Morning! Well... afternoon.

What would I have changed? Pretty much everything after reunion, ha.

Okay, that's not entirely true. First and foremost, there would NOT have been those ridiculously long blackholes. Those were ludicrous. I would not have had them appearing in episodes for 30 seconds to make up their contract obligations so often either. I know it happens to all characters, but Chryed seemed to have it all the time.

But I personally would never have had ANY baby storylines- Amira wouldn't have left pregnant, no surrogacy, no adoption, no Yasmin. I don't feel like Christian and Syed's relationship really suited having kids, and making Christian so desperate to have them almost ruined his character for me. I wouldn't have improved them- even a well-done baby storyline would have bored me to death. I kind of feel blessed that we didn't have to deal with a 'good' baby storyline for months on end. The only one that was salvageable for me was Amira's return, and that would only be because it would've focused more on Christian and Syed's past than the baby.

I would have LOVED more exploration of Syed's exile from the community. I'd really liked to have seen scenes at his original mosque after he got with Christian, where maybe he wasn't explicitly told to leave again, but was just made to feel like an outcast and uncomfortable and talked about, and being forced to move mosques where he has to lie in order to practise his religion in peace.

I think I would have also liked to have seen more issues with PDAs. I do think it was actually pretty organically done, so I don't actually have any complaints about it. But at the same time, I think it would've been more interesting to see them struggling with it- Christian as someone who is naturally incredibly affectionate trying not to take Syed's struggle with it as a sign he doesn't care about him as much. It would've been good to see, imo.

ABRC would have stayed, obviously. Perhaps I would have given Syed a more long-lasting (though not permanent) injury. As it was, it did seem a bit pointless, though it was so good I hardly cared.

I think it would have been super interesting had they given the scars storyline to Christian instead of Tamwar. Tamwar was already lacking in confidence and everything, so it didn't really make much difference (though it could've done if it had been done better, I guess). Someone like Christian, who spent most of his life using his looks and has a much younger, stunning boyfriend- I feel like it would've been a lot more interesting for him to have that sort of story.

Most of all, though, I just wish we'd seen them more involved with other characters. I wish we'd had more 'mini-storylines' like Salongate, which didn't really 'go' anywhere as such, but got them interacting with other people, exploring their relationship, setting up conflicts they could overcome and ultimately strengthening them. The period I most enjoyed them after reunion- March to mid October 2011, with a couple of exceptions- didn't really have a solid storyline as such, and I enjoyed it so much.

And it goes without saying that the exit storyline as it was would not have happened were it up to me, ha. Or would have happened very differently.

One thing I will say, I feel like the storylines were incredibly lacking. But, for the most part, I actually felt like Christian and Syed's relationship itself was well done. I was very rarely disappointed with how that was portrayed. I will always be grateful that their physical contact became far more natural and frequent (except when they're having problems, they're almost constantly touching). While obviously Johnny and Marc's chemistry and comfort with each other was massive in how convincing their relationship was, it's pretty obvious from the initial story that that's nothing in the face of a team that is reluctant to show affection between a same-sex couple. So I think that was very good. Also, considering it was a soap, the OOC lapses were very rare. The only times I can think of where I really had a problem with characterisation were that episode of surrogacy with the sample in the fridge (yak), a couple of lines from BF and Syed putting his wedding ring on. The only time I actually felt there was a lot of OOCness was during their exit storyline. Syed felt super off quite a bit of the time, and Christian wasn't great toward the end.

Oh this is brilliant! They weren't locked in MQ though, IIRC Perhaps they were meant to have been?

Love what he says about Marc & Johnny and their abilities, and how they brought history to scenes with their eyes, their fantastic delivery of lines, etc.

How INTERESTING about Reunion and the decision on editing the scenes. I agree with NBH and it would have flowed better, I remember us all watching live and nearly having a fit because of the 15 minute gap in the middle.

The more interviews I watch with writers, the more I realise that writing for a soap is so restrictive, I have great respect for what they have to deal with, and you have to be flexible and put your ego aside a great deal, it would seem. But, as he said in Part 1, at least you know you will see your work on screen, unlike other forms of writing where it could be years or never. Difficult creative profession to be in.

Thanks so much, totally fascinating!

Locked up?
I clearly missed something somewhere....??

I find it interesting as well that he said the reunion scene 'wrote itself' and pretty much came out first time as it was finally shot. Richard Davidson also said about the Syed/Amira wedding eps that they weren't difficult to write. When it feels right for the writer it seems to translate into great telly.
Contrast that with his reservations, now and at the time, about the change to the scene order in the reunion episode. I think it's an important lesson to all writers to stick to your guns and say if you think something feels wrong.

Great second part with NHB.
Weird that he thought they were locked in MQ when actually Christian chose to stay. And love how he called reunion 'the end' - as if nothing after happened! No mention of DTW - is this coming or was that topic avoided for fear of anger being directed at the wrong person?

Everything he said about Marc and Johnny was bang on, and also about not trying to force icons on people, but seeing what the audience go for.

The writers all seem so wise and realistic, I wish they got more say in things or had more power to change things. Ah well.

I think what he means is that they had to be 'kept' there somehow, to make them talk. I get the feeling that originally they were going to be locked in, but as he said, why wouldn't they just call Ian to come and let them out? I suspect, after much discussion, they came round to what we eventually saw - Syed needing Christian to stay, rather than Christian being forced to stay.

It actually makes it even cuter - because Christian could have not bothered. But instead he CHOOSES to stay, can't keep away, either to needle Syed, or because he just likes being around him, or because Syed needs him, or to help the business - or all of the above. But them being 'locked' together is much more powerful because it is emotional and character driven, rather than because of a broken phone and dodgy handle (aka Kamil's birth).

I'm SO glad it didn't happen like that. I love hearing about the background discussions, because it makes me grateful they actively chose better options. When I heard about one of the storylines BK had planned, literally EVERYTHING that happened seemed a hundred times better.

Anyway, the Kamil birth being like that made sense- there's no WAY Zainab would have willingly spent time with Christian. With Syed and Christian, they liked each other, they were attracted, they wanted to spend time together... I wouldn't have liked it quite as much if they'd been forced to interact rather than choosing to. It still would have been amazing, though, obviously. You can't top that dialogue.

Yes, Star, beautifully summarized.
His view on Marc & Johnny's chemistry, ability to bring history to the dialogue with their expressions, is just.. wow. So it wasn't just us who saw it after all...

And yes, I'm getting more respect for the writers. They have to deal with others messing their writing about... must be tough going...

Interesting thoughts MT *waves*. I think one of the problems was that because there are not enough gay couples on screen, they tried to cover everything possible with Chryed, but it was too haphazard and not enough depth. Baby, adoption, surrogacy & infidelity, + other drama but not done with care or depth, and left half finished or unexplored. But hey ho!


Loved that bit - too true, producers can't 'make' an iconic character happen.

I wish they had more power too.


BIB 1 - so interesting. I think when a story concept is strong, it must flow because it comes from a place of great truth.

BIB 2 - I think this shows how the ratings worry affects the Exec Producers decisions and not always for the best!


I love this! And it makes the lovely 'stay' line so powerful. I love how much time we've spent discussing MQ this weekend.

I'm off to get some lunch, but I thought I'd leave you with this.
It's some New Chryed Fic!
Although I'm posting it, I didn't write it. It was a birthday present from Lyra500, who has given me permission to share it with you all. Here it is!

Sorry double post, laptop playing up.

I just don't think any of the higher ups cared about Christian and Syed (or anyone but their own characters and Brannings) and just gave them a succession of Generic Gay Storylines.

BiB1: They can try to and ruin the show. I swear to God, Derek single-handedly ruined the show last year. Had they not focused so much on shoe-horning him into everything, every story they had could have been improved.

BiB2: Great point.

BIB 1 - they had such complex and interesting characters, I feel they just needed to use more of their past, (especially Christian's which I feel was unexplored, his youth, and also Syed's time in Leeds) and the storylines could have had SO much more depth. Talking about all this is making me want to write fic again though! I only ever wrote two, one of which I never published. Ok, I must shut up now. I did still love it. I am determined to wallow in shallowness for the rest of this afternoon if I can. Especially with DC viewing coming up.

BIB 2 - Yep, and it was painful. Totally forced on the viewer, awful. It must be hard to be under pressure to create new characters, but to make it that obvious that you want one to be accepted, it's wrong.

Right, going off to do the washing up, and make some food. Back for 2ish.

Hello! Happy Chryedness Chryedians!
Off to catch up....

Hi everyone,
My computer (or rather, my ISP) was giving me grief yesterday so I disappeared after the first 6 hours or so. All was fine in the evening, except there were so many more pages to read! Will have to do a thorough catchup later, but thanks to everyone for all the great pics, quizzes, etc. And thanks for all of the wonderful comments and insights. Again, I really wish I'd discovered this thread MUCH earlier than I did!!

What I wish they would have done---I've written about this on the thread quite awhile ago- I wish they'd focused more on the age difference. I don't believe that any of Chryed's family or friends (or even Chryed) ever mentioned the 12 years between them. (I guess that the age difference was the least of Zainab's objections, eh? LOL) There were hints of this, of course- C. and Jane lamenting her 40th bday; C asking Syed if he was getting old and showing him the wrinkles around his eyes; C. worried that Syed might wake up won day and want something more; C.'s behaviour at the Vic and the gay bar on his birthday. And of course there was DTW and his snarky remarks re: C being old enough to be Syed's dad, lol. Not quite sure what I'd have had the writers come up with, but perhaps some time could have been spent looking at Syed as a young, relatively inexperienced, and newly out gay man finding his way in the community, making more gay friends, etc. and how this conflicted with his almost 40 year old, insecure bf. I sometimes think it would have been interesting (or even better!) if Syed hadn't moved in with C right away, and got his own flat. But that would mean another EE set to pay for by TPTB, lol.
Would also have liked to see some indication in the flat that a Muslim lived there. Would one prayer mat have been a big deal? What about a few scenes where Syed comes home from morning prayers at the mosque to find C. waiting to have breakfast with him?

I like the ideas expressed about doing an adoption/surrogacy story in much more depth, too. It would have been much better than all the Roxy nonsense. But, I guess that serious discussions of gay adoption don't make for big ratings and duff duff moments!!

Hello!

So nice to see activity on here again and many familiar names. Still miss Chryed a year on! It's been great fun catching up on all your posts this morning.

I'll try and post a bit more this evening. Happy afternoon!

I seem to be Syed on Jenn's fab quiz! Though he looks better in towel
Great interview. Does he mean the 'Hit me with dahl' scene? Forgive me, been away so long, forgotten the proper Chryedian names for scenes.

Lovely to see you MH. Yep, he's talking about the Masala Queen fight episode which has all sorts of classic lines referencing a variety of food stuffs (dahl, chutney, okra)

Hello Mudsie and KBambi! xx



Hello, lovely to see you! x Yes that's the one, MQ Kitchen Fight (I always call it) but it's got various names.

Have a pic from DC week since that is meant to be coming up next.....Other Talents.....

Afternoon dear Chryedville - as many of you have said - feels weird to come back and have stuff to catch up on. It's familiar and it feels good... but a little weird.

Thanks everyone for posting stuff about what you would've wanted and about the NHB-interview (THANK YOU wonderful people for doing it!)

I have SO many thoughts about what I would've wanted that I can hardly contain them or put them out there in an understandable and coherent way. As per you, mt, have put quite a few of them in words, thank you for that.

I'm going to try to write down some of my thoughts (feel extremely free to ignore this - I will no doubt ramble on endlessly And I warn you, they might not be coherent at all...

SO: I would have liked:
- no huge blackholes and decent pacing of whatever the storylines would have been
- an actual arc and plan for what was going to happen from like August 2010 and onwards. I would SO have loved to have a much clearer sense of direction towards a goal for them, just like 2009-2010 had and that things happening actually happened for a reason and that there weren't so much "start-and-stop"
- it sort of goes without saying that whatever the actual storylines would have been I would have respected the complexities that's there in the foundations of it, I would have kept the muslim aspect,of course, and I would have wanted to give any storyline time and depth
- Agree with you mt about little storylines such as the Salon one building their characters, so I would've had stuff like that in there. Also, of course, agree about involving them much more with other characters. Syed would have had at least one good, proper friend outside of Tam and Christian
- Not sure about baby-storylines for them, but I know I wouldn't have had surrogacy happened and in the way it did, with the timing, pacing and then dropped. Adoption? Maybe at some point, further along in the future, IF they had used it to cover the actually interesting topics of gay parenting properly, prejudices from society in general and Syeds situation in his community in particular. Add the topic of a multireligious, age-different couple dealing with raising a child and it could possibly have been interesting. I'm a bit meh about it though, much as I adore Yasmin
- I might be shot or at least thrown out of Chryedville now, but I would most likely have had Amira return at some point, child or not. I would have used her return as part of the reconciliation-with-the-Masoods and as a way of really closing that part of the story, letting everyone involved know what actually happened during that year, about the 4 ONS, Zainabs part on NYD, suicide attempt, what Christan did/did not aso. aso. This part of the s/l I might possibly have ended in Chryeds wedding and Zainab and Masood doing the will-they-won't-they accept it -thing

As for Syed and Christian as characters and their development...
- Syed and his faith and his situation at Mosque would obviously have been so interesting to deal with, searching for a Mosque that will accept him... or maybe in the end having to lie about his sexuality to be able to practise, and what that in turn eventually might have done to him. I might also have dwelled a little bit more on the therapy/de-gaying stuff and how that might harm someone.
- eventually I would have wanted Syed to really face up to the images he's had of himself and what he needs to do to be OK. Not re. the sexuality this time, but leaning more towards business, work and how he should act and what he should do in that respect. I might have done something where he, business-wise is successful etc. (managing a gym with Christian or the salon with Tanya or the resturant with the family or whatever, really) but through circumstances that I haven't really thought out yet is pushed (by the ones he does the deals with, but also by Zainab and Masood, leading to them eventually dealing with the stuff from the past) towards too much risk-taking, towards stretching the moral limits of business, towards wheeling and dealing in a way that he used to when he came to Walford. I'd have him gradually slipping back into that and eventually becoming more and more uncomfortable with it, by the end of it realising that he needs to do it in his own way, be his own person when it comes to this too, act in a way that makes him feel good about himself and not in a way that others tells him he should. Basically I'd magnify the stuff leading up to CCC and throw in a bit of Syed, Zainab and Masood really, really dealing with what happened way-back-when and the dynamics that were in play there.

And then Christian... oh how I would have loved him having a real, proper s/l for himself...!
mt - I LOVE your suggestion of letting Christian deal with something like the scars that Tam got, being a person that has relied on his looks, being uncertain to a degree if he would be good enough without them.

To me Christian has always had that type of insecurity. He's used his looks and sex and the confirmation he's gotten from that for confidence and sense of worth, being to a degree uncertain if there is more to him. By the time he meets Syed he's become more aware that he needs to be seen as more than that to have true sense of self worth (hence why Syeds answer "You don't have to tell me that" is so important). This is something I would've wanted Christian to face really and properly. This might be extremely unpopular, but I might have done that not through a story of scarring but through some kind of eating disorder/obsession with exercising s/l. I would have built this story during the Syed and Amira marriage-period with Christian gradually using exercise and physical pain to deal with his inner pain. Not exactly self-harming per se, but using this more and more. (I would probably have combined this with occasions of Christian going out partying, going on the pull, purely looking for and using sex, and feeling more and more horrible about that, possibly meeting someone from his old partying days making it clear it's all about sex with no interest in Christian as anything more than that. ) As Chryed eventually reunite this gets a bit better, but it's there underneath the surface, the insecurity in Christian wheter he's good enough as himself, whether Syed's going to be interested in him as he gets older, if he has anything but sex and his looks to offer aso. This could be sparked again as Syed tries to reunite with the Masoods and Christian feels left out and inadequate and then it could be more of a "traditional" orthorexia (is it called that in English?) storyline. Eventually it would lead to them talking about this, possibly some therapy and showing that they keep working on it aso.

Hope you're having a fab time, all! xxx

ETA: OMG... the size of this.... Sorry everyone. Ignore!

Fascinating thoughts Clarkey! Really, REALLY like all those ideas! I could go for all of that.

Hello lovelies!
Thank you, I did wonder. Ah, the elusive, non existent Marty.
ETA Phwoarrr. Ah, I've even missed that picture on the wall.

Clarkey, that all sounds brilliant.

I would personally never have chosen Amira to come back. I would've wanted them to focus on the present/future rather than the past, and making Amira such a big part of everything was one of the things that disappointed me. But I would've accepted it if it had been like you describe.

And the eating disorder thing sounds fascinating. I would always have put that sort of storyline with Syed who is kind of a perfectionist and had super low self-esteem, but the way you describe it, with the emphasis Christian places on his looks/sexual appeal... it makes so much sense. It would've been so interesting.


Thank you

Lol, I remember how I was disappointed by that scene when I first watched it. I was convinced there was going to be a bed scene, and then I saw those red sheets... Ronnie and Jack. I was attempting to hold onto my bitterness over my disappointment with reunion and not be won over by cuteness. By the end of the episode, I was no longer bitter about anything.

Suffice to say, 'other talents' is now one of my all-time favourite scenes and probably the scene I rewatched the most /so deep. I'd rather have had that explicit sexiness than an awkward bed scene, which it may well have been at that point. It was only from DC Week onwards that physical affection became the norm.

Excellent post Clarkey
I would have liked the reconciliation with the Masoods to have been properly explored and given time (Chryed, time? Ha!) Would have much preferred to have them turn up quietly to the wedding as a surprise rather than the random Ludo nights and the acceptance that came out of one conversation.

Good morning, hi to everyone from yesterday, and hi to a few who weren't here yesterday...Mushroom Hair and KBambi ...Mudsie glad your internet is fixed so you could come back!

I caught up with today's posts and watched the NHB interview pt 2...really liked it...he was thoughtful and articulate...you all have commented on it already, but I'll just say it chokes me up to hear such praise for Johnny & Marc and their delivery/chemistry....

I wrote down what he said here as I loved it so much: "...they could look at each other and you saw their history in their eyes...referring to all past episodes..." Sigh!


Alex beautifully worded, thank you!

Thanks to everyone for posting pics/links etc...much appreciated!