direction and choreoraphy of it. Not all stage shows have high quality dance routines in them, so being a professional setup doesn't mean the dancing is of a professional competeing level. Professional that isn't amateur and then professional of a world competeing level are not the same thing. Not to me anyway. And neither is learning from a professional mean that you yourself will become a professional product of that teaching either. Otherwise all of us that were taught by qualifed dance professionals would be Pro dancers.
Originally Posted by Miriam_R:
“Done deal? You're forgetting the power of popularity. Chris Hollins won the year that Ricky Whittle was meant to be the done deal, and why, because Chris was far more liked than Ricky by the public. Just as the public (going by this forum) like Louis and Lisa more than Denise. There have been a couple (or even more years) where the better techical dancers didn't win.
I think Denise works hard, and just because she's of a higher level doesn't mean she works less hard. I thnk there's an argument that because she's better she has do do more harder things than the lesser dancers. So while Michael and all the lesser dancers work hard to get basic steps right, she prob works hard to get harder steps and sequences right. I'm mean it's all relative in a way. There are different levels with the couples (as the case with every year) but eveyone works hard at their own level and are pushed by their pro at that own level. Denise isn't doing the routines that Michael does because she is doing slighty harder ones than him. Michael can dance at his level and Denise at hers, and they both work hard within their own capabilities. It's harsh to say Denise doesn't work hard because I'm sure her and James would say otherwise. And on ITT their hours are the second highest it looked, so they are spending time in training doing something. And what's the saying, easy to get to the top but staying there is the hardest part. Denise has to prove she can stay at the top just like the others have to prove that they aren't still at the bottom. Contrasting challenges but both can be hard if you fairly analyse it.
And of course she can improve, everyone can improve at whatever level they are at. There is no such thing as not being able to improve, you don't get 9s 10s for complacency. You get those scores from actually getting on the floor and performing the dance well. Imo average dancers this series have had inflated marks at times but no one cares about, just the marks Denise gets.
There is no point measuring celebs equally, as on Strictly they have NEVER EVER been equal from the start. You will always get both ends of the spectrun and, imo, Kara was a better dancer, so it shows that Denise hasn't been the first really good dancer and she will likely not be the last either.
Those that are bothered about good dancers on Strictly, why don't you complain in your numbers to the BBC to make Strictly a show purely for those that must be of a below average level to start off with. Get the celebs that have never ever been to ballet school as teenagers, never been to stage school and never been naturally gifted either, and just have those that are not good (either naturally or via previous learning) so that they are all on a similarly dire level from the start. Is this a silly point to make, of course it is! Because this is just an entertainment show!”
“Done deal? You're forgetting the power of popularity. Chris Hollins won the year that Ricky Whittle was meant to be the done deal, and why, because Chris was far more liked than Ricky by the public. Just as the public (going by this forum) like Louis and Lisa more than Denise. There have been a couple (or even more years) where the better techical dancers didn't win.
I think Denise works hard, and just because she's of a higher level doesn't mean she works less hard. I thnk there's an argument that because she's better she has do do more harder things than the lesser dancers. So while Michael and all the lesser dancers work hard to get basic steps right, she prob works hard to get harder steps and sequences right. I'm mean it's all relative in a way. There are different levels with the couples (as the case with every year) but eveyone works hard at their own level and are pushed by their pro at that own level. Denise isn't doing the routines that Michael does because she is doing slighty harder ones than him. Michael can dance at his level and Denise at hers, and they both work hard within their own capabilities. It's harsh to say Denise doesn't work hard because I'm sure her and James would say otherwise. And on ITT their hours are the second highest it looked, so they are spending time in training doing something. And what's the saying, easy to get to the top but staying there is the hardest part. Denise has to prove she can stay at the top just like the others have to prove that they aren't still at the bottom. Contrasting challenges but both can be hard if you fairly analyse it.
And of course she can improve, everyone can improve at whatever level they are at. There is no such thing as not being able to improve, you don't get 9s 10s for complacency. You get those scores from actually getting on the floor and performing the dance well. Imo average dancers this series have had inflated marks at times but no one cares about, just the marks Denise gets.
There is no point measuring celebs equally, as on Strictly they have NEVER EVER been equal from the start. You will always get both ends of the spectrun and, imo, Kara was a better dancer, so it shows that Denise hasn't been the first really good dancer and she will likely not be the last either.
Those that are bothered about good dancers on Strictly, why don't you complain in your numbers to the BBC to make Strictly a show purely for those that must be of a below average level to start off with. Get the celebs that have never ever been to ballet school as teenagers, never been to stage school and never been naturally gifted either, and just have those that are not good (either naturally or via previous learning) so that they are all on a similarly dire level from the start. Is this a silly point to make, of course it is! Because this is just an entertainment show!”
Someone who is taking complete sense (IMO)
Now this gets my SCD quote of the night
3 of 4
