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Official Formula 1 Thread (Part 8)


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Old 10-09-2013, 18:45
Sabre92
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Its not going to be as smooth as it currently is. Alonso seems to carry a lot of baggage with him. This isnt really a problem, when the team are working around him. As last season proved, he was very complimentary to the team, even though he didnt win the championship. With Kimi arriving, Alonso wont be number 1. So he will have to over-take his team mate, and not get him to move over as is the current situation. Can you imagine, what Kimi would say, if they said they were going to remove the seal on your gearbox, just so alonso can move further up the grid (as in the US last year)? Massa had no choice, but Kimi certainly wouldnt allow that.

Its also apparent from Alonsos 'genius' comment, and his recent comments in the media (which Montezemolo had to to talk to him about), that something was not right between him and team. Maybe he knew a while back that the team were in talks with Kimi. Praising of Massa (even though the slipstreaming didnt work). To be honest I have not heard Alonso heap that amount of praise on Massa before. Maybe it was his last ditched attempt at trying to persuade Ferrari on keeping Massa.

One thing is for sure, if Kimi does go to Ferrari, Vettels chances of winning the title next year, just got a little bit easier. His main rival for the last two seasons has been Alonso. With Kimi in the team, Alonso and Kimi will take points of each other - which will only help Vettel. Unless another team can step up, and challenge RBR, they are going to find it relatively easy next year as well.
See, I'm not sure that Alonso would have as much of an issue with Raikkonen as he would with someone like Hamilton and Vettel. Yes Raikkonen will be much more of a test than Massa and will beat him on occasion but Kimi isn't someone who cares about the politics of the team and gets involved in spats, he'll just drive the car as fast as he can and won't care about what happens off-track.

It will be very interesting to see how Alonso reacts to this though (if indeed true). I personally don't think it will be a huge issue for him, 2007 was a long time ago and he's matured a lot since then, and he'll know exactly what to expect from Kimi and know he'll have to drive well to beat him (I think a lot of what got his back up about Hamilton was the fact he'd got himself into the mindset that as a rookie Lewis wouldn't be a threat and was then shocked when he proved to be rather better than he'd expected, whereas with Kimi he knows how good he is), plus with other strong contenders in other teams he'll know he'll have to get his head down and concentrate on beating them if he is to win that third title.

Part of me does wonder what the motive behind Ferrari signing Raikkonen would be. Is it a feeling on their side that Alonso's getting too big for his boots and that he doesn't call the shots at the team? Do Ferrari believe from experience that Kimi won't beat Alonso (they'll have the data from his first stint at the team) but is a much better option than Massa in cleaning up in the second car? Could it even be as a stopgap until Bianchi's ready to take over the second seat in a couple of years? It's definitely a strange one, although it will be fascinating to see how it plays out next season.
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Old 10-09-2013, 20:27
Nessun Dorma
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Looks like it is going to be inevitable.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24016050
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Old 10-09-2013, 21:38
Smiley433
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Course, that's assuming Kimi doesn't return the favour and send Alonso on a paid vacation and they keep Massa as his team-mate.
Massa has tweeted that he wont be at Ferrari next year, so it could be the Alonso and Raikkonen combination.

I wonder if Ferrari have decided they'd like to win the constructor's championship next year and if they get the driver's as well then that's a bonus.
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Old 10-09-2013, 21:40
uberman
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Seems pretty obvious, and sensible, that Webber won't be taking points off Vettel at this stage of the championship.

Once Vettel's got this championship sewn up, I can see him coming over all helpful and offering to let Webber win a race.

Funny thing is, Vettel seems rather arrogant and clumsy and Webber is kinda stubborn and hard-headed so I can see a rather bizarre situation occuring where Vettel leads into the last lap of a race, slows down in the last corner to let Webber through and Webber will slow down behind him and refuse to accept a "gifted" victory.
ha haa, now that ^ I'd like to see.

Another interesting (if unlikely) scenario would be: Vettel needs to win the last race to win the drivers championship, Webber is leading the race by far, Vettel is second, would Webber let him win?
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Old 10-09-2013, 22:09
Forza Ferrari
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Looks like kimi is going to Ferrari exciting times. I hope this is a signal of intent from the team for next year. LDM announced 2 billion to be spent on road car development over the next five years so the F1 programme should be lifted a level too.
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Old 10-09-2013, 22:32
Mystical123
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I still think that's a mistake. At least Hulkenberg will still get a fairly decent car next year. Can't help but feel a bit sorry for Massa though, I wonder will he go looking for a drive or follow Webber to pastures new?

Another interesting (if unlikely) scenario would be: Vettel needs to win the last race to win the drivers championship, Webber is leading the race by far, Vettel is second, would Webber let him win?
If it were me, I wouldn't let him! And I would hope Webber wouldn't either - who would want to win a championship by default?!
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Old 10-09-2013, 22:47
Pendragon579
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If it were me, I wouldn't let him! And I would hope Webber wouldn't either - who would want to win a championship by default?!
See Senna in 1990 and Schumacher in 1994 for answers to that one sadly
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Old 10-09-2013, 23:15
d'@ve
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Sorry in qualifying it is against the rules and illegal to slow the other cars down. This is called impeding or blocking we saw somebody get a penalty for it at the weekend although it wasn't intentional there is an actual obligation not to block faster cars during qualifying.
I as thinking more about race conditions tbh, though having a car between them in quali wouldn't automatically be illegal.

Whitmarsh was speaking tongue-in-cheek anyway.
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Old 10-09-2013, 23:22
bingoman
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Where will Massa go which team will sign for, I can see him in a Lotus or I can see driving for Williams but I think his Wages might be too high for Williams and I think Massa stayed a bit too long imo
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Old 10-09-2013, 23:57
dee_eff
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BBC News reporting Kimi to Ferrari - confirmed
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Old 11-09-2013, 00:07
Pendragon579
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BBC News reporting Kimi to Ferrari - confirmed
"Fernando, Kimi is faster than you. Do you understand?"
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Old 11-09-2013, 07:53
Assa2
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Poor Rob Smedley. The Rob & Philip show has been one of the best things about F1 the past few years. Assuming Rob stays at Ferrari he and Kimi should be an interesting combination, though!

"Kimi baby, stay cool... oh, you are!"
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Old 11-09-2013, 08:25
Forza Ferrari
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"Fernando, Kimi is faster than you. Do you understand?"
Yeah thats the point have somebody who can be faster than Alonso. Ferrari management will be less likely to team order Kimi out of the way as he won't only be fast at certain GP and then throw it in the barrier twice in a weekend at the same corner.
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Old 11-09-2013, 08:39
soulboy77
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I think Ferrari have been quite smart as they have contracted the only other available top F1 driver as a hedge against Alonso engineering a move away from them in the next couple of years. Alonso and Ferrari appear to be falling out of love with one another, going by the recent 'tiffs' in the media.
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Old 11-09-2013, 08:41
Forza Ferrari
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BBC News reporting Kimi to Ferrari - confirmed
They said on the breakfast news Kimi signed a one year deal with an option for 2015.
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Old 11-09-2013, 10:08
Forza Ferrari
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I think Ferrari have been quite smart as they have contracted the only other available top F1 driver as a hedge against Alonso engineering a move away from them in the next couple of years. Alonso and Ferrari appear to be falling out of love with one another, going by the recent 'tiffs' in the media.
I don't think it's necessary true that Alonso and Ferrari are moving apart. I think Alonso wants a better driver with him. There have been too many races where Alonso is getting on the podium and Masa is struggling to make the points. Even if Alonso get ahead of Vettel Vettel is all to often one place behind. Red Bull off days have been going unpunished and Alonso knows that costs him championships as much as anything.

Alonso won't want Kimi beating him but the main psychology factor will be wither Alonso thinks everything is above board. Kimi is very straightforward and so I think that will help things.

The main goal is to get Ferrari winning races consistently. The boys can have their pissing contest over the last few races then
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Old 11-09-2013, 10:47
ACU
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See, I'm not sure that Alonso would have as much of an issue with Raikkonen as he would with someone like Hamilton and Vettel. Yes Raikkonen will be much more of a test than Massa and will beat him on occasion but Kimi isn't someone who cares about the politics of the team and gets involved in spats, he'll just drive the car as fast as he can and won't care about what happens off-track.

It will be very interesting to see how Alonso reacts to this though (if indeed true). I personally don't think it will be a huge issue for him, 2007 was a long time ago and he's matured a lot since then, and he'll know exactly what to expect from Kimi and know he'll have to drive well to beat him (I think a lot of what got his back up about Hamilton was the fact he'd got himself into the mindset that as a rookie Lewis wouldn't be a threat and was then shocked when he proved to be rather better than he'd expected, whereas with Kimi he knows how good he is), plus with other strong contenders in other teams he'll know he'll have to get his head down and concentrate on beating them if he is to win that third title.

Part of me does wonder what the motive behind Ferrari signing Raikkonen would be. Is it a feeling on their side that Alonso's getting too big for his boots and that he doesn't call the shots at the team? Do Ferrari believe from experience that Kimi won't beat Alonso (they'll have the data from his first stint at the team) but is a much better option than Massa in cleaning up in the second car? Could it even be as a stopgap until Bianchi's ready to take over the second seat in a couple of years? It's definitely a strange one, although it will be fascinating to see how it plays out next season.
The issue Alonso will have with Kimi, is that Kimi will take points of him. That is all, from a personal point of view, all with be ok. Massa wasnt allowed to take points of Alonso, Kimi will be allowed. Thus making it harder for Alonso to win the title. If Kimi is infront of Alonso in the drivers title, you can see Alonso getting more and more frustrated which he will take out on the team (in terms of blaming the team for not producing a car capable of beating RBR), not Kimi.
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Old 11-09-2013, 12:29
mungobrush
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The issue Alonso will have with Kimi, is that Kimi will take points of him. That is all, from a personal point of view, all with be ok. Massa wasnt allowed to take points of Alonso, Kimi will be allowed. Thus making it harder for Alonso to win the title. If Kimi is infront of Alonso in the drivers title, you can see Alonso getting more and more frustrated which he will take out on the team (in terms of blaming the team for not producing a car capable of beating RBR), not Kimi.
Does anyone seriously imagine that Kimi will give Alonso a tow during qualifying and then dutifully move over for him?
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Old 11-09-2013, 12:40
Si_Crewe
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Massa has tweeted that he wont be at Ferrari next year, so it could be the Alonso and Raikkonen combination.

I wonder if Ferrari have decided they'd like to win the constructor's championship next year and if they get the driver's as well then that's a bonus.
It's kind of a smart move by Ferrari.

What they're doing is, effectively, telling their drivers "You're going to have to drive your socks off if you want to win a WDC" and, in the mean time, as they're both fighting with each other, they should rack up the maximum possible points for the team, thus ensuring a constructors title.

Interestingly, if that's the case it does kinda signal a change in philosophy at Ferrari.
Seems like they always took the view that the WDC was title they wanted to win but now, perhaps, they've decided that they just want to win something and if the drivers are fighting for points they might, hopefully, grab a constructors title.

Where will Massa go which team will sign for, I can see him in a Lotus or I can see driving for Williams but I think his Wages might be too high for Williams and I think Massa stayed a bit too long imo
I'd like to see Massa leading a team for a change, even if that means he ended up at Sauber, ForceIndia or Torro Rosso.

Lotus is probably the best seat for him but he's spent so long doing what he's told that I fear his ego might not withstand the competition that Grosjean (who's pretty quick when he's not crashing) could give him.

I know the clock's ticking on Massa's career but I'd say that, ideally, he could do with a year or two in a smaller team, get used to asserting his authority again and then move to somewhere like McLaren, RBR or Lotus for a final grab at a title.

Oh and, if they stay true to form, Williams would be unlikely. They seem to have an official policy of just flat-out refusing to hire well-known drivers these days.

Poor Rob Smedley. The Rob & Philip show has been one of the best things about F1 the past few years. Assuming Rob stays at Ferrari he and Kimi should be an interesting combination, though!

"Kimi baby, stay cool... oh, you are!"
I can see that not working out very well at all, unless Smedley changes his attitude.

Can you imagine the sort of reply he'll get if he tries to give Kimi the same sort of "encouragement" he's famous for giving to Massa?

I think Ferrari have been quite smart as they have contracted the only other available top F1 driver as a hedge against Alonso engineering a move away from them in the next couple of years. Alonso and Ferrari appear to be falling out of love with one another, going by the recent 'tiffs' in the media.
As above, I think part of the reasoning here is to stop the team from revolving around Alonso, make him realise he needs to fight for a WDC and, in the process, they'll probably rack up a constructors title between them.

Course, OTOH, Kimi can be pretty fickle about car set-up (as demonstrated by all the monkeying around with steering racks and spending all the money to extend the wheelbase by 10cm, for no apparent gain, to make Kimi feel better) so if the Ferrari doesn't suit him he might not appreciate any lack of flexibility by the team.
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Old 11-09-2013, 12:48
Forza Ferrari
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Does anyone seriously imagine that Kimi will give Alonso a tow during qualifying and then dutifully move over for him?
Well Ferrari were aiming to run the cars 3.5s apart so the car in front isn't getting slowed down it just isn't getting a tow. If the cars are told to run in this manner then they will have to do it. I would imagine that Kimi will want swapses.

Everybody seems to forget that if Ferrari are signing Kimi it will not be to tow Alonso at one GP a year.

Ferrari will expect race wins from Kimi so will Alonso.

Any way its now going to be really funny if it is Hulkenburgh who is signed.
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Old 11-09-2013, 12:57
Forza Ferrari
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I wonder if Ferrari have decided they'd like to win the constructor's championship next year and if they get the driver's as well then that's a bonus.
Good angle the tactical timing would be that Red Bull signing Riccardo have watered down their driver pairing and become a one car team so Ferrari switch the strategies on them. Bold move from the president.
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Old 11-09-2013, 13:17
Forza Ferrari
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It's confirmed.
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Old 11-09-2013, 13:22
Si_Crewe
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Good angle the tactical timing would be that Red Bull signing Riccardo have watered down their driver pairing and become a one car team so Ferrari switch the strategies on them. Bold move from the president.
Dunno about that.

Seems like they've always preferred to pursue the WDC but now they've just given up and decided that if they have two drivers fighting each other it should get them a constructors title, if nothing else.
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Old 11-09-2013, 13:23
Forza Ferrari
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Two year Ferrari deal for Kimi NH informed his services were not required and a short statement made by Ferrari this morning confirming Kimi.

Not read the statement yet.
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Old 11-09-2013, 13:27
Forza Ferrari
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Dunno about that.

Seems like they've always preferred to pursue the WDC but now they've just given up and decided that if they have two drivers fighting each other it should get them a constructors title, if nothing else.
I don't realy see how having two of the best drivers can really be said to have written off winning a WDC.

There is a risk to the strategy but there is always more than one possible out come. Having two good drivers one likely outcome is that one of them wins the WDC for you.
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