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Old 22-11-2012, 05:54
daveyboy7472
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This episode ranks alongside Fires Of Pompeii as one of my least favourite episodes from this Series.

I find the story itself rather lacklustre but it is saved from total disaster by the Gorgeous Georgia Moffett as Jenny. Aside from spookily looking like her old man at times, I liked the combination of beauty, humour and action girl who shared her Dad's adventurous spirit. Not sure if the running theme was an in-joke to her Dad's Doctor, but I'm glad she lived to pursue her dream. Would love to see her back, though it's unlikely.

Donna is back on form in this and unlike the previous story she isn't sidelined by Martha's presence. Love her teasing of The Doctor's fatherly attributes. Plus her working out of the dates etc was good as well.

As for Martha, never saw the point of her in this. She doesn't really do that much and seems like filler. I think the episode could have done without her as the focus was mainly on Jenny and the main plot. She was just a sideshow really.

Did like the further clarification The Doctor is a Dad already, not that it is a surprise because of Susan in 1963 as his Grand-Daughter.

Did like the idea of the war lasting a week but aside from that, wasn't overly keen on this episode. Thankfully it was the last naff episode of the Series IMO.

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Old 22-11-2012, 10:28
sovietusername
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Not so keen on this one either. An ok story, but very mediocre compared to some other NuWho stories, as well as some other stories in series 4. It's a fairly decent idea, and I like all the excahges between the Doctor, Donna and Jenny, love the exchange where the Doctor talks about the Time Lords, in this forst clip then first few seconds of the next clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kURmaTfM_A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...xbqFUOKQA&NR=1

The idea of the war only ;lasting a week is a neat one, even if it is a little unrealistic (wouldnt they have some sort of record or news?) I like Jenny though I wouldnt want to see her again, she was only ever really created for this episode. Besides, would she even recognise ger dad now?! But she's really likeable and you do feel sorry for her in these scenes where the Doctor says she's an echo etc. She's hot to (Tennant obviously has v. good taste)! But then, all the acting in this is phenomenal, especially from the Tennant. Martha's inclusion in this story is a bit pointless here. And that scene where the nice Hath dies, very funny! Also, I do think they are a bit silly. I mean, fish breathing water through things, looks like a nice idea on paper, but really it's a bit silly isnt it? How come they dont just stay in the oceans from whereever they came from, you wouldnt expect fishes to ever become a space faring species.

The best stuff in this is all the Doctor's no guns, no war stuff. It's all very well done, and I like the "I never would," even if I dont really believe as we know he has killed in the past.

Overall, an enjoyable episode, but there's just something about I dont really like, dont know what
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Old 22-11-2012, 11:43
chuffnobbler
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The Doctor's Daughter. Utter rubbish.

Georgia Moffett is perfectly good at jiggling, I spose.

It was around this point that I was no longer concerned about watching DW live, or the same day as broadcast. I'd happily go out to the boozer for an evening and bother with watching DW before going to bed.

This story was clearly a title first and a story later: I find that approach very cynical, and don't have any time for it. (Similarly, Phantom Menace was clearly a range of toys first and a script second).


Question:
Why didn't they clone Donna and Martha too, if more people were needed?
Answer:
Because "The Tardis Crew's Offspring" is a bit of a clunky title.


Terribly, terribly lazy all round.
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Old 22-11-2012, 13:40
johnnysaucepn
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But then, all the acting in this is phenomenal, especially from the Tennant. Martha's inclusion in this story is a bit pointless here.
I can see why they have A.N.Other character here, with the two plot threads running. The Doctor confronting an echo of his past requires a companion's eyes, and comparing the two sides in the stupidity of the war requires one other person. Still feels shoehorned in, though. But nothing more shoehorned than the death of that Hath, what an unconvincing way to go!

The rest of the episode I really liked - the Doctor being cruel and having his battle-scars re-opened; the Doctor having to examine how exactly his pacifism differs from war, Donna getting the chance to be Mumsy and again be the Doctor's conscience.

Also, I do think they are a bit silly. I mean, fish breathing water through things, looks like a nice idea on paper, but really it's a bit silly isnt it? How come they dont just stay in the oceans from whereever they came from, you wouldnt expect fishes to ever become a space faring species.
Yeah, but then you wouldn't expect fishes to drag themselves onto land and evolve into mammals either, would you? Or for a air-breathing race to put air-filled bowls on their heads and travel into a vacuum environment.
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Old 22-11-2012, 13:44
johnnysaucepn
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This story was clearly a title first and a story later: I find that approach very cynical, and don't have any time for it. (Similarly, Phantom Menace was clearly a range of toys first and a script second).
I'm not convinced by that - I think it was a strong idea to start with, and the fact that the title doesn't really bear much resemblance to the story seems to indicate that the title was simply chosen for provocative effect, much like Let's Kill Hitler.

Why didn't they clone Donna and Martha too, if more people were needed?
Because it wouldn't have added anything to the story.
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Old 22-11-2012, 15:01
Shawn_Lunn
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I like the episode but ultimately, when you think about it - it's really pointless, isn't it?
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Old 22-11-2012, 15:55
sovietusername
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Yeah, but then you wouldn't expect fishes to drag themselves onto land and evolve into mammals either, would you? Or for a air-breathing race to put air-filled bowls on their heads and travel into a vacuum environment.
Well, being able to be on land and water would be an evolutionary bonus so yes. Also, if anyone was going to do it, it could only be land animals which could travel in space though, if you lived underwater then you wouldnt have all the basics that leads to the creation of science and technology e.g. fire. I'm convince that, if it wasnt for there underwater environment, Dophins would rule the planet as they have the brains for it. And yes, I'm well aware I sound insane
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Old 22-11-2012, 16:17
Granny McSmith
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I really liked this episode - from Georgia saying "Hello, Dad" with that big grin (no wonder David fell for her) to her nicking a spaceship and whizzing off, I thought it was all good fun, with some serious stuff about war for those who like that sort of thing.

Tennant was great, and I loved the bits where he mentioned the family he had lost.

Donna was wonderful, as ever. Martha I felt was necessary to have someone with the Hath.

The bit where Jenny "died" was suitably emotional and tragic - one more thing the poor Doctor has to suffer about. Brilliant.

The story held together well, and was funny, tragic and pacy. What more could anyone ask?
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Old 22-11-2012, 17:24
tinny
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I agree and dt sees to hate it too as he spent half of it in a strop, he pretended v well to like his daughter (who ended up being his wife) ax
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Old 22-11-2012, 20:04
Shawn_Lunn
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I really liked this episode - from Georgia saying "Hello, Dad" with that big grin (no wonder David fell for her) to her nicking a spaceship and whizzing off, I thought it was all good fun, with some serious stuff about war for those who like that sort of thing.

Tennant was great, and I loved the bits where he mentioned the family he had lost.

Donna was wonderful, as ever. Martha I felt was necessary to have someone with the Hath.

The bit where Jenny "died" was suitably emotional and tragic - one more thing the poor Doctor has to suffer about. Brilliant.

The story held together well, and was funny, tragic and pacy. What more could anyone ask?
- Georgia is wonderful. Really enjoyed her throughout the episode.
- It's one of David's strongest episodes, performances wise but he's done better.
- Donna was fab but Martha, I don't know, she deserved a better plot for her return.
- I thought it was manipulative and was angst for the sake of angst. Plus undermined with her being alive at the end.
- It had great moments but it still felt kind of pointless to be honest.
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Old 22-11-2012, 22:02
bbll22
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Horrible, horrible episode....why ever Stephen Greenhorn was allowed by after the mess the Lazarus Experiment was, I'll never know...this always felt like just a blatant filler episode to me and I never like that.

I thought Georgia was sub-standard as a guest star. I never liked her...bit of a minority view by the sound of it...

I liked the Hath....only real positive for me. DT, Tate and Freema with fine with what they had to work with, but that was a pretty poor script it has to be said.

I'm glad this Jenny's not returned so far and I hope she never will.

An episode where its next time trailer at the end of the Poison Sky was more enjoyable than the actual thing itself for me...S4's real lowpoint
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Old 22-11-2012, 22:18
Kapellmeister
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Utter drivel from beginning to end. 'Jenny' was, by far, my most disliked character ever to appear in Dr Who since 2005. I couldn't stand her. Her simpering attitude was so predictable. Badly cast and very badly acted. I was gutted at the end when she didn't snuff it. The part where Martha essentially kills the Hath by persuading it to go to the surface and then doesn't give it a second thought when it sinks into the swamp is unintentionally hilarious. Just tripe. By far the worst episode of series 4 and one of the worst ever.

1/10
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Old 22-11-2012, 22:37
James Frederick
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TBH I hope Jenny returns as a full time companion I'm quite disappointed she hasn't yet

I kinda like the episode not one of the best but still good
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Old 22-11-2012, 22:51
DavetheScot
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While it's not a particularly outstanding story, I'm always surprised at the vitriol this seems to attract. I really don't find it bad at all.

Jenny is highly personable and attractive, the story is reasonably diverting though not that memorable, Nigel Terry is not bad as a villain - a bit mundane, but then sometimes real villains are mundane - and the idea of the war only being a week old yet having lasted for generations is a good one.

Like I say, nought special, but not terrible.
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Old 23-11-2012, 01:04
RingoJ739K
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Daveyboy7472, where is your review on The Sontaran Stratagem and The Poison Sky?

This story wasn't the strongest but I don't think this it was bad. I actually liked it tbh, I grew to Jenny and Donna was hilarious.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it.
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Old 23-11-2012, 10:45
CoalHillJanitor
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While it's not a particularly outstanding story, I'm always surprised at the vitriol this seems to attract. I really don't find it bad at all.

Jenny is highly personable and attractive, the story is reasonably diverting though not that memorable, Nigel Terry is not bad as a villain - a bit mundane, but then sometimes real villains are mundane - and the idea of the war only being a week old yet having lasted for generations is a good one.

Like I say, nought special, but not terrible.
About where I am on this one.
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Old 23-11-2012, 23:59
krikkiter68
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I don't think this is a bad episode, but in my opinion it's a huge waste of Martha's character.
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Old 27-11-2012, 21:33
John_Strange
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I love this episode and I feel Martha is essential because the story requires a second companion and the audience needs a sympathetic character they instantly trust. Martha fits the bill, and her ability to survive on her won has already been established in the programme mythology - she ceased to be merely a companion a long time ago and that is why she will always appear to be a spare part; until she forms an equal partnership with Mickey Smith she is an archetypal loner.

Science in Dr Who has always been wibbly-wobbly, and as usual the huge pace serves to stop the casual viewer noticing the illogical bits. I think it is a great story, full of gusto and cheekiness, and ultmately tragic (from the Doctor's perspective). A superb performance by Georgia really makes the show, and a gun in the Doctor's hand never felt more disturbing. Once again the anti-war theme is explored, and the Doctor's heroic/inhuman attempt to rise above instinctual violent response is superbly explored, and again sets up the dilemmas explored in the series finale.

A corker!
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Old 27-11-2012, 22:43
Ed Sizzers
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Question:
Why didn't they clone Donna and Martha too, if more people were needed?
Because one Donna is already one Donna too many.
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Old 28-11-2012, 19:42
HeadLouse
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A great idea for an episode & story, but didn't work so well in execution. If you were to take out Jenny from the plot completely it wouldn't have any real affect on the story progression, & felt like to me, they had an idea for a story, & shoe horned in Georgia Moffatt, because she is PD's daughter.

She's not that great an actress either imo in this or that god awful Spooks: Code 9.
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Old 28-11-2012, 20:04
Corwin
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A great idea for an episode & story, but didn't work so well in execution. If you were to take out Jenny from the plot completely it wouldn't have any real affect on the story progression, & felt like to me, they had an idea for a story, & shoe horned in Georgia Moffatt, because she is PD's daughter.
IIRC she actually auditioned for the role of the Unicorn in Unicorn and the Wasp but was told by RTD that he had a better part for her.

So the role was there before she became involved. Of course it may have been written with her in mind as she'd also audtioned for Rose Tyler.
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Old 29-11-2012, 10:56
gboy
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Afraid I have to join in the chorus of disapproval with this one: a dull story, with little going for it. By far and away the weakest story of (a brilliant) series 4.

On the plus side - it did bring together David Tennant and Georgia Moffet... proving love can strike even in the most unexpected of places.
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Old 29-11-2012, 11:56
johnnysaucepn
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A great idea for an episode & story, but didn't work so well in execution. If you were to take out Jenny from the plot completely it wouldn't have any real affect on the story progression, & felt like to me, they had an idea for a story, & shoe horned in Georgia Moffatt, because she is PD's daughter.
I have to partially disagree, because there are two stories at play here, not one, and although they're not directly dependent, they do relate to each other.

There is the story of the war on the planet, and the resolution of it, and you're right that that doesn't require Jenny. However, the B plot is that of the Doctor facing up to what he is, what he's lost, what he does to people, and why that's not such a bad thing.

Fighting for the sake of victory, or winning a prize, is not what the Doctor's about, although he's finally able to admit that he does teach people to fight. It's only in the final resolution that he realises that fighting can be noble, as long as you're fighting for the right reasons. Jenny exists as a half-way between the general and the Doctor - she's programmed to behave like the general, but has the capacity to take on the Doctor's teachings.

Much like Vastra or Strax later, we see how much the Doctor influences people for the better.
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Old 29-11-2012, 15:43
ryanr554
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I actually like this episode, I am annoyed that they added Jenny in and conveniently killed her off at the end and then even more conveniently, they bring her back to life after the Doctor is gone.

Apart from that, it was pretty good in my opinion. It was kinda like one of those trapped in space episodes only with a twist. Also, Martha was completely irrelevant in this even though I liked seeing Freema back
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Old 11-12-2012, 23:36
Abomination
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If there is one episode I could take out of Series 4, it'd be this one. Any other episode in this series could be placed in Series 1-3 and I think it would be considered a stand-out piece. But The Doctor's Daughter was so hugely flawed, it felt like an episode of a show that was finding its feet and hadn't quite worked out all the kinks yet.

For the only time in the series, the characters of the episode were incredibly jarring. The Doctor and Donna delivered their usual fantastic duo performance, and I'll stretch as far as to say that Georgia Moffett was wonderful as Jenny. My problem with her lays with her conclusion - they made such a point of killing her off, and it was a powerful death, even if it limited the scope and purpose of the episode. Bringing her back undid the emotional close we thought we'd got, and what's more is that it never even contributed to the rest of the series. If they'd had Jenny show up with the kitchen sink cast of the series finale, I think this episode might have been more credible, but given that she didn't, the whole premise seemed a bit pointless.

Martha was an unfortunate weakness of this episode...meant to humanise the Hath so we're more on side with them come the episodes end. The episode holds itself in high regard, because the plot just wasn't substantial enough to even need that. As a result, we got some over the top acting from Agyeman in a story that didn't really need her, and just took the limelight away from Donna that little bit more - in her only series, she featured in just three episodes that didn't also feature either Agyeman or Piper to some extent or another...and even then 'Pompeii and 'Ood made heavy allusions to Rose's return. But back to the point, Martha felt very tacked on, and she didn't take anything away from this story that altered her perceptions of The Doctor, or developed her character any further. In hindsight, it's almost as if they gave her an increased episode count to make a point that they "didn't get rid of her in Series 3 because she wasn't as popular as Rose". If that was what they were aiming for, I'd have much preferred Turn Left to see Rose, Martha and Donna team together for an episode

Beyond Martha, the rest of the guest cast did the job but were ultimately nothing particularly inspiring. The Hath don't have the longevity of The Ood or The Weeping Angels, though it was nice to see a new prosthetic, and the other characters proved to be relatively insignificant in the grander scheme. The same can be said for the plot, which could have been a lot more tied to the Doctor's response to suddenly having a daughter...speaking of, that opening sequence pieced everything together far too quickly. On that alone, I wouldn't describe the woman as "daughter", and only came to that conclusion after enjoying Moffett's performance. The conclusion, including the rejennyration, was also a let down. The Doctor threatening the rebel with the gun wasn't nearly as powerful a scene as it thought it was, and the only thing I positively took away was that Donna's intention to "stay with that man forever" made the finale sorely more tragic in retrospect.

It wasn't a horrendous episode, and it had a few positives to it. But it did lumber, it was overly daft and clunky and overall wasn't up to what I consider to be the high standard of Series 4.
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