ITV's main Christmas trailer makes their Christmas programming look a lot better than it probably is. I particularly like the bit where Jonathan Ross says "Santa is giving you what you want this Christmas". Well, he is isn't giving you what you want, Jonathan, cos ITV have stuck your Christmas special on against the Strictly Final results show.

I had assumed they kept doing them because they relatively cheap. Of course I'd also been working under the assumption that since they're essentially extended adverts for the artists that they were produced in conjunction with record labels and/or management companies. In general though I think British television has perhaps moved on from these kind of shows.


She's currently recording her album apparently. I would assume that its release will be timed with the launch of series two of The Voice. Its worth pointing out that whilst her 'winners single' performed dismally in the charts it also wasn't a winners single in the same vein as The X Factor singles are. Certainly it should have performed better but it was never set up to be the all conquering hit that The X Factor winners single is. That's perhaps a mistake on the shows part...


ABC is talking about keeping the Fall cycle and ditching the Spring cycle (provisionally replaced with Celebrity Diving) so it wouldn't make the situation any easier for the BBC. Having said that I suspect there's likely to be a shake-up of the Dancing with the Stars judging panel in the near future. Something has to change and that's really the only other option ABC have at this point.


Undoubtedly The Voice is going to have to work hard in series two. I think they've probably shot themselves in the foot by bringing the judging panel back as is. One or two new judges would have given them an obvious shake-up at the start of the run before they launch into format changes after the auditions. For what its worth I think the format tweaks in the US have worked pretty well and the BBC plan seems to be to copy that.


I've always wondered why (given its sustained success in the US) neither the BBC nor ITV have really gotten behind the idea of a SNL like format. I actually think that could be quite a strong companion for the likes of Britain's Got Talent and The X Factor on ITV. It would also potentially give them the chance to do what the US version has done and groom comedy writers and comedy actors that they can go onto use elsewhere.

I'm still convinced that it was commissioned for CBBC and the budget just got so wildly out of hand that they felt compelled to air it on BBC1.

Although in fairness to Don't Scare The Hare you can see what the BBC were going for with it. They wanted something that had a broad family appeal that kids would like and that parents wouldn't detest. They missed by a massive margin but the general intent of the show is probably what they should be doing with that Saturday teatime slot.

Or, just keep A Question of Sport there!

It was probably to BBC One what Celebrity Wrestling was to ITV1 in the noughties, a complete disaster that was moved around the schedules and died unnoticed. I think even Big Top did better than this.
While people go on about ITV's flops, and quite rightly in some cases, BBC One, Channel 4 and Channel 5 can be just as bad at times. At least, though, Channel 5 saw the error of their ways and gave Amy Childs and Tamara Ecclestone their marching orders and whoever decided Shipwrecked should deserve another chance has probably been sacked.

You mean Saturday Night Live? As in Channel 4 in the 1980s and ITV in 1996. The 1996 series flopped IIRC. According to Wikipedia ITV also did a one-off in 2007 which presumably also didn't do too good if it went no further than one episode.

Before The X Factor and Dancing On Ice stumbled ITV had four huge LE hits along with BGT and I'm A Celebrity. That's a bit unfair as TXF and DOI are still doing decent business. BBC1 only has Strictly. That's it. Their LE department is so awful that Danny Cohen felt the need to buy The Voice as in-house wasn't delivering. There were rumblings in the corridors of power a few years ago about how bad the BBC LE department was at delivering hits.If The Voice stumbles again BBC1 will just have one big hit again in Strictly. That is simply not good enough.

Don't Scare The Hare is one of the lowest points in British television. The BBC LE department under Bill Cotton was the envy of UK television, now it's a joke.

The X Factor - Final Results Overnight Ratings inc +1
2004 - 8.1m, peak: 9.9m
2005 - SAT 21:10 to 22:10 - 9.3m (36%), peak for evening: 11.8m (48%) at 19:55
2006 - SAT 21:30 to 22:30 - 10.37m (43.96%), peak: 12.57m (56.25%) at 22:20
2007 - SAT 21:35 to 22:45 - 11.36m (49.10%), peak: 12.74m (55.05%) at 22:30
2008 - SAT 21:45 to 22:50 - 13.46m (54.41%), peak: 14.59m (61.37%) at 22:40
2009 - SUN 19:30 to 21:25 - 15.62m (53.20%), peak: 19.11m (61.92%) at 21:15
2010 - SUN 19:30 to 21:30 - 17.16m (54.92%), peak: 19.45m (60.47%) at 21:20
2011 - SUN 19:30 to 21:30 - 13.10m (45.05%), peak: 15.54m (50.35%) at 21:20
2012 - ???

2006 through to 2011 are tape-checked and five-minute peaks. 2004 and 2005 sourced from Media Guardian.

I think the peak should be somewhere within 2006 and 2007, possibly scraping into 13 million. The average should be in the same year region as well, although that is more difficult to predict in my view as the Sunday results show have not done as well this year.

Auntie is pretty strong in other areas but LE is a joke. SCD is good and deserves it's big ratings, but bear in mind Brucie is over 80 now and could anyone else do as well as this veteran of BBC One's Saturday glory days. They really need to look to game shows and quizzes to get the audience back.

Wasn't there about half a dozen BBC executives who put their name to the commission? Collective irresponsibility.

Quite frankly, I find it deeply worrying that the BBC would employ anyone in a position of responsibility who was incapable of spotting that this was the biggest load of shit ever. I stand by my belief that this was intended to be a children's programme until CBBC turned round and declared "Excuse me. We've got standards".

Prediction for me for TXF is 10.6m, peak of 12.3m.

BBC LE had a bit of success with the Andre Lloyd Webber musical shows. with Maria being their biggest but apart from that they haven't delivered hits. And even those musical shows had diminishing returns with each series.

Strictly would be fine with Graham Norton as host. Bruce of the 1970s was peerless. Now, he isn't. But BBC1 really do need some more high rating studio shows.

Die Hards but they will hate it With a Vengeance.

A Question of Sport, much like Pointless, has no place in the Saturday line-up. That's not to say that either show is bad because I don't think they are. I do however struggle to believe that they have the kind of wide ranging appeal to 'the whole family' that the BBC should probably be shooting for in those slots.


From memory Channel 4's original stab at the format with Saturday Live wasn't too bad and had a pretty impressive cast involved. Didn't they do a horrible reformat that shifted it to Friday and made Ben Elton the permanent host? I'm pretty sure the ITV revivals were of the terrible reformat which defies all logic since it didn't work for Channel 4 in the first place. Part of the magic of Saturday Night Live is the weekly guest host so sticking with a permanent host just doesn't work. I think just a straight up British version of Saturday Night Live is seriously something ITV or even the BBC should look into doing. Its a strong concept that has a huge amount of potential upside if handled right. The roll cal of comedy writers and stars that have come out of SNL in the US is huge and incredibly impressive. Even just a tiny percentage of that success could do wonders for comedy development in the UK.

It is a blackspot for the BBC when you think in the past they had massive hits like Noel's House Party. I do hope The Voice remains as a success for them.

That'll be because almost all the stuff in the trailer airs outside of the time recent discussions here describe as Christmas.

i.e most of it airs before Christmas and on Christmas/Boxing Day, rather than the 27th onwards.

Possibly, I do think a big name new coach might have helped relaunch it but I do think The Voice was very unlucky with very early scheduling in the height of summer so possibly has a larger audience than people think.
And NBC kept the same panel and refreshed the format following Season 2's decline and it worked so hopefully the BBC can capture this as even in the old flawed format it was ten times better than this years X Factor

Much, much easier said than done regardless of how competent development might be.

I'm also going to say that I don't think the problem is poor light entertainment development the problem is poor talent development. Its much easier to develop big studio shows in the 70's, 80's and even the 90's because you were developing shows for someone. Now if you're working in the BBC light entertainment department or the ITV department who are you developing shows for? There aren't these big personalities and these big hosts to build formats around or who can make a dire format work. It speaks volumes that the BBC is looking at the very real possibility that they can't replace an 84 year old man on their biggest entertainment show. That is a staggering situation for any broadcaster to be in let alone the BBC.

Additionally lets say you have a big new studio show format who are you going to approach to host it? What safe pair of hands exists in British television right now that you'd instinctively say that's who should be fronting this new format? That their presence will make viewers believe this is something they should watch?

The lack of people to develop for or hosts that broadcasters have faith in has led to the situation were people are developing stupid gimmicks (like robotic hares) to sell shows because they have nothing else to hang their hat on.

I agree with all you have said. Part of the problem though is that are too few genuine entertainers who are able to deliver the quality that was present years ago. There are manufactured presenters all cloned from presenter school, but honestly there are no Dick Emery's, no Morecambe and Wise's, no Les Dawsons today. Until genuine talent is recognised and nurtured it will be Nick "dull as dishwater" Knowles, John "Shouty" Barrowman and Graham Norton ad finitum.

When Noel's House Party ended in 1999 it took them 5 years to find another hit with Strictly. Jim Davidson's Generation Game was finished off by the start of Pop Idol. The BBC LE department just can't come up with hits the way ITV could. Very poor.

The US panel worked though. I'm not convinced anyone would say the same about the panel for The Voice UK.

Olly Murs and Caroline Flack have quite good chemistry as a presenting duo. Itv should give them a gig on the main channel.

Itv have been giving quite a few of XFactor and Towie contestants presenting gigs like Stacey Solomon, Mark Wright, Amy Chiles, Ryland, Johny Robnson. Ollys probably the best of them.

UK TV networks though don't seem that interested in "grooming" talent anymore - they sign a couple of established acts and that's about it. The same few faces generally appear and when the odd opening to new talent becomes available they're often thrown straight into the limelight thanks to a lucky break rather than having the chance to develop a fan base in a lower profile slot.

That's depressingly true. Although I'm hopeful that the revamped mission statement of BBC3 (and I think 4) to serve in part as feeder stations for BBC1 and 2 might change that a little. And Radio 1 seems to be making a more concerted effort to act as development for potential young presenters.

Did they get a winner on txf then or did they give up due to lack of interest?

Usually the Ratings Thread would be awash with txf final comment on txt final night, but instead you're discussing a possible Gen Game revival.

Did anyone see any of the Rod Stewart album promo show? I saw snippets and it looked quite possibly one of the worst programmes I have seen in years, especially the excruciating bits with Holly in between the songs.

Hope it tanks!