I do wonder who is at fault here - as people have said Nicky does seem to have a bit of an attitude and is not really putting as many training hours as the others but then Karen does seem to be, well a bit inexperienced as a teacher/choreographer - at least in the context of a reality show - so I think the problem lies with both of them. I do sometimes wonder how Nicky would have done if he'd been with Ola, Kristina or Flavia.

It'll be interesting to see if they do ask Karen back next year - they asked Aliona back after a less than auspicious start and gave her two contenders in a row so I wonder if they'll cut Karen some slack what with it being her first year.

I think they are two different cases.

I couldn't find reasons in Karen's background that explained why she was hired to teach Ballroom and Latin. She is a good dancer but seems to have specialised in other types of dance.

Aliona has that background in Ballroom and Latin and had spent many years teaching both before joining Strictly.

Oh in another thread someone said that Karen had taught in America - I'm not entirely sure what style of dance she taught. I can't remember the name of the place where they said she taught but apparently it was well known.

Judging it as a dance it was poor, but the judges move the goalposts when this happens.
Len switches to saying it was "fun", "yer gave it sum wallop"
"It wer great entertainment" and ignores the dance quality so he can award it higher marks.
The show is moving more and more away from ballroom dancing to becoming a copy of shows like X-Facotor/BGT with non stop camping and audience applause.
Shame really.

Apologies for insulting your mate! I like her much more now, since she's been on DOI (where I think she's far superior to Willowboobs - please don't tell me she's your friend too ) and after the Outnumbered sketch with Frank Lampard which made me LOL like mad

I think the moving of the goalposts has become a bit of a tactic to disguise the fact that the judges are running out of things to say about the same dances after 10 series and/or don't want to hurt the celeb's feelings too much if they liked the dance. But yes, unfortunately it's not applied consistently and thus reads more as favouritism than as a willingness to be open-minded...

I never thought Aliona's start was actively bad - it was just that her 'interesting' choreographic ideas looked even weirder on a celeb who couldn't really dance terribly well than they did on actual contenders. In its way, Rav's quickstep with the random cartwheel was hardly worse than Matt's NOOYAWWWWWWWWWK AS or Harry's foxtrot minus any trot

That said, Katya is apparently doing the Xmas special and perhaps also the tour, so maybe she's back in the frame for a slot next year too. That'll make it really interesting in terms of seeing who keeps their place and who doesn't.

Personally, after loathing her to start with, I'd be inclined to give Karen another year and bring in Iveta and Katya if both are available...then as Katya's a ballroom specialist we could legitimately jettison Erin (who has seemed awfully tired this series) and everyone else can fight it out!

LOL! I don't mind, honey! I never mind if people don't like who I like - we all have a different opinion! I actually don't know Willowboobs (love it!) at all - never met her! But I think she's very pretty!

yes I think their judging has had to change to keep the viewers who naturally don't just want a dance show - it's just moved over to 'entertainment' more than making sure the dancing is good. We had a couple of series - maybe 4 and 5 - where the balance of everything was pretty perfect - pros taught a skill, celebs learned it, judges judged the dances according to the rules, it was all entertaining in a good way, and people voted and the money went to charity. That's how I liked it best.

I can understand why it has to change - but I don't like the hypocrisy of the judges - if you look back to some of the earlier series, and the stuff they picked up on - and the marking - then compared to now they let them get away with all sorts of stuff!

I understand why though. But don't like it!

That's why I was disappointed that Aliona got injured this series - I was hoping to see whether she could tailor her choreo for a less able celeb - I hope if she's back next year they don't go back to giving her the cream of the crop again!

I personally think it was a great mistake getting rid of Katya - she was a good teacher and we never got to see her with a really able celeb. I'm not sure if she'd have got Nicky if she was in this series because I think she's slightly too tall for him but if she had, she certainly wouldn't have stood for any laziness and bad attitude.

It will be interesting to see if Karen is asked back - I personally think Aliona was lucky to get asked back but then you get dancers like Hayley and Jared who weren't so lucky - I think in Jared's case, it was right that he wasn't asked back because he was way out of his depth on SCD. I'm not sure about Iveta - I know she's lovely and given the right celeb it could be interesting to see what she does - but she didn't make much of an impact with me in what she did with Johnny and the routine she put together for Sid's cha cha - but it could have been unusal circumstances in which she was brought in. I've always been in a bit of a dilemma with Erin because even though I can't stand Anton I really like her - I know her latin is not perfect but I like watching her ballroom.

BIB I think the defending champion is always going to get asked back arent they?

Its up to them whether they accept or not

Camilla didnt accept because she wanted to end on a high but I think the BBC have a duty, well - not a duty as such but its kinda expected to have the regining champ back for a following series

Isnt it?

Or is this just my train of thinking

I meant after Aliona's first year in which imo she didn't really make an auspicious start with Rav - she was lucky to be asked back and then be given two contenders in a row.

The reason why I brought it up - is because I wonder if Karen is going to be asked back next year, since some FMs think she doesn't seem to have done a great job with Nicky - I'm not blaming Karen entirely because I don't know who is more at fault.

who knows many FM's think that Aliona doesnt do a great job but then she gets asked back so I honestly dont know

I personally wouldnt be disappointed if Karen wasnt asked to return, I dont think she is a great teacher and I do think that if Nicky was with a different pro he would be doing a lot better, just my opinion of course

Well Ola and Kristina didn't exactly set the series alight with their celebs, Flavia has a real contender in Louis, but I've hardly been blown away by them this series, last Saturday in particular.

Karen is doing fine by me!

I imagine that TPTB have more of an idea of why their partnership isn't doing wonderfully & that will play into whether they ask her back. I have to say I haven't been wowed by her choreography at all, but then again Nicky hasn't been able to do the basic stuff she's given him all that well, so I really don't know where the blame lies. On balance, I think I'd like her to be given one more chance next year, hopefully with someone who looks like being a contender, so we can get a real idea of her capabilities.

Ola, Flavia and Kristina are all past finalists and have been complimented by some of their past celebs for their teaching skills even when they've had less than able celebs and with respect teeswolf you don't really seem to be taking the whole picture into account - this series Ola's chances with Sid were somewhat hampered by her personal crisis of her mother becoming seriously ill and then Sid's poor attitude. Kristina was mismatched with Colin who was a lovely guy and could have been a decent dancer with the right height pro and perhaps gone half way, but he was over a foot taller than Kristina - so that partnership was destined not to go very far - given that fact I think she worked around the massive height difference as best she could and did ok to get to week 5 with him.

And you may not be wowed by what Flavia is doing with Louis but I am - most good celebs have had off weeks. I think she's gradually moulding him into a really good dancer and I'm glad he's with an experienced pro like Flavia, sorry but I suspect if Louis had been given to Karen his talents could have been wasted given her lack of experience! Karen has been given a celeb who many considered a contender at the start of the series and yet they've ended up in the bottom 2 at the half way point - something has gone wrong somewhere!




Yes I agree it would be interesting to see what she'd do with a different celeb - I get the feeling that sometimes Nicky doesn't make it easy for her. She needs someone she can really click with.

I love watching Ola and Kristina, they both went to soon for my liking.

I love watching Ola and Kristina too!

I'm also loving watching a new pro in Karen coming to terms with a new experience for her. And overall I think Nicky is steadily improving and have no reason to wonder how he would do with a different pro.

As I said before the fact that he ended up in the bottom 2 on Saturday might give an indication as to why some people aren't as impressed with their partnership as you are!

Anyone can end up bottom 2 as we saw with Kimberley and Pasha. If Nicky and Karen are bottom 2 again this week, then I will be concerned for them.

.

"...[Karen] would not want to argue with wardrobe".

Each partnership does a DRESS rehearsaL...presumably to see how the outfits work with their proposed dances. If Nicky shoes were not suitable for their jive (which she should have spotted), then why didn't she highlight this? She didn't need to argue - but simply highlight the unsuitability of Nicky's shoes.

No other pro would have taken this lying down. Sorry to say, but Karen is letting Nicky down all over thew place. This is partly through inexperience (I think) but also down to the fact that she is not a great teacher. Nicky would definitely have made great progress with Kristina, Ola, Flavia, Katya or Aliona.

Yes and that makes me doubt Kimberley's popularity - tbh I've not been overly impressed with her either, she seems more concerned with plugging her album and GA tour than Strictly - although she is a better dancer than Nicky.

I doubt if Nicky will be in the bottom 2 this week because he'll get a bounce back vote, but he was in the bottom 2 on Saturday imo because he did a terrible jive so it makes me doubt his partnership with Karen is working.

i think next week will be a shock bottom two of kimberly and nicky, and of those nicky will go (unless kimberly falls flat on her face).

Nicky will not be in the b2 this week because:

1) being a character-driven dance, he WILL pull of the Charleston

2) he'll noticeably up his game after last week.

For me, bottom two will be Dani & Victoria with Vic saying ta-ra!