I watched the show with some friends recently (with kids, so we all had to say who we liked and all had to 'do' a couple of votes ). They're casual viewers, totally uninvested - and they vote for fun, just to participate. I was horrified at their choices (and on my phone bill too!!)

The perfect experiment! Thanks for sharing. Made me giggle!

Widgy was never in the bottom 2 before she left, so the dance-off wouldn't have made any difference. Actually she may well have lasted longer, as the dance-off would have got rid of Gavin, whose bounce-back vote from being in the bottom 2 is what finally got rid of her. If he'd gone, we would have had to have relied on Patsy's vote to slay the beast, and she was pretty firmly wedged in the bottom at that point.

Of course the whole series would have been different with a dance-off anyway, but it's a point worth considering. The dance-off (generally) gets rid of bad dancers with a decent vote over mediocre/good dancers with no vote. If there's a rampaging out-of-control awful Komedy Kontestant, you might have to rely on the former to beat them.

Did I read somewhere that viewers have only 15mins to vote?
If so that is ridiculous imo to get a well balanced vote. Should be at least 1hr or at minimum 30min.

I bet they waste far too much time putting together the Sun show, which is 40mins but with all the retakes I'm sure takes well over an hour . They should film the sun show like a live show .

ere, mush, you calling me boring??

[quote=sofakat;62441442]There is a part of me that would like to see just how much the voting swings depending on the latest tittle tattle in the tabloids or weird VT on ITT.

I get the impression that the SCD fans can be very easily swung one way or another because so many invest such emotion into the whole show and their favourites.

A fairly large number of us don't vote at all.[/QUOTE]

I would think in the big scheme of things very few people bother to vote

When Matt Whats his Name won TXF a couple of years ago - while it was at it's peak - there were only 15.4m votes cast over the whole series and most of them were in the final

Once you take into account multi voting probably less than 10% of viewers actualy bother to vote.

They are however a noisy minority as they have a big impact on the results

Not with the return of the dance off.

Thanks for your views I always suspected as much but was aware that my indifference to voting might have meant my view was too subjective.

I have seen people post claims that they voted for something or somebody 23 times and my only response is, 'glad I don't pay your mobile/landline bill!'

Yes, it does make sense that there could be a last minute rash of calls to save a fave right at the very end!

I'd love to know when the judges have shown bias in favour of Victoria with their voting.

She was joint bottom of the leaderboard on Saturday, and second from bottom 2 weeks before.

She was given the lowest Cha Cha Cha, Rumba and Samba scores so far in the competition (her CCC got lower scores than even Sid's Ghost Busters CCC).

The only time she has been anywhere near the top (well deserved IMO) was with her White Wedding tango.

She's had a 3, 4 and 5 from Craig.

How that equates to favouritism in the judges' scoring I don't know. What do you want, minus marks ?

I don't believe for a minute they would choose Victoria over a better dancer in a dance-off as their scores show they have not shown any favouritism towards her. However Lisa is another matter.

Yes please!!

This thread is not about Victoria so I hope you will forgive me if I do not comment. You are clearly a huge fan, but I am not.

We live in hope!

And so does Brenda.

Indeedy. We haven't even got there but I predict the same howls of anguish and outrage will be on here in the final weeks if they keep the DO. I am thinking of a certain couple who may have an Austin done to them or even two couples this year... In answer to the thread, yes of course the voters have influence and rightly so. I sure as hell don't agree with the judges all the time, and they've got it wrong before. Very schadenfreudish when they tried to convince us Snowdonia was the greatest thing since the parting of the Red Sea, with 80/80 and then Bacofoil happened. Or ignoring certain people's faults like Zoe Ball's gapping and Emma Bunton's footwork while laying into others for less. Now that annoys me and others. Much of the public vote will be to right perceived wrongs and good for that.

Yeah, the public does have power. Darren and Lilia won from being third in the judges marks. Snowdon, Ball and Pamela went out third. But as well, I believe that the public have a great sense of justice and fair play and I well remember a letter in the national press after Sergeantgate which angrily said we'd have stopped voting for him at the quarter final and supported the others. Now that I believe, I am sure he'd have not got any further but the judges tried to manipulate and lecture the public on their choices far too much that series and it really rankled. It has been proven without a dance off that the public choose good winners that they like the best and there was no good reason to bring it back IMO.

I still think the dance off was brought back to give the show the contraversy the dance off was supposed to stop

Maybe instead of points from ten, we should have a tariff depending on what should be in the dance, and points deducted when they are not there. eg a Paso could have a tariff of 60, with certain required elements, and have points deducted for missing or poorly performed elements.

Into the last 8 this year, and all of those left could have a case for being bottom 2 (for one reason or another). Its going to be interesting.

Ive said on another thread that there's been some very dodging scoring from the judges. For example Lisa. She might well be performing her dances well - but the technique in pretty much all of them has been terrible (and some places worse). Now is the time for the judges to start judging fairly - and not ignoring technical errors that say Lisa and Kimberley make - whilst at the same time, marking down others Louis and even Nicky for making much the same error. How any of the judges could have scored Lisa's Samba technique as an 8 astounds me, when some of them scored Louis' technique which was better lower.

The dance off to me is required for making sure that the dross is eliminated first and we are at this point now. Personally I can see the only way that Lisa is going to be voted off is for her to be plonked into the dance off with Denise which will hopefully make the judges see reason. Some of the judges seem to have an agenda where people like Louis is concerned - I am no longer confident that the judges would vote to keep him in a dance off, as its obvious they want a girl winner this year. They've ignored some of Denise's shoddy technique as well as Kimberley can't seem to do anything wrong although she is regularly Limp and Lacklustre (to name 2 of Craig's favourite adjectives).

I think the public has a lot of power (which the judges absolutely hate) and this coming weekend might be a prime example. Id say that currently Victoria and Louis seem to have a high share of the public vote (both had to score pretty highly this past weekend to escape the dance off and if Nicky gets the bottom 2 bounce, with the Olympians seemingly pretty popular then it could be any 2 of the other 5 in the dance off.

From now on, its going to be more of the Fans vs the Judges than ever.

I know people vote for different celebs for very different reasons and thats why its an entertainment show not Come Dancing. But in the end usually in a non DO series, the better dancers reach the end. This year, I have no idea whether the likes of Louis and Dani will get there because the judges seem to be blind of Lisa's, Michael's and Victoria's faults - even if their scores actually reflect this.

If the judges where truthful and didnt judge by different standards and comparisons then I think the fans would vote more logically.

Also think that its very true that there are far fewer people who vote than the BBC want to let on.

Exactly. It does change the whys and wherefores of peoples votes, as some vote negatively to confound the judges more than positively because they were won over by someone's performance.

You mentioned Victoria (and Lisa) in your first sentence in saying that the judges have bias and it smacks of manipulation and therefore the public vote may not count. I am just replying to the point that you yourself made.

I am questioning your theory that the judges have bias and the only way to do that is to give examples of their non-bias. If you don't want to comment on your own theory that's fine and I'll leave this discussion.

I don't see any evidence of sustained bias in the judges voting - people often accuse the jusges of being biased when they downmark their favourites. I'm loving the return of the dance off - makes the recorded show much more fun to watch.

Absolutely: gives Claudia a chance to talk to the bottom two couples just before the Dance Off.

If we'd had the Dance Off in some of the series where it wasn't there, the likes of Ray Fearon and DJ Spoony might have been saved.

Based on what? The only person we know is popular with the judges and unpopular with the public is Kimberley. And that's off one whole week's worth of evidence, and they don't seem that bothered about her, really. This was the week when someone "good" who's been in the Bottom 2 traditionally gets overmarked up the wazoo to save them, and where did they leave her? 4th out of 7 places - ripe for another SHOCK BOTTOM 2.

I think Louis fans are being FAR too paranoid about Lisa based on her having one good week (mostly because of the theme) that she possibly didn't warrant. Lest we forget that Len has the casting vote, and he doesn't rate her at all (overall he's given her only one more mark than Michael or Victoria, with all their crappy forgotten arhythmic dances). He'd save Louis, and so would Darcey, any week, and that would be it. The judges would also definitely save Denise over her, and almost certainly Dani (again, Len has the casting vote and he ADORES her) over her. The only one of the front-runners I could see them letting go over her would be Kimberley, actually.

If there is any voter sway by the judges it may possibly (a huge speculation on my part though) be down to what they say more than the leader board positions.

Those who are only popular with a solid fan base being in danger when performances are criticised harshly or blandly, as the floating votes go elsewhere. If the comments are not as negative or critical as the subsequent scores seem to indicate the vote stays up due to the positive vibe of the judges comments.

Just a hunch and the way one or two things were said as asides on Saturday night.

Im not at all sure they wouldnt save Lisa over Louis at all... (I think Darcy would save Louis but the other 3 Im really not so sure.... in the all important end plan of getting Denise the win....).

You can bet that if Louis ends up in the bottom 2 over the next 2 or 3 weeks, that if he was saved, he wouldnt even get a sniff of the bottom 2 again... Craig and Len (and Bruno to a cerain extent) seem to think the sun shines out of Denise's **se so might see a chance of getting rid of Louis unfairly in a DO to be a way of guarantteeing a Denise final win... **just saying..

I agree they don't seem so bothered about Kimberley but they are still ignoring some glaring faults....

Does the plan to have Denise win at all costs include having judges repeatedly refer to her as a "pro", inviting guests onto "It Takes Two" who make sarcy comments about how she's got nothing to worry about because of all her past experience, and having BBC employees highlight her past dance experience from the second her name is announced as part of the cast?

Bit of a shit plan isn't it?

Does it also include how it's apparently utterly forbidden for the judges to point out that Louis dances everything with a face like a smacked arse, or the producers apparent willingness to go along with Vincent & Flavia's transparently vote-grubbing ploy of an "Argentine Tango" face-off for the final, when they seem to be micromanaging what dances other people do and when down to the last detail?

Perhaps they are working on the double, double bluff.