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Old 20-11-2012, 23:06
mazzy50
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Human rights, eh? Poor lamb.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/cele...ce-scheme.html

Chris Moyles, the BBC presenter, asked a court to conceal his membership of an aggressive tax-avoidance scheme because exposing him would "infringe" his human rights and damage his career, it has been reported.
So - what do you reckon? Do you think his tax affairs should be private?
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Old 21-11-2012, 00:41
Becky Sharpe
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11th November:
Revealed: DJ Chris Moyles invested in same tax avoidance fund as Jimmy Carr
Bear in mind, though, that the poor soul has experienced some hardship . Whether we like Moyles/JC or not, Her Majesty's Press is still -relatively speaking- holding fire on the tax avoiding/evading big boys...
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Old 21-11-2012, 00:43
RickWhite
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I think it is in the public interest. After all we are all being asked to pay more
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Old 21-11-2012, 07:48
treme
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So - what do you reckon? Do you think his tax affairs should be private?
Yes. Everybody's tax affairs should be private, unless they are convicted of tax evasion.
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Old 21-11-2012, 07:59
dorahall
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Don't these people have accountants that sort their tax out for them? I'm pretty sure Moyles hasn't purposely avoided tax, it's something his accountant would have suggested. Or maybe I'm being ridiculously naive. I've never earned enough to need an accountant to sort out my tax for me. Payroll does that at work and when they get it wrong I get a rebate or a bill.
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Old 21-11-2012, 08:03
theonlyweeman
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I don't think this kind of name calling is fair. I don't think anyone here can honestly say they report 100% of their income, and wouldn't pay less tax if they knew how...
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Old 21-11-2012, 08:10
Tassium
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I don't think this kind of name calling is fair. I don't think anyone here can honestly say they report 100% of their income, and wouldn't pay less tax if they knew how...
This is a very common defence to immorality, to accuse everybody else of being just as immoral.
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Old 21-11-2012, 08:15
theonlyweeman
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This is a very common defence to immorality, to accuse everybody else of being just as immoral.
I find it odd that you think celebrities should be forced to do something you probably wouldn't. Just seems hypocritical to me...

I'm not saying his actions were right, but he should face whatever legal charges come up and move on. No need for all this media frenzy bullshit, it's really not that big a deal especially since half these papers are probably doing it themselves...
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Old 21-11-2012, 08:46
Satnavvy
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If he is so justified in his actions, why take legal action to cover up his involvement? He is clearly embarrassed or ashamed?

It's the "one rule for them, one rule for us" attitude that annoys me. Most of us get tax deducted at source and have no control whatsoever over our tax affairs.

It's just one more thing on the list of things that I find displeasing about Moyles.
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Old 21-11-2012, 08:51
Inspiration
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I don't think this kind of name calling is fair. I don't think anyone here can honestly say they report 100% of their income, and wouldn't pay less tax if they knew how...
Err I can! I've paid tax on every penny i've earned.
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Old 21-11-2012, 09:28
The Prumeister
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Err I can! I've paid tax on every penny i've earned.


Me too.

Tax evasion costs this country's ailing economy billions of pounds per year more than benefit fraud - but of course, The Daily Mail and their ilk continute to berate the poor and conveniently 'forget' about those earning big bucks like Moyles not paying their tax.

Moyles is an oaf and I would despise him if he singlehandedly initiated the peace process in the middle east. Couldn't have happened to a nicer bloke that his tax avoidance has come out into the open. I hope he has to pay back every penny. Loathesome man.
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Old 21-11-2012, 09:37
Goldbear86
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I don't think this kind of name calling is fair. I don't think anyone here can honestly say they report 100% of their income, and wouldn't pay less tax if they knew how...
I have.

We all have to pay tax. He is not exempt and I really dislike the fact he tried to get an injunction. I'm glad the judge saw sense.
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Old 21-11-2012, 09:38
twingle
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Me too.

Tax evasion costs this country's ailing economy billions of pounds per year more than benefit fraud - but of course, The Daily Mail and their ilk continute to berate the poor and conveniently 'forget' about those earning big bucks like Moyles not paying their tax.

Moyles is an oaf and I would despise him if he singlehandedly initiated the peace process in the middle east. Couldn't have happened to a nicer bloke that his tax avoidance has come out into the open. I hope he has to pay back every penny. Loathesome man.
But is it tax evasion if it is legal due to a loop hole in tax law?. I blame the government. They know about this and should have closed the door years ago!
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Old 21-11-2012, 09:39
The Prumeister
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But is it tax evasion if it is legal due to a loop hole in tax law?. I blame the government. They know about this and should have closed the door years ago!


Well, of course the government are culpable; but equally, so are the people that legally take advantage IMHO.
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Old 21-11-2012, 09:54
Jerrica09
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This is a very common defence to immorality, to accuse everybody else of being just as immoral.
Well it is legal. I have rich friends who have Jersey bank accounts and accountants who maximise their earnings whichever way, that's what they're paid to do.

To be honest if I was ever in a position where I could employ someone to take care of my money I would go for any and every tax avoidance thing going. If I could do it now I would!

I don't think we should criticise people who do this, because why wouldn't they? I think the only ones up for criticism are the ones who publicly denounce the practise while being involved themselves, I don't know if Moyles falls into that camp or not.

But the government should be pressured to start closing loopholes and making these schemes illegal, apparently the amount the country loses in tax avoidance makes benefit fraud look like a drop in the ocean (but the politicians won't do anything to stop tax avoidance because they and their friends probably benefit heavily from it. They'd prefer to focus on the poor!)
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Old 21-11-2012, 09:59
The Prumeister
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[quote=Jerrica09;62479932]Well it is legal. I have rich friends who have Jersey bank accounts and accountants who maximise their earnings whichever way, that's what they're paid to do.

To be honest if I was ever in a position where I could employ someone to take care of my money I would go for any and every tax avoidance thing going. If I could do it now I would!

I don't think we should criticise people who do this, because why wouldn't they? I think the only ones up for criticism are the ones who publicly denounce the practise while being involved themselves, I don't know if Moyles falls into that camp or not.

But the government should be pressured to start closing loopholes and making these schemes illegal, apparently the amount the country loses in tax avoidance makes benefit fraud look like a drop in the ocean (but the politicians won't do anything to stop tax avoidance because they and their friends probably benefit heavily from it. They'd prefer to focus on the poor!)[/QUOTE]



Amen to that.

The main reason Moyles is being vilified is that he tried to cover it up with a superinjunction and bleated about his 'human rights'. Also, he does seem to be mainly very disliked by a vast majority of people so it was never going to be something that people showed any sympathy for.
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Old 21-11-2012, 10:00
flagpole
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So - what do you reckon? Do you think his tax affairs should be private?
Yes. Everybody's tax affairs should be private, unless they are convicted of tax evasion.
Everyone's tax affairs are private. if they pay personal tax like most of us do.

if they set themselves up as a limited company one of the things you know happens when you do this is that your accounts become a matter of public record, like all company accounts.

also exposing that he was part of this scheme, is not exposing his income, which is what we generally refer to when we talk about the confidentiality of tax affairs. there is no precedence for any of this information being kept private.
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Old 21-11-2012, 10:01
flagpole
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Well it is legal. I have rich friends who have Jersey bank accounts and accountants who maximise their earnings whichever way, that's what they're paid to do.

To be honest if I was ever in a position where I could employ someone to take care of my money I would go for any and every tax avoidance thing going. If I could do it now I would!

I don't think we should criticise people who do this, because why wouldn't they? I think the only ones up for criticism are the ones who publicly denounce the practise while being involved themselves, I don't know if Moyles falls into that camp or not.

But the government should be pressured to start closing loopholes and making these schemes illegal, apparently the amount the country loses in tax avoidance makes benefit fraud look like a drop in the ocean (but the politicians won't do anything to stop tax avoidance because they and their friends probably benefit heavily from it. They'd prefer to focus on the poor!)
proof for that?
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Old 21-11-2012, 10:02
Saltydog1955
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Whilst I despise anyone who can afford to pay who tries to avoid tax, even if they're doing it legally, remember all these companies - Amazon, Vodafone, Starbucks etc - who are avoiding millions of 's in corporation tax in the UK.
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Old 21-11-2012, 10:20
DanLeMan
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I do find it strange that the media is using the 'morally wrong' angle to attack any person or company that is discovered to be paying very little tax. I bet 99% of us would do the same if we were earning large sums and were advised by accountants that we could legally keep a greater % of it by a tax avoidance scheme. The government simply needs to change the tax laws to close down these schemes.
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Old 21-11-2012, 10:22
Tassium
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It has to be said that many people (not all) would do the same thing.

This is how human beings are. But for a society to function we create law that attempts to raise us up, to save us from our selves.

But there is only no law against tax avoidance because it's impossible to create one. This is something most people don't understand.

If it were possible to create a law one would certainly exist.
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Old 21-11-2012, 10:26
treme
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If he is so justified in his actions, why take legal action to cover up his involvement? He is clearly embarrassed or ashamed?

It's the "one rule for them, one rule for us" attitude that annoys me. Most of us get tax deducted at source and have no control whatsoever over our tax affairs.

It's just one more thing on the list of things that I find displeasing about Moyles.
He is likely trying to cover up because of this obsession with trying to villify anybody who uses legal means to reduce their liability. In a career which is dependent on being popular, it's no wonder he has tried to keep it under his hat.

The fact that so many people are tied into PAYE methods of taxation should not preclude anybody who isn't from using legal means to avoid tax, and this stigmatisation really ought to stop.
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Old 21-11-2012, 10:29
inquirer64
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Well it is legal. I have rich friends who have Jersey bank accounts and accountants who maximise their earnings whichever way, that's what they're paid to do.

To be honest if I was ever in a position where I could employ someone to take care of my money I would go for any and every tax avoidance thing going. If I could do it now I would!

I don't think we should criticise people who do this, because why wouldn't they? I think the only ones up for criticism are the ones who publicly denounce the practise while being involved themselves, I don't know if Moyles falls into that camp or not.

But the government should be pressured to start closing loopholes and making these schemes illegal, apparently the amount the country loses in tax avoidance makes benefit fraud look like a drop in the ocean (but the politicians won't do anything to stop tax avoidance because they and their friends probably benefit heavily from it. They'd prefer to focus on the poor!)
If the government started closing tax loopholes the argument goes that big business and wealthy individuals would move out of this country.

So tax avoidance/evasion needs an international or even global solution.

One day this small world will wake up to the fact that 90% of inhabitants suffer at the expense of the rest living in isolated splendour.

However, if more tax was collected in this country would it get spent on public services? Or would our MPs reward themselves by increasing expenditure on their pay, perks, expenses, and working environment?
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Old 21-11-2012, 10:39
soundstory
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If the government started closing tax loopholes the argument goes that big business and wealthy individuals would move out of this country.
There is no evidence to suggest that would be the case.

London is the main financial hub, it's unlikely
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Old 21-11-2012, 10:51
WellHiddenMark
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There is no evidence to suggest that would be the case.

London is the main financial hub, it's unlikely
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20424492
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