The judges can put her top every week until the final and score her 40......I put money on it that the first time the public have a say it will be Lisa Snowdon all over again.

boo hoo

and since when did Denise get to be a professional dancer because if you are basing in having gone to stage school, Dani, being in a west end musical ,kimberley , having performed on a stage , Nicky, having been an actor Lisa and Colin , being very fit Victoria and Loius.

Get a grip and get real everyone has some sort of experience that is relevant to SCD and for Denise to be there is neither unfair or corrupt.

The hyperbole on here gets astounding, if you want to be so worked up about something how about campaigning about something really unfair and corrupt such as the fact that the people who caused this credti crunch , the bankers are still taking obscene amounts in profits for ensuring that the lowest paid in this country are worse of because of it.

Don't cry unfair and corrupt that someone you may not like and has SOME dance experience, is doing well on a programme learning to dance new dances, on a show with others who have SOME relevant experience.

Thought Dani And Vincent should have been awarded 10's as well as Denise and James

I thought Denise's dance was awesome tonight - not just her dancing which was first class, but the idea of having a Charleston from Egypt in 1920BC showed an imagination and daring which I don't remember ever seeing on this show. The concept and choreography was so good that I suspect James had a lot of help with it. It made me think of Hayley Tamaddon's Jai Ho in Dancing on Ice (and also Wilson, Keppel and Betty, but I don't suppose anyone else in this forum will remember them).

As for the perennial subject of Denise's previous dance experience, it seems to me that she has never in all her career had as much concentrated training and danced as well as she does now. And through it all her personality shines out. She is definitely my choice to win, and my second favourite person in all the series of the show.

And to round off a great night, Tess seemed to find some sparkle for once, and made a joke which I actually laughed at (de Nile).

Now this is just as daft as those who are complaining that Denise is cheating or shouldn't be allowed on the show.

I have no problem that she's there but surely it's obvious why others do? Of course there have been celebs who have come to SCD with a history of some dance experience or another but either their experience was more nebulous or it had been less trumpeted. (I'm not saying that makes it more forgiveable - well perhaps the "more nebulous" experience is - I'm just explaining why Denise gets the flak she gets.)

Never before has a celeb with such obvious (and by that I mean both famous and relevant) prior experience come to this show. Anyone who had heard of Denise Van Outen prior to Strictly would have probably heard of her stage experience and/or her stints on a reality singing/dancing based show as a judge.

There's absolutely no surprise with Denise's performances. I feel as I'd feel going to watch her in Chicago - I'd expect her to be excellent and she is. I'd never feel that about an actress that I'd never heard of in anything musical or a sportsperson no matter how good a performer or how fit they were. I don't expect I'll ever be truly wowed in an SCD way by her performances because I'll always feel that sense of predictability. Unfair? Maybe. But that's how I feel.

Fairly sure that pros don't choreograph their own Charleston as it's not a traditional ballroom or latin dance. Same is true for Argentine Tango.

I think you'll find that as Flavia and Vincent have been world champions of the Argentine Tango, they probably do choreograph their own dances.

I respect how you feel tabithakitten . I just get somewhat bored of all the unfair advantage stuff every year and the hyperbole based on judgements of personalities rather than what actually happens on a saturday night.
I don't think we can ever have a level playing field in the eyes of every viewer so for people to complain endlessly of unfair advantages because of this or that seems pointless to me.
May sound a bit harsh and blunt but its just an honest opinion.

Me too

I'd have no problem with what she has done before if such a big deal had not been made in the beginning to play it down.

By doing that they hung it up front and center, then told us it doesn't exist.

Normally I'd agree with you. But Denise's experience is so "in your face" if you like that it removes any surprise element that can make this show such a joy. It also doesn't help (for me at least) that she's dancing with my least favourite pro. I wondered if I might be persuaded to see things differently after the fairly indifferent waltz in week 1. Unfortunately this was followed by a fabulous jive in week 2 which confirmed every suspicion I previously had and any unpredictability sailed out of the window. (The cha cha was just the exception that proved the rule .)

I don't think Denise shouldn't be there and I don't understand any allegations of cheating or corruption. That's just daft. If she wins, that's fine. She is the best dancer there. She'll never get my vote because I expected her to be the best dancer there from the start and I shall continue to expect this. She'll never exceed my expectations, unfair as this might be.

I think you are right in what you are saying.

I was really p***ed off when Chris won as I felt he only did because he worked on the BBC and was more well known by the viewers while Ricky was on Hollyoaks that has a very small audience.
Not one of the best winners by far for me even with the so called brilliant charleston dance he did (which was fine for me but not as mind blowing as it was for others).

I for one am glad that there are celebrities of different levels as I would hate to have to see all of those that had to start completely from stratch.
Even the good ones have to show that they are improving week on week and putting in more difficulty to the point if they get to the final their performances should more or less be matching their professional partner's one.

I think if we are to pick on Denise and say she shouldn't be in it because of her previous experience in dance training then we need to go right back to series 2 and start on Jill Halfpenny. (Who was not a favourite of mine although I could see she was the best dancer of that series). Or even series 1 and Claire Sweeney who did Chicago as well before she did SCD.

It quite simple to have a level playing field and you do that by having celebrities who have not had dance instruction before. (Something that is always taught as a part of stageschool)

That way it's fair.

How is sport a direct advantage? As soon as Louis puts a sports move in he is slapped down for down that as well. Due to him not being the one they want to plug. DVO is the one with all the showbiz connections and the stageschool training.

No. Denise is not, 'the one' with stage school training. There's Denise, Dani, Lisa and Kimberly too.

Ok great, so now we know you dont like Denise you do like Loius and you dont read answers to your questions.

beyond that I am not sure you have moved the discussion forward at all, and when all is said and done it is a discussion board not a post your view and ignore everyone else's board.

All of the pros get charleston experts in to choreograph the routine. Same with salsa and AT. James mentioned it on ITT this week.

I actually thought that Denise outshone James tonight - her musicality and feel for the dance was beautiful, she was a complete Flapper to me, whereas James just didn't quite capture the same abandonment and commitment.

I do remember him saying that your right.

Ok this role of Roxie Hart is played by professional dancers is it?

Which of these should be considered professional dancers then?

Melanie Griffith

Bebe Neuwirth

Brooke Shields

Aoife Mulholland

Ashlee Simpson

Jill Halfpenny

Claire Sweeney

Denise Van Outen

Maria Friedman

Ruthie Henshall

Gwen Verdon

Michelle Williams

Renee Zellweger




Maggie

Indeed, Tom had experience, and won doing a show dance he had been interested in and wanted to do for years. Everyone plays to their strengths. Many have dancing pasts - whether its ballet at 5, or school dancing, or dramna school. Sometimes its inconsequential experience and people still get criticised for it, often its anything but ballroom dancing experience. Louis relies heavily on his gymnastics in his routines. Denise is probably the best dancer there and she's getting better. The question , if Louis doesn't have a massive gymnast's vote and no one else gets there on a big past fanbase voting , may be whether anyone gets to the final with Denise with a better kourney and growth story on the show. Lisa has stalled, Michael isn't going far, but Dani may just make it.and she's the better actor. And if she does make the final, she may just take it.

That would also be bizarre if Vincent won with Dani the actress and lost with Rachel who was one of the top 3 all time best dancers - particularly as the criticism that Rachel could dance as she had done some pop videos made no sense. It would be a decent ending on what we have seen so far though and would give the public a real choice.

Ruthie Henshall is a trained dancer - if I remember rightly she started wanting to be in ballet - she then studied at laine which produces a high percentage of the top stage dancers.. Aoife had done an Irish dance show before Chicago and been to a drama school - although she's trained primarily as a singer and actor. Jill had done some dancing way back in her childhood. On the other hand some of those people are untrained and several of those people couldn't do the Chicago routines much at all - which makes your point.

Saw Ali Bastian play Roxie last week . She can do the complete routine. Wow can she do the complete routine - including the walkover and her high kicks are higher than most people on a London stage have managed - top of the head in one case. Haven't seen Denise play Roxie but i don't think she can do it quite that well.

I don't really know.

I think the judges have to big her up, and overmark her as it's my feeling she doesn't have the audience vote and could find herself out without that support. I personally don't think she will be in the final if the GBP have anything to do with it.

I like her dancing, and she is really good, so she deserves the praise she gets.
The producers asked her to come on the show, surely she shouldn't be judged for that or her dancing be put down for it?

If you've watched the show from the beginning, you will have seen that there has never been a level playing field. It's not good viewing that way! You want the ones who seem good to fall for the good tv and the ones who are crap to come good and take over the show! That's what the show is about for the TV ratings.

Sport is so much a direct advantage because of fitness levels and the fact that the sports people are very aware of their bodies. That is a huge advantage.

I think he SHOULD be slapped down for putting a sports move in the dances! All of the tens dances - the 5 latin and 5 ballroom have distinct figures which are put together to make the dance - and if you deviate from that,you should be penalised.

Otherwise, they should make it a freestyle dance each week.

Well said.