[davrosdodebird]

Ideas discussions and theories concerning the regeneration limit are around, I thought I would add my 2ps worth, as I thought of a solution this morning that doesn't involve just upping the number of times a Time Lord can regenerate, and it partially retcons The Deadly Assassin so it still makes sense given my theory.

What if the Master hadn't simply used up all his regenerations? Say he was suffering from a debilitating disease which suspended his regenerative capacity. His body was wasting away, rotting and dying without the means to heal itself.

Time Lords do not have any regeneration limit. Rather, once they have used 12 regenerations/ 13 lives, they become susceptible to such diseases, having renewed their bodies so many times already. Thus, after the 13th body, regeneration becomes more difficult, rather than impossible.

I would like to see a story along these lines, as we have seen the Doctor struggling with regeneration before, and this would put a slightly new slant on things.

So what do you think? And what's your own theory?

[TRT1968]

Originally Posted by davrosdodebird

Ideas discussions and theories concerning the regeneration limit are around, I thought I would add my 2ps worth, as I thought of a solution this morning that doesn't involve just upping the number of times a Time Lord can regenerate, and it partially retcons The Deadly Assassin so it still makes sense given my theory.

What if the Master hadn't simply used up all his regenerations? Say he was suffering from a debilitating disease which suspended his regenerative capacity. His body was wasting away, rotting and dying without the means to heal itself.

Time Lords do not have any regeneration limit. Rather, once they have used 12 regenerations/ 13 lives, they become susceptible to such diseases, having renewed their bodies so many times already. Thus, after the 13th body, regeneration becomes more difficult, rather than impossible.

I would like to see a story along these lines, as we have seen the Doctor struggling with regeneration before, and this would put a slightly new slant on things.

So what do you think? And what's your own theory?

There are other canon references to the regeneration limit than Deadly Assassin (Mawdryn Undead for one, and Let's Kill Hitler). It is canon (now) that the Time Lords can trigger a new cycle of regenerations, as they brought back "The Master" (End of Time, 5 Doctors), and that sufficient amounts of energy can also trigger a new cycle (Keeper of Traken). So there is plenty of scope for the writers to get around that little problem.

[Davidus]

Not a bad idea, but didn't he need the Sash of Rassilon to either protect himself from the forces which came from the Eye of Harmony and to converth the energy to be able to have those extra regenerations??

My guess is that the Sash is currently with the President of the High Council of the Time Lords who, as we all know, is currently a bit busy being time-locked on Gallifrey.

But then, anything's possible

Maybe the White Guardian could help out, or Omega's still lurking somewhere out there and I'm sure he'd be only too willing to lend a hand......well, ok - to kill the Doctor sure, but there will most likely be enough force/energy excuse to be able to wrangle it.

[johnnysaucepn]

Originally Posted by davrosdodebird

What if the Master hadn't simply used up all his regenerations? Say he was suffering from a debilitating disease which suspended his regenerative capacity. His body was wasting away, rotting and dying without the means to heal itself.

Time Lords do not have any regeneration limit. Rather, once they have used 12 regenerations/ 13 lives, they become susceptible to such diseases, having renewed their bodies so many times already. Thus, after the 13th body, regeneration becomes more difficult, rather than impossible.

It's as good as any - although it also retcons The Five Doctors, in which the Master is promised a new cycle of regenerations if he helps out. If we were to take that into account, then it would suggest that the Time Lords have the ability to cure these kinds of diseases, meaning it's not such a health limitation after all.

[Sophie ~Oohie~]

Originally Posted by davrosdodebird

Ideas discussions and theories concerning the regeneration limit are around, I thought I would add my 2ps worth, as I thought of a solution this morning that doesn't involve just upping the number of times a Time Lord can regenerate, and it partially retcons The Deadly Assassin so it still makes sense given my theory.

What if the Master hadn't simply used up all his regenerations? Say he was suffering from a debilitating disease which suspended his regenerative capacity. His body was wasting away, rotting and dying without the means to heal itself.

Time Lords do not have any regeneration limit. Rather, once they have used 12 regenerations/ 13 lives, they become susceptible to such diseases, having renewed their bodies so many times already. Thus, after the 13th body, regeneration becomes more difficult, rather than impossible.

I would like to see a story along these lines, as we have seen the Doctor struggling with regeneration before, and this would put a slightly new slant on things.

So what do you think? And what's your own theory?

As much as I would probably like an episode involving Time Lords getting debilitating diseases and failed regenerations, I don't think it would work because the limit has been mentioned too many times.
I would personally solve it by having the Doctor find a way to extend his regenerations and have to decide whether he wants to because it's extremely painful and dangerous (It probably involves burning energy beams.)

[davrosdodebird]

I would say that a new regen cycle doesn't cure the disease, it simply replaces the old one, like upgrading a faulty program on the computer. The end result is the same as you say johnny. But maybe the Time Lords, being so prudish, prefer not to hand out new regen cycles willy nilly. That'd be in their nature of not wanting to interfere with the natural order of things.

[davrosdodebird]

Originally Posted by Sophie ~Oohie~

As much as I would probably like an episode involving Time Lords getting debilitating diseases and failed regenerations, I don't think it would work because the limit has been mentioned too many times.
I would personally solve it by having the Doctor find a way to extend his regenerations and have to decide whether he wants to because it's extremely painful and dangerous (It probably involves burning energy beams.)

My problem with saying "no it's not 13 its something else really!" or having the Doctor acquire new regenerations is that it doesn't solve the problem at hand, it just delays the time when fandom says "the doctor is running out of regenerations! what do we do?!" -- saying that the limit is just a measure of how many "safe" or "healthy" regenerations a time lord can have means there is no real limit after all.

[Sophie ~Oohie~]

Originally Posted by davrosdodebird

My problem with saying "no it's not 13 its something else really!" or having the Doctor acquire new regenerations is that it doesn't solve the problem at hand, it just delays the time when fandom says "the doctor is running out of regenerations! what do we do?!" -- saying that the limit is just a measure of how many "safe" or "healthy" regenerations a time lord can have means there is no real limit after all.

Okay does that mean extremely horrible and weird things will happen to him (and anyone else, hopefully Romana) for months every time they regenerate past 13? >:-)

[smiddlehurst]

Not wishing to be rude but why does it have to be solved? The new series has hardly mentioned it, certainly not as a major plot point, so it only really needs to be covered off as a nod to continuity. That's ridiculously easy to do, just go "Last of the timelords, 12 regenerations was imposed by high council, now they're gone it's infinite."

Now there's obviously an opportunity to tell an interesting story around this one if they choose to go that route but, and this is just my opinion of course, I don't really see that there's any major problem in need of solving here.

[davrosdodebird]

Originally Posted by Sophie ~Oohie~

Okay does that mean extremely horrible and weird things will happen to him (and anyone else, hopefully Romana) for months every time they regenerate past 13? >:-)

Would be interesting to see, but I would say that the Doctor is extremely young to have gone through this many regenerations, and that he has a natural talent for regenerating, even though he can't control what he regenerates into (as is the case with some timelords/ ladies)

[davrosdodebird]

Originally Posted by smiddlehurst

Not wishing to be rude but why does it have to be solved? The new series has hardly mentioned it, certainly not as a major plot point, so it only really needs to be covered off as a nod to continuity. That's ridiculously easy to do, just go "Last of the timelords, 12 regenerations was imposed by high council, now they're gone it's infinite."

Now there's obviously an opportunity to tell an interesting story around this one if they choose to go that route but, and this is just my opinion of course, I don't really see that there's any major problem in need of solving here.

Because for me that doesn't ring true. Regeneration is a natural process, like breathing. It would be very strange indeed if someone were to tell me "the government has decided you can only have 1million breaths." (equal to 49 years)

Aside from murdering me I don't see how that is enforcable. But yes, it's easy to say, hard to believe. As is the case with most thing in nu who recently

[TRT1968]

Originally Posted by davrosdodebird

Because for me that doesn't ring true. Regeneration is a natural process, like breathing. It would be very strange indeed if someone were to tell me "the government has decided you can only have 1million breaths." (equal to 49 years)

Aside from murdering me I don't see how that is enforcable. But yes, it's easy to say, hard to believe. As is the case with most thing in nu who recently

Logan's run. That is all.

[davrosdodebird]

*goes to look up the reference*

[davrosdodebird]

That's still not a system that the Time Lords would go in for IMO. They prefer to leave well alone, and as they cannot be completely sure what the future holds for any timelord, they must surely operate their policy of non-interference on themselves?

[Corwin]

Originally Posted by davrosdodebird

Because for me that doesn't ring true. Regeneration is a natural process, like breathing.

Not really since it's not something Gallifreyians have had since they first evolved, it's a process that was given to them by Rassilon.

The fact that the Timelords can give a new regeneration cycle to someone implies that they also have the power to Limit them.

They can also be taken away from a Time Lord with the equipment for such stored in every TARDIS.

[Simon_Foston]

I think it may have been settled already. When River used up all her regenerations to save the Doctor in Let's Kill Hitler, it could be that only one load of regenerative energy was needed to heal him while the others can be used as normal in the future. My other suspicion is that the Time Lords may have already given the Doctor a new batch of regenerations in order to fight the Daleks in the Time War, just like they brought back the Master.

[davrosdodebird]

Originally Posted by Corwin

Not really since it's not something Gallifreyians have had since they first evolved, it's a process that was given to them by Rassilon.

The fact that the Timelords can give a new regeneration cycle to someone implies that they also have the power to Limit them.

They can also be taken away from a Time Lord with the equipment for such stored in every TARDIS.

Surely the ability to regenerate becomes a natural one, in such a way that distinguishes Time Lords from Gallifreyans?

[Sophie ~Oohie~]

Originally Posted by davrosdodebird

Would be interesting to see, but I would say that the Doctor is extremely young to have gone through this many regenerations, and that he has a natural talent for regenerating, even though he can't control what he regenerates into (as is the case with some timelords/ ladies)

Even if he has a 'Natural talent for regenerating' (which I would say he doesn't from the fact he's laying around moaning afterwards half the time ) that still means someone else could end up deformed with an eye in the back of their head or something due to shockingly weird failed regeneration.

[James Frederick]

I think it could be that it's the Time Lords themselves put a cap on the limit with them no longer around now there is no limit after 12 he no longer knows if he will or won't.

Or during The Time War The Time Lords changed it so they had unlimited regenerations as that would give them a better chance of winning.

[codename_47]

Originally Posted by smiddlehurst

Not wishing to be rude but why does it have to be solved? The new series has hardly mentioned it, certainly not as a major plot point, so it only really needs to be covered off as a nod to continuity. That's ridiculously easy to do, just go "Last of the timelords, 12 regenerations was imposed by high council, now they're gone it's infinite."

Now there's obviously an opportunity to tell an interesting story around this one if they choose to go that route but, and this is just my opinion of course, I don't really see that there's any major problem in need of solving here.

I think this is exactly right. Casual viewers are not going to be attracted to a story based around an ill thought out line from 30 years ago.

If the line solving this in Sarah Jane isn't enough, (and it should be) then it'd probably be fine to just have the 14th Doctor wake up and babble something about
"huh...didn't think that would happen, guess the limit died with my people then...."

You can't get too bogged down in the minatue, sometimes a throwaway line is enough.

(Though ironically, Red Dwarf likes solving entire cliffhangers this way, which takes the idea too far sometimes )

[TRT1968]

Originally Posted by James Frederick

I think it could be that it's the Time Lords themselves put a cap on the limit with them no longer around now there is no limit after 12 he no longer knows if he will or won't.

Or during The Time War The Time Lords changed it so they had unlimited regenerations as that would give them a better chance of winning.

Yes, there's nothing quite like bringing an end to all the inter-house fighting and killing than limiting their "immortality". Rassilon was wise.

[Corwin]

Originally Posted by davrosdodebird

Surely the ability to regenerate becomes a natural one, in such a way that distinguishes Time Lords from Gallifreyans?

Not if you go with the Idea that to be a Time Lord you have to attend the Academy.

During the time there Students would be given the ability to regenerate.

[Sophie ~Oohie~]

Originally Posted by TRT1968

Yes, there's nothing quite like bringing an end to all the inter-house fighting and killing than limiting their "immortality". Rassilon was wise.

There would be a revolution! I've heard of people rioting in the streets for less.

Originally Posted by Corwin

Not if you go with the Idea that to be a Time Lord you have to attend the Academy.
During the time there Students would be given the ability to regenerate.

Can we have a storyline about that going wrong?

[TRT1968]

I think I posted this on another thread somewhere, but (apart from it being a bit 'Trial of a Timelordy'), I'd like to see the Doctor having to pass judgment on himself in order to see if he has used his regenerations wisely or not; is he, in his own opinion, worthy of another round of it. That way you could bring back all the past doctors and have clips from previous adventures etc.

[tinny]

I know , use no 7 regenterative cream haha or just cchange ax