Follow a few 'bitches in heat' threads I'm wondering what everyones stance on spaying and neutering dogs and cats is?

Personally I believe there are enough of both species around and think the majority should be stopped from breeding.

Yes its a different issue if you have a pedigree (although I do think the breeding of any animal should be much more closely monitored by the authorities)

So have you had your pets 'done' or not? Why (on both sides)....

Getting a non-breeding bitch spayed before the first season is a no brainer. The health benefits - practically zero chance of mammary tumours, zero chance of pyro, zero chance of pregnancy and the associated risks. Versus a small chance of incontinence.

In my girl's case, she had to wait as she had terrible skin problems which were aggravated by the season. We didn't find a safe window until after her second season.

With dogs it is different, especially the large breed dogs or dogs that are prone to bone cancer. Personally, for my breeds neutering did have more health benefits than risks and it had additional behavioural benefits - Murphy was a cat rapist and would hump anything he could get between his legs. Post snip, the cats slept safely. He also became easier to train as he no longer had the distraction of being flooded with testosterone. Han was similar, though less extreme with less extreme results. Both were older dogs - Murphy I could cope with his behaviour until I had a baby then the testicles had to go. He was about 4. Han was supposed to be a show dog but he didn't take to it. He was about 18 months and it was primarily to help in his behaviour - his first owner had not given him a great start in life.

But with some breeds of dog, the risk of bone cancer increases with a neuter versus the minimal risk of testicular cancer or aggressive prostate cancer. And in large breeds an early neuter is advised against as they should be fully matured due to ill affects on the growth plates if done to early - plus they mature socially more slowly and an early neuter can further retard this.

In summary, bitches - yes. Dogs - depends on the dog, the situation, and the breed. But generally, yes.

Both of mine are done but we are thinking if we ever have another boy we won't do it unless he has any problems. We had Duncan done, he was nervous before and the action of removing the hormones sent that nervousness sky high, making him incredibly fear aggresive. Speaking to our vet now he says if he had been presented with him he would have tried to talk us out of neutering him as this is a common enough side effect that he could have pedicted Duncan would be like this.

Girls we would have done because there are far more positives surrounding the operation.

sorry but I'm chuckling at 'cat rapist'


What about the risk of girls becoming permanent teenagers if spayed too early? (I've never had girls, so only heard about this at college)

Ref boys: the cancer bit is interesting, as is the fear bit - my JRX is very nervous, the chop didn't seem to worsen it thank goodness, it just seems to be his nature (when we got him as a pup he barely came out of his box the first day). However he is VERY humpy still (The poor toys!) - something that I don't think will ever go away!

What does becoming a permanent teenager mean ? All our girls but one were done after their first season all were happy healthy dogs nutty as fruit cakes even the undone one.

From what I understand it isn't such an issue in bitches. Seems even in the dog world girls mature faster than boys

Plus the health benefits out way all other considerations - even in large breed girls.

They say that spaying too early means the hormones don't stop and you end up with a dappy teenager for life. My friends just had her dalmatian done at 6 months and the lecturers were all anti it being done so early...

But that's the fun of having a dappy dopey silly girl. They remain like that due to how we treat them and hormones IMO as our unneutered girl was just as crazy as our neutered girls. If we allowed them to mature normally I am not sure they would fit into our lives so well.

Our dog died on the table whilst being spayed - had a heart condition that had not been detected. When we eventually had dog number 2 it was a tough choice but didn't want to risk unwanted puppies so had her done. We were nervous wrecks but she was fine.
Now have two cats, both of whom have been done. I think it's the responsible thing to do if you are not planning to breed.

I've had both my cats neutered as I didn't want them spraying, wandering off to find a female and causing a nuisance as well as adding to the cat population.

My Grandma never speyed her dogs preferring them to be a 'nature intended'. She was from a different generation. I can remember 2 of her dogs always desparate to get out when they were on heat and Grandma having difficulty when taking them out for walks as other dogs were very attracted to them. My Grandma was a stubborn woman God rest her soul!

It definitely depends on the individual animal IMHO.
With cats, I'd say as early as possible unless they going to be house cats.

With dogs it's a little more tricky. Most people I know of recommend spaying btiches after they have had a season and are physically and mentally mature, other wise it can have adverse effects on behaviour and growth.
Also, it is a major invasive surgery for bitches, I won't spay my nervous bitch until I am sure she will cope with the procedure.

With dogs, tbh, I see no reason to castrate until the dog is 4-5 years old unless it is seriously frustrated. IMO, it's a bit of a myth that castration will improve dogs' behaviour.

I personally think that the possibility of sccidntal litters is irrelevant. Responsible owners can easily owner intact animals without them breeding, they have been for centuries.

Yes we managed to keep our intact girl safe from pregnancy and honestly wasn't that hard, on lead walks in areas there were few dogs, spray her with citronella spray stopped all dogs approaching her they really don't like that smell

We had to have one of our dogs done age 10 because he had postrate problems, and the vet said, only thing to do.

My puppy was going to be done last week (age 6 1/2 mth), but the vet said to wait until she had her first season. Reason she dribbled a bit when saying hello to the vet, and she said that could be a sign she might get incontinent (age 5 or 6) if done before her first season. So now she wont be done until early next year.

Did she not mind the smell?

She didn't have a choice I'm afraid, if she had not been such a tart she could have been smell free

Aww bless

I had my male Shih Tzu done, mostly because we knew we didn't ever want to breed him or show him. It also became obvious early on that he had wandering tendencies which the vet said could be aggravated by bitches in season. We also wanted to eliminate any potential aggression since we often have young children around the house. We discussed all the pros and cons with our vet and decided it was right for us and for our boy.

I was shocked though at how many people thought it was outrageous that I was putting him through a "non-essential" procedure. Some of the comments I received were awful, especially from other dog owners

this is something i had no idea about at all!

what breeds does this tend to affect?

to be honest, i'm in the camp where it's better to have them done if you're not planning on breeding.
we kept our dog intact until he was about 4 and a half, but once our older dog passed away, his behaviour just became difficult to live with (he became slightly more likely to snap at other dogs and would sit at our front door howling all night when the intact bitches in the area came into season, as well as what he had previously been doing which was obsessively licking women's legs for around a week every month, after my friend stayed one night, she went home with claw marks down her legs )
we did originally have plans to breed him if the opportunity ever arose, but after a good long think about him, how it could affect him, and after learning of the dogs trust subsidised neutering scheme, it just seemed like the right thing to do to have him sorted.
behaviour wise, it very thankfully evened him out! the howling stopped and he's a lot more obedient now.

unfortunately though, his weight ballooned up to 30kg.
it's really not good to be told that your dog needs to lose a third of his body weight to be at his "ideal" weight, but i can scream until i'm blue in the face at my mother about not giving him treats, but she still blooming does it.

any bitches i have will always be done though i think. after witnessing how uncomfortable our older dog was with her first season, it's just not worth putting them through it their entire lives, especially when there are so many health benefits to being spayed too.

i also had the rather unpleasant experience of being sat on by my friends in-season GSD a few weeks ago. Hungover then looking down at my arm at what she'd left there...

I had Woody done as soon as he was old enough. The vets We were with also had a discount for getting pets chipped at the same time as getting neutered/spayed which I thought was a good idea.

The main reason we had him done was due to not knowing if he'd fathered kittens or not. I sound a right soppy thing but didn't want that to happen and kittens ending up being abandoned/abused.

I had The Beast done for the reason that many Cat Hotels won't take 'whole' male cats and, that mum (the voice of reason) said unneutered males cats tend to fight and relieve themselves anyplace they choose.

My only real concern when I took him for the snip, was that he would loose his 'spirit'

Again, voices/opinions in my ear said male cats can get a bit lazy afterwards.

As it happened I needn't have worried on that score; after a night sleeping his drugs off, he was back to full gitness capability

To be honest the issue of The Beast fathering random kittens all over the place never really crossed my mind.

Although, thinking about it, the image of an angry cat owner banging on my door with a pregnant kitty and a shotgun (think wedding) does make me smile

We have had our rescue hound from a pup and one of the terms of adoption was getting her spayed at 6-9 months which we did do. We would spay any dog/cat we get. Shelters are bursting at the seams with unwanted animals, we really don't need to be adding to them. It makes my blood boil when I see people on Facebook asking around for kittens.

As with bitches, I think it is a no-brainer to get cats done as soon as possible. Calling isn't fun for a cat (or owner) and the spraying and fighting in Toms can be horrendous.

even if they are going to be house cats IMO

my two older girls were done before they had a heat episode but the younger one had early puberty. my poor tortie girl was looking at me in shock as her little sister shuffled backwards into her face.

Bib: my mums collie did the same, was 31kg, I got him down to 27 whilst mum worked away, then his weight started creeping back up, I discovered she keeps treating him. I could scream, she says 'he doesn't eat that much' but I don't think she realises she gives him scraps from dinner, a 'little' extra biscuit with his diet meat, some chicken on top, a bit of gravy to make it taste nice, etc etc. he's 13 and his legs are giving way but she won't listen. I've even tried the tough love and told her she is killing him. The vet said hell have less than 2 years at this rate, but could have 5-6 if he looses it. She just shrugs!

I know she loves him and thinks she's doing the best but she will kill him, and then she'll be heart broken.

it's a hard situation to be in, i had to fight tooth ans nail with her for years to get her to change our older collies diet
i made a very unpopular thread a few years ago about her, he diet was atrocious, tinned roast beef/stewed steak in gravy every day for her dinner, then either that again, or the slightly better options of a fillet of white fish or a pre-cooked chicken breast for her tea. all this while having a bowl of bakers complete down throughout the day. (the bakers was essential as if she didn't eat little and often, she'd vomit bile) it was the only place as well that she really got her vitamins & minerals from.
she wasn't incredibly overweight, just very slightly (she was a very inactive dog due to having hip dysplasia, so i'm surprised she wasn't a house end.) but her diet was very high in salt. She did eventually allow me to improve her diet a lot, she still got her beef for her dinner, but a slightly reduced amount with less of the gravy on it, vegetables and shredded wheat, or wheatabix/rice mixed in with it.

her evening meals were boiled offal (heart/liver or the odd time it was chicken or turkey meat) with vegetables and pasta/rice/potato/wheatabix/shredded wheat.
also with the bakers down all day. it was far from perfect, but a definite step up from constant beef with no fibre.

only recently did i realise i completely neglected her calcium requirements.

we're blessed with Jake that he's on dry food and hasn't ever really been fussy and refused to eat it.
in fact it used to be a battle to get him to eat properly, but since his neuter he's had an insatiable appetite.
this and his weight has been the only real downsides to having him done.

the fact is that mum thinks he's starving as he has such small meals, but it's simply not the case.
it seems to be a thing that mums like to spoil the dogs of the family, but killing them with kindness is a very real thing. it's so hard to get them to change their ways.