From the link CupraPhil posted it looks like the Seagate 120Gbyte I looked at takes too much current at 12V, while your Samsung looks like a good match. I hope folks are reading this thread carefully, it's a minefield trying to find the right drive.
Upgrading the hard disk in a Thomson DHD 4000 (merged)
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Originally Posted by KJ44:
“From the link CupraPhil posted it looks like the Seagate 120Gbyte I looked at takes too much current at 12V, while your Samsung looks like a good match. I hope folks are reading this thread carefully, it's a minefield trying to find the right drive.”
“From the link CupraPhil posted it looks like the Seagate 120Gbyte I looked at takes too much current at 12V, while your Samsung looks like a good match. I hope folks are reading this thread carefully, it's a minefield trying to find the right drive.”
sorry, it was a 160GB, its back in the machine and working again now after a full format
Originally Posted by CupraPhill:
“sorry, it was a 160GB, its back in the machine and working again now after a full format”
“sorry, it was a 160GB, its back in the machine and working again now after a full format”
We know that the upgrade appears to have introduced some faults. What we don't know is if the HDD upgrades are also partly to blame. However we do know that the 160Gb drives are not fuly utilised (about 137Gb is). My personal advice is that you do not put a 160gb drive in, go for a 120Gb and if possible get a lower powered drive ie 5200 spindle speed. This way you are lessening the probability of HDD factors in the equation.
Can we make sure posts have which HDD and SW update people are using and be SPECIFIC about a fault. Especially whether it is a one off or repeatable. This way we can hopefully help each other not make the same mistakes and learn from DOES or does NOT work...
I can recommend the Samsung SN1203N. presently 25% discount at PC World = £52 incl. VAT I think...
Originally Posted by cj_rees:
“Can we make sure posts have which HDD and SW update people are using and be SPECIFIC about a fault.”
“Can we make sure posts have which HDD and SW update people are using and be SPECIFIC about a fault.”
Good idea. For the record, my DHD4000 is unmodified, 6 months old, used to be rock-solid stable, has original HD, runs 1.7.7 software. I've had the overnight "8 blue LEDS and orange error LED all lit" bug that needed a mains reboot, and that trashed all my recordings. So I'm the control guinea pig.
PS I was going to upgrade till the you-know-what hit the fan. I don't fancy losing 120 Gbyte's worth of recordings, I was lucky in that I'd archived what I wanted when it lost everything
ok, Im going to try and buy a slower drive this month and see if there are any improvements over my Seagate 7200rpm 160GB drive
It could well be that the Thom is sensitive to a particular brand / range of drives. That's why I chose a Seagate Barracuda - one less factor to mess things up if nothing else. So far I've had no problems.
Originally Posted by Rik HS:
“It could well be that the Thom is sensitive to a particular brand / range of drives. That's why I chose a Seagate Barracuda - one less factor to mess things up if nothing else. So far I've had no problems.”
“It could well be that the Thom is sensitive to a particular brand / range of drives. That's why I chose a Seagate Barracuda - one less factor to mess things up if nothing else. So far I've had no problems.”
exactly which drive? because mine is also a seagate barracuda
Originally Posted by Rik HS:
“160 GB Seagate Barracuda 8MB Cache 7200rpm ATA100 (ST3160023A)”
“160 GB Seagate Barracuda 8MB Cache 7200rpm ATA100 (ST3160023A)”
the same as mine (which has had problems, but its back in the machine), although when just checking it felt VERY hot to touch and its not even in the plastic caddy or with the lid on!
Does yours sound 'ticky' at times?
You mean occaisional bouts of frenetic seek activity? This happens every now and again - otherwise it's quiet.
I posted on the 23rd December to say that a Samsung 160gb hard drive (SP1604N) had failed after a few days and posted again on the 28th to say that after a low level format it was working again.
This morning the same failure had happened, the standby LED was flashing yellow and there was no response to remote or box. After powering off and on the LED flashed yellow for a few seconds and changed to a steady yellow.
As I was unplugging the box (cursing the fact that more recordings were lost) I remembered a post about not connecting the aerial.
Well it was worth a try so I plugged the scart back in and then the power. Low and behold a flashing yellow LED which changed to a steady yellow LED which changed to a steady Red LED which changed to a Green LED when I pressed standby.
All recordings were there and played happily. I then plugged the aerial back in and the box would not respond. I tried this a few times, success without the aerial, failure with.
I have archived a couple of programmes onto DVD and have put the original drive back in the Thomson to record some programmes this evening. Hopefully the no aerial trick will work another day so that I can get the other recordings off the Samsung drive.
I’ve no idea what’s happening here with the aerial or why the drive should work for a few days again after a low level format. When I’ve got all the recordings off the Samsung it will go into the computer.
Thank you Giblets you have saved my Christmas recordings.
This morning the same failure had happened, the standby LED was flashing yellow and there was no response to remote or box. After powering off and on the LED flashed yellow for a few seconds and changed to a steady yellow.
As I was unplugging the box (cursing the fact that more recordings were lost) I remembered a post about not connecting the aerial.
Originally Posted by Giblets:
“I found that if I plugged the unit in without the aerial connected it worked fine - you could play back programmes from the disk, navigate the menus and stuff but just couldn't use the thing for what it was designed for, i.e. recording Freeview broadcasts!”
“I found that if I plugged the unit in without the aerial connected it worked fine - you could play back programmes from the disk, navigate the menus and stuff but just couldn't use the thing for what it was designed for, i.e. recording Freeview broadcasts!”
Well it was worth a try so I plugged the scart back in and then the power. Low and behold a flashing yellow LED which changed to a steady yellow LED which changed to a steady Red LED which changed to a Green LED when I pressed standby.
All recordings were there and played happily. I then plugged the aerial back in and the box would not respond. I tried this a few times, success without the aerial, failure with.
I have archived a couple of programmes onto DVD and have put the original drive back in the Thomson to record some programmes this evening. Hopefully the no aerial trick will work another day so that I can get the other recordings off the Samsung drive.
I’ve no idea what’s happening here with the aerial or why the drive should work for a few days again after a low level format. When I’ve got all the recordings off the Samsung it will go into the computer.
Thank you Giblets you have saved my Christmas recordings.
I wonder if any upgraders here have also experimented with replacing the cooling fan and HDD mount to make the box a bit quieter.
I know of this guys good work, but the fans I have looked at all seem to be too thick to fit under the hard drive, even when the entire plastic tray is discarded.
Any comments appreciated.
I know of this guys good work, but the fans I have looked at all seem to be too thick to fit under the hard drive, even when the entire plastic tray is discarded.
Any comments appreciated.
Just to thank you guys for the help I got from this forum when I upgraded the hard disk in my 4000. I had problems getting the caddy out, but a quick read and it was resolved.
Replaced the original disk with a Maxtor Diamondmax Plus 9, 120 gig. (Part No-6Y120L0). Appears to work fine and downloaded the EPG last night. Any problems I will post.
Replaced the original disk with a Maxtor Diamondmax Plus 9, 120 gig. (Part No-6Y120L0). Appears to work fine and downloaded the EPG last night. Any problems I will post.
Just to confirm others' reports I too had a complete failure on an upgraded hard disk machine today. I was up when the box went into standby last night (don't ask) and noticed it seemed to take much longer to complete the EPG update. This morning it had the orange (power) and yellow (message) lights on but was completely unresponsive to remote control or front panel buttons.
I left if for a few hours then eventually unplugged it for about half an hour. When I plugged it back in it would never proceed beyond the one orange (power) light stage. The power light never went red to indicate standby mode and the box was completely dead.
I left it for a couple of hours and tried power cycling it again a couple of times but nothing changed. I called the Thomson help line and though very helpful they said they knew of no reason why last night's OTA should have been any different from any other and that I should take the DVR back to the shop. They seemed to think that given the symptoms the thing was broken beyond anything but a repair/replace back to store process could fix.
Knowing I couldn't do this (I've invalidated my warranty) I tried putting the original disk back in more out of desperation than anything. It powered up straight away and worked perfectly.
Then I started scouring these forums for clues and found this thread. Lo and behold when I switched back to the 120G disk and did not plug in the antennae it powered up normally and worked fine. All my xmas recordings were there and it even generated the thumbnails for stuff I recorded yesterday. Any time I plugged in the antennae it locked up and would not respond or even boot up again until the anteannae was removed.
Additionally the message light was on. The message was to tell me that "Drugland" on BBC2 tomorrow night (which was in my record list) appears to have changed time and that I should check it manually and adjust if necessary. I have lost my entire EPG so I don't know if Drugland really has changed it's broadcast time until after I download the EPG again tonight.
Anyway, I'm now staying with the original disk for the time being and the 120G disk will be set aside until I can archive all that lovely holiday telly to DVD. So notch up one more Seagate Barracuda 7200 (ST3120026A) upgrade that appears to have gone badly wrong.
I left if for a few hours then eventually unplugged it for about half an hour. When I plugged it back in it would never proceed beyond the one orange (power) light stage. The power light never went red to indicate standby mode and the box was completely dead.
I left it for a couple of hours and tried power cycling it again a couple of times but nothing changed. I called the Thomson help line and though very helpful they said they knew of no reason why last night's OTA should have been any different from any other and that I should take the DVR back to the shop. They seemed to think that given the symptoms the thing was broken beyond anything but a repair/replace back to store process could fix.
Knowing I couldn't do this (I've invalidated my warranty) I tried putting the original disk back in more out of desperation than anything. It powered up straight away and worked perfectly.
Then I started scouring these forums for clues and found this thread. Lo and behold when I switched back to the 120G disk and did not plug in the antennae it powered up normally and worked fine. All my xmas recordings were there and it even generated the thumbnails for stuff I recorded yesterday. Any time I plugged in the antennae it locked up and would not respond or even boot up again until the anteannae was removed.
Additionally the message light was on. The message was to tell me that "Drugland" on BBC2 tomorrow night (which was in my record list) appears to have changed time and that I should check it manually and adjust if necessary. I have lost my entire EPG so I don't know if Drugland really has changed it's broadcast time until after I download the EPG again tonight.
Anyway, I'm now staying with the original disk for the time being and the 120G disk will be set aside until I can archive all that lovely holiday telly to DVD. So notch up one more Seagate Barracuda 7200 (ST3120026A) upgrade that appears to have gone badly wrong.
Originally Posted by jackthom:
“I wonder if any upgraders here have also experimented with replacing the cooling fan and HDD mount to make the box a bit quieter.
I know of this guys good work, but the fans I have looked at all seem to be too thick to fit under the hard drive, even when the entire plastic tray is discarded.
Any comments appreciated.”
“I wonder if any upgraders here have also experimented with replacing the cooling fan and HDD mount to make the box a bit quieter.
I know of this guys good work, but the fans I have looked at all seem to be too thick to fit under the hard drive, even when the entire plastic tray is discarded.
Any comments appreciated.”
Re noise reduction. I have taken the HD out of the caddy and switched off the fan completely. The HD is sitting on bluetack on the board. I know other people have uwsed rubber bands or silicone tubing. I have also raised the unit with bigger feet to allow more airflow. Mine has been like this for three weeks now with no discernible problems. The only 'issue' is that I get occasional sound loss on recordings (a second or two) but I think that always used to happen.
http://www.samsung.com/Products/HardDiskDrive/consumer/
Spin up is what happens when the HDD motor is turned on, and the HDD needs more current to start the motor turning than it does when the motor is up to speed.
So, under the 0.31 software, if your 120 Gbyte HDD managed to spin up without upsetting the electronics, you were all set.
Under 1.7.7, the DHD4000 turns off the drive whenever it goes into standby. I think it spins up the drive at 3 in the morning to store the EPG but I could be mistaken, but it certainly puts the DHD4000 in standby so you have to spin-up at least once per day. So I think this greatly increases the chances of something going wrong with a 120 Gbyte HDD.
Here's a nice graph that shows the current surging to 2.25A at spin-up, settling to 0.5A steady state on a Seagate:
http://www.storagereview.com/guide20...spinPower.html
Some PC BIOSes allow you to wait several seconds for the drive to spin up before attempting to boot. My PC has 5 HDDs so I had to use this feature. So Thomson might be able to fix this by allowing a few more seconds before booting but this won't make them popular with impatient users.
So is there a fix? Obviously it helps to get a drive that takes similar current on +12V and +5V to the one fitted as standard. So this looks bad for the Seagate which takes +12V only. Fitting a big capacitor on +12V is a possibility, but it needs to be huge to deliver enough current for several seconds if the above graph is anything to go by, and could fry the PSU. There's no room to shoehorn in even a tiny PC PSU for the HDD, and I'm not sure how it should be earthed, so could fry your DHD4000. Finally, going back to 0.31 keeps the HDD spinning but you run the risk whenever it is turned off and on again.
Is putting the disk in standby worth losing the ability to upgrade?
Spin up is what happens when the HDD motor is turned on, and the HDD needs more current to start the motor turning than it does when the motor is up to speed.
So, under the 0.31 software, if your 120 Gbyte HDD managed to spin up without upsetting the electronics, you were all set.
Under 1.7.7, the DHD4000 turns off the drive whenever it goes into standby. I think it spins up the drive at 3 in the morning to store the EPG but I could be mistaken, but it certainly puts the DHD4000 in standby so you have to spin-up at least once per day. So I think this greatly increases the chances of something going wrong with a 120 Gbyte HDD.
Here's a nice graph that shows the current surging to 2.25A at spin-up, settling to 0.5A steady state on a Seagate:
http://www.storagereview.com/guide20...spinPower.html
Some PC BIOSes allow you to wait several seconds for the drive to spin up before attempting to boot. My PC has 5 HDDs so I had to use this feature. So Thomson might be able to fix this by allowing a few more seconds before booting but this won't make them popular with impatient users.
So is there a fix? Obviously it helps to get a drive that takes similar current on +12V and +5V to the one fitted as standard. So this looks bad for the Seagate which takes +12V only. Fitting a big capacitor on +12V is a possibility, but it needs to be huge to deliver enough current for several seconds if the above graph is anything to go by, and could fry the PSU. There's no room to shoehorn in even a tiny PC PSU for the HDD, and I'm not sure how it should be earthed, so could fry your DHD4000. Finally, going back to 0.31 keeps the HDD spinning but you run the risk whenever it is turned off and on again.
Is putting the disk in standby worth losing the ability to upgrade?
Originally Posted by pedrovski:
“Just to confirm others' reports I too had a complete failure on an upgraded hard disk machine today. I was up when the box went into standby last night (don't ask) and noticed it seemed to take much longer to complete the EPG update. This morning it had the orange (power) and yellow (message) lights on but was completely unresponsive to remote control or front panel buttons.”
“Just to confirm others' reports I too had a complete failure on an upgraded hard disk machine today. I was up when the box went into standby last night (don't ask) and noticed it seemed to take much longer to complete the EPG update. This morning it had the orange (power) and yellow (message) lights on but was completely unresponsive to remote control or front panel buttons.”
I have an upgraded DHD4000. I fitted a 120GB Maxtor Diamondmas Plus9 7200rpm 8mb ATA133 (Part number 6Y120P0 http://www.maxtor.com/_files/maxtor/...uick_specs.pdf ) 2 weeks ago. The disk is bigger taller than the Seagate I removed but still fits within the plastic caddy. Everything has been just fine until yesterday morning
. When I got to the box, after the kids had played with it, it was completely unresponsive with the power light showing green. When I disconnected and reconnected the power (after waiting 30s for the hard disk to spin down) the power light flashed amber for a few seconds then stayed solid amber. The unit was unresponsive from the remote and the front panel buttons except for the remote control led flashing briefly red when the power on/off button was pressed on the remote. The hard disk appeared to be ticking away slowly - not in a way that suggested that it was trying and retrying something but also not in a way that suggested it was executing a bit task.
In desperation I reconnected the orginal disk, the unit started up and worked perfectly (retaining the software upgrade at 1.7.7)
After reading this forum (thanks guys for saving my from my wife anger at loosing all of our Christmas recordings) I put the Maxtor disk back in and disconnected the aerial leads and reapplied the power - the system started perfectly and I was able to view my recordings.
Connecting the aerial caused the unit to hang immediately.
:Confused: Does anyone else believe that something in Monday's EPG must have caused a problem with the DHD4000? I wonder if it is just the upgraded ones or are other machines affected? I wonder how many people read this forum and haven't upgraded their machines?
Does anyone have a workaround to get the unit up and running again?
Incidently if anyone is wondering whether to buy one or not - do it now! The unit is great! www.unbeatable.co.uk £159.99 (don't know anything about the company - I bought from Curry's and got a price match via my credit card). This forum obviously concentrates on problems but I'm sure it would be twice as long if it just made comments on the good points! :grin:
Originally Posted by like2175:
“:Confused: Does anyone else believe that something in Monday's EPG must have caused a problem with the DHD4000? I wonder if it is just the upgraded ones or are other machines affected? I wonder how many people read this forum and haven't upgraded their machines?”
“:Confused: Does anyone else believe that something in Monday's EPG must have caused a problem with the DHD4000? I wonder if it is just the upgraded ones or are other machines affected? I wonder how many people read this forum and haven't upgraded their machines?”
I have a machine that has not been upgraded and no problems like the ones described. Does sounds like a bit of a wierd one. Anyone have any ideas whythe machine should crash when the aerial is connected? Have people tried non-bosted signals? Just a cable not connected to an aerial?
Originally Posted by fishnchips:
“Re noise reduction. I have taken the HD out of the caddy and switched off the fan completely. The HD is sitting on bluetack on the board. I know other people have uwsed rubber bands or silicone tubing. I have also raised the unit with bigger feet to allow more airflow. Mine has been like this for three weeks now with no discernible problems. The only 'issue' is that I get occasional sound loss on recordings (a second or two) but I think that always used to happen.”
“Re noise reduction. I have taken the HD out of the caddy and switched off the fan completely. The HD is sitting on bluetack on the board. I know other people have uwsed rubber bands or silicone tubing. I have also raised the unit with bigger feet to allow more airflow. Mine has been like this for three weeks now with no discernible problems. The only 'issue' is that I get occasional sound loss on recordings (a second or two) but I think that always used to happen.”
Thanks for the reply fishnchips. I must admit I didn't have the nerve to try this but I am tempted because I know the HDD is itself pretty quiet
Does the temperature of the case seem to have increased noticeably without a fan?
Originally Posted by like2175:
“
Incidently if anyone is wondering whether to buy one or not - do it now! The unit is great! www.unbeatable.co.uk £159.99 (don't know anything about the company - I bought from Curry's and got a price match via my credit card).”
“
Incidently if anyone is wondering whether to buy one or not - do it now! The unit is great! www.unbeatable.co.uk £159.99 (don't know anything about the company - I bought from Curry's and got a price match via my credit card).”
Unbeatable have been showing:
Originally Posted by www.unbeatable.co.uk:
“Currently in short supply”
“Currently in short supply”
For a while now, for clarification, are you saying that your credit card company (Barclays?) refunded the difference, or did Currys price match?
Dave.
Originally Posted by dodgyd:
“for clarification, are you saying that your credit card company (Barclays?) refunded the difference, or did Currys price match?
Dave.”
“for clarification, are you saying that your credit card company (Barclays?) refunded the difference, or did Currys price match?
Dave.”
I assume Barclaycard Price Promise
Quote from Barclaycard website:
Price Promise is not available to new customers from 1 January 2005.
Eligible customers can still claim for purchases made up to and on 31 January 2005. All new claims must be submitted before 1 April 2005.
More Info on Barclaycard Price Promise
Last edited by awestrope : 05-01-2005 at 17:03
Originally Posted by awestrope:
“I have a machine that has not been upgraded and no problems like the ones described. Does sounds like a bit of a wierd one. Anyone have any ideas whythe machine should crash when the aerial is connected? Have people tried non-bosted signals? Just a cable not connected to an aerial?”
“I have a machine that has not been upgraded and no problems like the ones described. Does sounds like a bit of a wierd one. Anyone have any ideas whythe machine should crash when the aerial is connected? Have people tried non-bosted signals? Just a cable not connected to an aerial?”
I suppose that whenever the aerial is connected the box is recording the live tv buffer. Presumably without a signal it doesn't attempt to do this. So whatever is creating this strange behaviour may be to do with an inability to write to the disk for some reason, with reading being unaffected.
Has anyone who HASN'T upgraded their drive experienced this problem?
I have got a 120Gb Seagate in mine and now I'm almost waiting for it to die on me! I think I read somewhere on the forum that someone managed to get their drive working again by reformatting it - anyone found a less drastic method?
Originally Posted by tmobbs:
“I suppose that whenever the aerial is connected the box is recording the live tv buffer. Presumably without a signal it doesn't attempt to do this. So whatever is creating this strange behaviour may be to do with an inability to write to the disk for some reason, with reading being unaffected.
Has anyone who HASN'T upgraded their drive experienced this problem?
I have got a 120Gb Seagate in mine and now I'm almost waiting for it to die on me! I think I read somewhere on the forum that someone managed to get their drive working again by reformatting it - anyone found a less drastic method?”
“I suppose that whenever the aerial is connected the box is recording the live tv buffer. Presumably without a signal it doesn't attempt to do this. So whatever is creating this strange behaviour may be to do with an inability to write to the disk for some reason, with reading being unaffected.
Has anyone who HASN'T upgraded their drive experienced this problem?
I have got a 120Gb Seagate in mine and now I'm almost waiting for it to die on me! I think I read somewhere on the forum that someone managed to get their drive working again by reformatting it - anyone found a less drastic method?”
I have the Thomson DHD4000 which got stuck in standby mode - still on the original hard drive, but with software 1.7.7.
Here are the events again.....
Looking at the epg, went passed the midnight into the next days listings. Machine froze up. Remote and front panel buttons stopped working.
Had to switch off at the power.
Turned the power back on.
Machine stuck in standby (red LED), remote and front panel would not work.
Repeated this process many times!
Then, after plugging the power back in, the power LED went yellow. Still no response from remote or front panel.
Repeated process a few times.
Switch the darn thing off at the wall and left it.
Switched back on the power, still frozen, but red LED power light (not yellow).
Unplugged the aerial wire.
Power off at the wall, power back on (still no aerial).
It's alive!
Remote and front panel keys working. Hard drive contents playback fine.
Plugged in the aerial (with the machine still ON) - instant freeze.
Power off at the wall.
Power back on (aerial also connected).
Stuck in standby.
DOne this a few times, until I was able to startup the Thomson without the aerial, then plug in the aerial - and it kept working. EPG is all wrong (missed the last nights download due to it being frozen in standby).
Switch off, and leave overnight.
Switched on the next morning, and........all works fine + epg now correct again.
No crashing since (so far).
Dave
Just to let you people know, my Seagate 160Gb is still working (cross everything!) since I swapped out the Maxtor (which Novatech have just refunded) on Christmas Eve - that's the 12 days of Christmas I guess... Who knows if it'll die soon but so far all OK.
I'm glad my 'aerial trick' saved some of you losing recordings - it certainly is weird that it works, but the previous poster may have hit the nail on the head - the aerial allows the chase-play buffers to be written and that may be enough for the disk (or more likely PSU) to turn its toes up.
Has anyone tried using a PC PSU externally for just the hard disk (i.e. just unplug the Molex connector from the drive and plug in an external one instead)? I have a spare PSU knocking about so I might be tempted to try if mine eventually packs up!
I also still have the 'blank screen' bug when I have been recording from a channel using instant record and then return from the menu I just get a blank screen - can change channels fine but whenever I try to go back to the channel I just recorded it skips back to the previous one (doesn't even show the EPG info for the blank channel). It's easily fixed by putting the unit into standby and back on again but that's another weird one that only I seem to have had
(even on the old hard disk I'm sure).
I'm glad my 'aerial trick' saved some of you losing recordings - it certainly is weird that it works, but the previous poster may have hit the nail on the head - the aerial allows the chase-play buffers to be written and that may be enough for the disk (or more likely PSU) to turn its toes up.
Has anyone tried using a PC PSU externally for just the hard disk (i.e. just unplug the Molex connector from the drive and plug in an external one instead)? I have a spare PSU knocking about so I might be tempted to try if mine eventually packs up!
I also still have the 'blank screen' bug when I have been recording from a channel using instant record and then return from the menu I just get a blank screen - can change channels fine but whenever I try to go back to the channel I just recorded it skips back to the previous one (doesn't even show the EPG info for the blank channel). It's easily fixed by putting the unit into standby and back on again but that's another weird one that only I seem to have had
(even on the old hard disk I'm sure).
Reading this thread is a bit depressing with all the talk of problems. Has anyone upgraded the HDD with no trouble whatsover? If so, what model of disk drive did you use, please?
Best,
Dave
Best,
Dave
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